Flow chart demonstrating flaws in the rape reporting process

[Jotaux]

Additionally, I think during the court proceedings the accused and the accuser need not be in the same room at the same time; I'm okay with the idea that the victim's examination and cross-examination could happen with the accused being held in a temporary holding room in the courthouse while the victim's testimony is taken and cross-examination performed.

As far as I know you have the right to face your accuser.

[dethmourne]

As far as I know you have the right to face your accuser.

This is an interesting situation where the right of the accuser and the right of the accused intersect in an odd fashion. We're not supposed to inflict cruel and unusual punishment on anyone, but in many cases this is exactly what enforcing this right of the accused does to the accuser.

I'm not saying there's an easy solution to all of this, I'm just saying that both extremes of the argument are useless and instead we need to try to find ways to prevent false accusations while making it less traumatic to the victim of actual rape to report the crime.

[Elim Garak]

If we remove these "flaws" the due process will be like this:
Victim: "He raped me!"
Police: "We got him! He's going to jail."

[Deleted]

It is unfortunate, many of these flaws however exist because without them we have lots of other issues.

Basically. Lots of these aren't "flaws", they're just by-products of treating the accused fairly. I'm sure whoever put this chart together, considering how dishonestly they frame some of the "flaws", would prefer a flow-chart more like:

Accusation is made -----> Accused is jailed for life.

Yeah, you have to give evidence and maintain some credibility as a victim when it comes to a he-said/she-said crime like rape. Refusing rape kits, giving different stories every time, or not wanting to be cross-examined when you are the person making a claim is going to hurt that credibility.

[Hiricine]

A ton of those "flaws" are part of the "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy that any intelligent person has.

There is a reason that you had stuff like chaperones for dates, women not being alone with a man she met recently, being home by a certain hour, its because unless there is clear cut physical evidence to contradict the argument there is not a SINGLE rapist that should be convicted on the basis of victim testimony alone.

Also the rights of the accused in any just legal system are MORE important than the rights of the accuser, should there be a conflict. If you don't respect the rights of the accused, you no longer have a legal system and instead of a witch hunt.

[Gheld]

Most of the flaws are actually called due process.

- - - Updated - - -

If we remove these "flaws" the due process will be like this:
Victim: "He raped me!"
Police: "We got him! He's going to jail."

Yeah. Everybody who is all for dismantling due process to make securing a rape conviction based on heresay possible raped me.

[Canpinter]

oh ya im totally paranoid for thinking people want to erode due process to get more rape convictions, no evidence of that happening here.

[Sunseeker]

Some of these flaws are just elements of a normal criminal justice system. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Big surprise.

[Sesshou]

This is an interesting situation where the right of the accuser and the right of the accused intersect in an odd fashion. We're not supposed to inflict cruel and unusual punishment on anyone, but in many cases this is exactly what enforcing this right of the accused does to the accuser.

I'm not saying there's an easy solution to all of this, I'm just saying that both extremes of the argument are useless and instead we need to try to find ways to prevent false accusations while making it less traumatic to the victim of actual rape to report the crime.

Sorry, but the person with essentially their life at stake gets to be put first. I realize rape isn't punishable by death or a life sentence, but good luck doing much when you get out of prison as a convicted rapist.

Aside from the right to confront the accuser, forcing the defendant to leave the room makes him look guilty. I can't imagine how hard it must be to go through something like that, but the entire justice system is built on the idea that you are innocent until proven guilty.

[dethmourne]

Sorry, but the person with essentially their life at stake gets to be put first. I realize rape isn't punishable by death or a life sentence, but good luck doing much when you get out of prison as a convicted rapist.

Aside from the right to confront the accuser, forcing the defendant to leave the room makes him look guilty. I can't imagine how hard it must be to go through something like that, but the entire justice system is built on the idea that you are innocent until proven guilty.

Because the person who is improperly accused of false accusation isn't done with? I bet you'll find suicide is surprisingly common for rape victims who have not had their rapist convicted; just a guess, as I'm not sure who collects those statistics currently.

[AndaliteBandit]

I think the victim should be entitled to legal representation to join them when discussing their complaint to the police.

I agree with this, does anyone actually take issue with that one?

[Steve French]

So in other words(non-chart form) women can't just point at the bad man and make him disappear without any questions asked? Sounds absolutely terrible, like some sort of rape culture.

[Schmeebs]

Additionally, I think during the court proceedings the accused and the accuser need not be in the same room at the same time; I'm okay with the idea that the victim's examination and cross-examination could happen with the accused being held in a temporary holding room in the courthouse while the victim's testimony is taken and cross-examination performed.

Police also need to be aware of certain documented cases where a "changing story" has been verified to be a result of the rape trauma leading victims to not be able to properly detail their situation on the first or even third retelling, the story changing each time, but the rape being later proven via extraneous means.

Right to face your accuser is kinda important.

[Utinil]

I think the victim should be entitled to legal representation to join them when discussing their complaint to the police.

Please read it again, here I will quote the "flaw"

"FLAW Victims can't bring someone from a sexual assault support centre into interviews with them for support. "In 19 years I've never seen an officer agree to allow a support person into the room," said Marriner."

It is talking about not allowing councilor/friend/therapist/emotional support individual in with them. It isn't talking about legal representation.

[AndaliteBandit]

It is talking about not allowing councilor/friend/therapist/emotional support individual in with them. It isn't talking about legal representation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that claimants are interviewed as witnesses, and thus aren't entitled to legal representation when being interviewed. They only have the right to refuse to say anything, which wouldn't be very good for their case.

[Schmeebs]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that claimants are interviewed as witnesses, and thus aren't entitled to legal representation when being interviewed. They only have the right to refuse to say anything, which wouldn't be very good for their case.

They aren't entitled, but that doesn't mean they are prohibited. Personally, I would never give testimony to a Police officer without some sort of legal counsel present, because I wouldn't want to accidentally incriminate myself for the crime they are pursuing, or any other crime.


You can't just file a police report, then wash your hands of it and expect it to be done with, yes it sucks that a victim will have to relive a terrible event, but its no different than witnesses for other crimes. You can't just say something happened, that isn't how the legal system works. The legal system doesn't give a fuck about your feelings.

[TheRickyB]

Besides the obvious flaw of due process, im am glad to know Canada only has Female Rape Victims. because thats the flaw i see instantly, this is only for women victims of rape at the hands of a man. not male rape victims nor Female Abusers.

[Revik]

Better to let 10 rapist go free than to frame an innocent man.

[Buckeyenut88]

If this is a forbidden topic, go ahead and delete it.

Investigators went over the rape reporting process in Ottawa and found what they consider flaws.

If you had a daughter who wanted to report a rape, the process looks pretty horrible.

Why the flow chart just assume the rape victim is a "she"? Men/boys/sons are victims of sexual assaults too.

[Hemak]

To Kill a Mockingbird
Tom Robinson: Looks like she didn't have nobody to help her. I felt right sorry for her. She seemed...
Prosecutor: You felt sorry for her? A white woman? You felt sorry for her?

Tom Robinson: I can't use my left hand at all. I got it caught in a cotton gin when I was twelve years old. All my muscles were tore loose.

[testifying]
Tom Robinson: Well, I said I best be goin', I couldn't do nothin' for her, an' she said, oh, yes I could. An' I asked her what, and she said to jus' step on the chair yonder an' git that box down from on top of the chifforobe. So I done like she told me, and I was reachin' when the next thing I know she... grabbed me aroun' the legs.
[a murmur erupts in the courthouse]
Tom Robinson: She scared me so bad I hopped down an' turned the chair over. That was the only thing, only furniture 'sturbed in the room, Mr. Finch, I swear, when I left it... Mr. Finch, I got down off the chair, and I turned around an' she sorta jumped on me. She hugged me aroun' the waist. She reached up an' kissed me on the face. She said she'd never kissed a grown man before an' she might as well kiss me. She says for me to kiss her back.
[Tom shakes his head, re-living the ordeal with his eyes half-closed]
Tom Robinson: And I said, Miss Mayella, let me outta here, an' I tried to run. Mr. Ewell cussed at her from the window and said he's gonna kill her.

Atticus Finch: Did you rape Mayella Ewell?
Tom Robinson: I did not, sir.
Atticus Finch: Did you harm her in any way?
Tom Robinson: I did not.