Now I know why D3 influences WoW so much.

[Deleted]

No they don't.

I agree that a lot of people just go into HC "cakewalk mode" and die for the most inane stuff. It doesn't mean that HC are more skilled - just that non skilled players simply cannot play HC since it's designed that way. Doesn't mean that SC players are baseline worse, but only that most if not all bad players are on SC.

Pick a top notch HC player and a same level SC player and the skill is on par between the two. In actually challenging content (high GR) everything will oneshot you if not dealt with it properly and it doesn't have anything to do with the game mode. In SC you fail the GR, in HC you lose the char (and fail the GR). HC is just more punishing for your fails, but its not tied to the game difficulty.

Well it is tied to difficulty, you need to master your difficulty and never die in it.
So if you could drive a car where you can't die. So if you crash here and there are you better driver than pro racer that never crashed but goes as fast?

HC players know how to play and know what difficulty they can play. I don't have problem with dying, i have problem with my gear not being good enough because i don't grind that much.

More punishing for your failure = higher difficulty

It's like those dancing games where you just said sure i got 1000 points in 5 minute song because i failed a lot but im good as you because you also got 1000 points in 2 minute song where you got perfect combo.

The only thing you've got going is that i can't put moderators to my ignore list for some reason. Because only person who says HC is same as SC is one who never properly played HC.

In HC you don't have luck, you can't just zerg 1000 runs and try to not die in one and get lucky where mobs don't get in weird position where it's impossible to avoid death. In HC you play with your only life.

[thilicen]

Take features that work well and actively improved a game beyond recognition and implement them in another to make that one better. Normal people would say "Hey, that might just work out well". The average MMO-champ bitchkid: "Omfg lazy ass blizzard never does anything right waaaaah"

[Coldkil]

Well, if your answer is to just cover your ears and go "LALALALA I DON'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE", feel free to do so.

I get and i agree fully with your points. However, not dying in HC is not difficult, until again we're talking about GR. I'm not saying that HC hasn't more risk tied to it and you definitely have to stay on your toes all the time to avoid losing your character. I also agree that SC is way more lenient on that since dying is not a penalty at all and you can continue going forward again and again.

Anyway, GR92 is the same on both modes. Same monsters, same damage, same modifiers and so on. Do you have to be extra careful on HC? Sure. It's not skill anyway - D3 is hardly a difficult game only thing it has is infinetely scaling dungoens where monsters hit harder and have more hp. Mechanics don't change at all at any level, only thing that changes is that you got enough gear/paddede enough paragons to survive better.

The skill/challenge stays in pushing higher and higher GR with the same gear and relatively similar paragon. And this doesn't change a bit between the two modes. Kudos to you for being a such proficient HC player and all, but i see you on the exact same place of the highly rated SC players.

[Aleax]

I will take the Crusader from Diablo in WoW anytime of the days.

A melee, tank, dps, with an awesome shield, and not a support by any means. He does have supportive (and self-healing) tools, but no more than the other classes in Diablo. WoW paladins are 100% supportive by concept, the crusader would need to be another class. Probably tied to paladin Orders though, much like the Silver Hand is basically the paladin, but a new order. Food for thought...

As for the other things from Diablo 3, paragons, endless grinding, infinite scaling, not my taste for WoW, I think this should never be implemented in WoW and stay in the niche of Diablo.

[Orangetai420]

Let's not take all credit away from Jay, as easy as that is to do.

He did help create the ground floor including the combat engine which is undoubtably the best one the ARPG genre has ever had. Sure most of what he did to the game was terrible, but he did do some great stuff as well.

Let's also not defend Jay too much... D3 was a shit show at launch.

[Deleted]

If it's all the same then why not many people dare to play HC? No balls no skill.

[Orange Joe]

If it's all the same then why not many people dare to play HC? No balls no skill.

Because most people find it pointless to start over just because of a death.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

If it's all the same then why not many people dare to play HC? No balls no skill.

Because it's not worth it to many people. It's more punishing then actually difficult. At least with Dark Souls when you die you can still continue on.

[Tojara]

Tried hardcore for the first time ever this season, and I can say it's not anymore difficult, you just play a lot differently. Some builds operate differently, you don't take risks and for the most part, you play like a giant pussy. Paragon level 600 right now in HC and done 70 solo, and I haven't died yet.

I mean lets be real, how many players don't run cheat death, and how many classes don't have a cheat death type of ability in Diablo now? I think none? How I play HC, and I'm sure every single person who plays it plays it the same. Generally you use more defensive gems and builds (or simply more), you also take your cheat death. How do you approach things? Simple. With all those things in mind, play HC like you play SC until your cheat death procs, then proceed to be a giant pussy for a minute. I've had my cheat death proc like 10 times, and 8 of those times I just retreated back to town and/or sat in a place I couldn't get hit by. The other 2 times I knew what the affixes were on mobs and decided to just play ultra safe for that minute.

I mean it's fun and gets the heart rate going when you're doing bosses that lock you into their rooms, but that's about it. We freshly got our 6 piece this season in 4 hours and I watched my friend die on greed because we got 'greedy' trying to do TX immediately with our first puzzle ring. Simply put you approach the game differently in multiple ways and you just play safer. You don't push until you're ready, and there are so few instances in the game that lock you into decisions or dangerous territories if you do indeed tend to push. I knew the only thing that would get my heart rate going to be the rift guardian, mostly because they can teleport to you, and if you spawn it really far away from an exit/entrance you can realistically die. All of that can be avoided with planning though if you do it right.

I'll probably go back to SC after this seasons experiment because to me, it just made the game more enjoyable. Only a few instances thus far in HC produced any kind of excitement, because honestly going towards damage is far more fun in game genres like this than just being too safe and defensive. In SC you just always push as hard as you can until you get to a barrier, then you grind more. HC is essentially the same thing, but you don't know what the barrier is because it's you constantly poking at it taking a cautious approach. Just not as fun IMO.

[Deleted]

Take features that work well and actively improved a game beyond recognition and implement them in another to make that one better. Normal people would say "Hey, that might just work out well". The average MMO-champ bitchkid: "Omfg lazy ass blizzard never does anything right waaaaah"

The important question is always - why are you doing this?

Do you want that the same people play both of your games and possibly risk to alienate some part of the playerbase of your MMO so they quit and don't play any of your games? Then go ahead.

Do you want to have 2 distinct games so you can have overall more people playing than in the case of 2 similar games? Then don't do it.

I have played D1 and D2 quite obsessively for some years. D3 held my interest for exact 3 weeks. I want WoW to stay different from D3, because it will possibly ruin WoW. And if it will ruin WoW, then Blizzard will lose a premium customer, because I will surely not put my money into a game I don't like anymore.

[Aleax]

The important question is always - why are you doing this?

Do you want that the same people play both of your games and possibly risk to alienate some part of the playerbase of your MMO so they quit and don't play any of your games? Then go ahead.

Do you want to have 2 distinct games so you can have overall more people playing than in the case of 2 similar games? Then don't do it.

I have played D1 and D2 quite obsessively for some years. D3 held my interest for exact 3 weeks. I want WoW to stay different from D3, because it will possibly ruin WoW. And if it will ruin WoW, then Blizzard will lose a premium customer, because I will surely not put my money into a game I don't like anymore.

Same here. I played to Diablo 3 quite a bit, I am coming back to WoW, and if WoW starts to be like Diablo, like that huge grinding, well not for me

[Bigbazz]

Well it is tied to difficulty, you need to master your difficulty and never die in it.
So if you could drive a car where you can't die. So if you crash here and there are you better driver than pro racer that never crashed but goes as fast?

HC players know how to play and know what difficulty they can play. I don't have problem with dying, i have problem with my gear not being good enough because i don't grind that much.

More punishing for your failure = higher difficulty

It's like those dancing games where you just said sure i got 1000 points in 5 minute song because i failed a lot but im good as you because you also got 1000 points in 2 minute song where you got perfect combo.

The only thing you've got going is that i can't put moderators to my ignore list for some reason. Because only person who says HC is same as SC is one who never properly played HC.

In HC you don't have luck, you can't just zerg 1000 runs and try to not die in one and get lucky where mobs don't get in weird position where it's impossible to avoid death. In HC you play with your only life.

Your analogy doesn't work with racing drivers. It's not about skill but about the risk vs reward, if you put a gravel trap on the exit of a corner (which would beach the car and end ones race) the driver will take much more caution and make much more effort in order to stay within the boundries, if you put a tarmac run off then the driver will take more risks in order to possibly find more speed and explore the limits further because he knows there is no real consequence to failing, he can drive right back on the track... The best drivers will always try to push the limits, failing when there is a safety net doesn't mean that the same will happen if the safety net is removed, they will change their approach accordingly.

The same is true in hardcore, it's not so much about skill but about guaging risk vs reward, in HC many players avoid risk entirely and many players take a much longer path of progression in order to be safe, while SC players progress faster/further because they can afford to take more risks without having to pay for them when they go wrong.

[srathgar]

If the representation of the hardcore mode community is largely like Fauier represents it, good riddance, it can burn for all i care Elitism at its worst, faux elitism even.

Like, sure its difficult to avoid stuff, i know i fail at doing it a lot myself, dying to dumb things. Does that make me a worse player? Prolly, i dont care enough about diablo to wanna be the very best at it.

That said, is it harder to play on hardcore? No, it is a different playstyle, and it caters to a (this is my opinion) massochistic audience, that loves the feel of death meaning loosing everything. Now, this may come off as weird, and it may be proven wrong aswell, but no man sky seems to take an approach similar to hardcore with dying in space=you loose your spaceship and you have to start over. That said i am in love with the concept in that game, because it atleast lets me start from where i ended up and not neccesarely strips me of everything i have. I guess in diablo terms it would strip me of my equipment, which would suck, but it would not force me to start lvling from 0-70 again.

Now, to get a bit back to hardcore, harsher punishment does not equal a more difficult game, it simply means you play it differently. Arguing anything else is something that can only spawn from some need to feel superior to others.

[Heffladin]

I think the problems with WoW lending too much from Diablo 3 is that people have already played it, and thus are very familiar, maybe even burnt out on that kind of gameplay, so seeing these things in WoW might not ... excite those players to a huge extent, I know I am not too excited about it, moreso cautiously optimistic. The surprise and "new and shiny" factor may play a big part of how a returning player views the new expansion. All in all just looking at the expansion it looks like a "best of" expansion in terms of fanservice. Just my 5 cents.

[Deleted]

I like the type of skill system i Diablo 3 and would probably like something similair in WoW. The idea of having to prioratize which skills you want to be able to use based on your playstyle and what type of gear you have is awesome imo, while I feel like WoW have less flexibility regarding the choises regarding specs and skills. There is a spec which is best for AoE/Tank/whatever, and only a couple of skills is optional. The stats on the gear also feels pretty bland. Higher is better no matter what, while in D3 for some specs you want cooldown reduction, or attackspeed, or maybe a combination of both etc.

I do however not really think that these changes could be implemented in WoW because everything is already so streamlined to fit together that changing the skill system would require you to also change every stat-system too, and many many more things. If this wouldn't make everything chaotic it would at least make everything really unbalanced. If they someday make a new MMO though...

[Tradu]

I don't get why people get so upset about it. I mean they own D3. Why not take some successful points from the game and incorporate them into wow? Oh yeah, people fear and loath change.

Because they're different games, which means when I want D3 gameplay I play D3. That doesn't mean I want D3 gameplay in WoW, because I play WoW for WoW gameplay

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I like my HC games clean thank you. There are leechers sure, but they are VERY VERY easily spotted, they just stand around and leech, in HC they die from following in shitty gear so they get kicked or we pull shitload of stuff on them and kick them if they don't die/leave. Last time i tried playing SC i tried to get boosted and guy claiming that can boost me died more times than my lvl 0 with no gear char. I mean come on, if this is SC i don't care one bit for that. Let noobs stay in their easy mode and leave us alone, thank you.

BTW I hate so much that blizzard require players to lvl 70 HC, they just spam our boost channels and then annoy us in our games.

As somebody who is 100% softcore subhuman filth, I agree. That requirement is fucking retarded and I've given Blizzard my feedback on it(worded more politely even if it doesn't deserve it) with each season it's been in.

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BTW, i level my 70 HC char by myslef as i hate aswell people asking for a lvl 70 boost all the time. ffs it's not like it's difficult or takes that huge amount of time.

Sure, it might not take "long", but it's also not an enjoyable experience(in fact, it's something I've actively opted out of by playing SC, so being forced into it for the season journey is pretty shitty)

[Deleted]

Different genres.

[Nfinitii]

I think it's smart to steal from as many sources as possible "steal from one source is plagiarism, steal from many sources is research". D3 is very good about replayability, which wow struggles in.

[Tradu]

I think it's smart to steal from as many sources as possible "steal from one source is plagiarism, steal from many sources is research". D3 is very good about replayability, which wow struggles in.

Replayability for a few weeks at a time, sure.

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But it's still WoW gameplay.

Grinding pigs out in the open world to get stupidly powerful world drop legendaries is not part of what WoW has ever been in the time I've played it, so no.

[McLovenIt]

Make games that are fun to play. D&D and Magic have been around for decades. Diablo defined adventure games on PC. WoW defined MMO's. I would even argue, that even now, Heroes is defining MOBA's.

I'm pretty sure it was Dota, and then League who already Definded MOBA's.....Heroes has just followed the popularity of that Genre....it's a wonderful game, but it's not exactly a "defining" title.