Return to the old system of progression through raid tiers?

[SaucyThighs]

Hey, I was wondering if you all think it might be a good idea for WoW to return to the raiding/gearing model where we did not have all of these catch-up mechanisms that essentially squish everyone into the most 'current' raid tier. For a number of expansions now, each major content patch would introduce basically trivial ways to get rewards on par with the previous raid tier so everyone (non-raiders alike) could progress and see the newest content.

It makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to create content that only a very small portion of the player base will get a chance to see, but this seems to be one of the biggest problems facing the state of WoW to me. It significantly impacts the longevity of the expansion, especially for that majority of players that catch up mechanisms are aimed at helping, and it's straight up counter-productive to the aim of getting players to see content. For players that wouldn't play enough WoW to see that last-tier end content, they just end up missing out on the earlier tiers instead for lack of any need to go in there. It also really diminishes the sense of growth and achievement when everything gets normalized after every patch.

Some other points:

It mitigates the bore of running through all the various difficulties of a particular raid a bit.

Alts could have catch-up mechanisms through account based benefits.

Non-raiders don't need to be left out. Instead of giving out full sets of epic gear for a couple weeks of Tanaan Jungle, we have the Legion world quest system and revamped professions as places where time and skill could be rewarded appropriately. Of course there are also challenge mode dungeons.

The previous systems seem to provide players with what LFR was supposed to but generally could not -- a rewarding experience for those who can't commit to a raid schedule or intense PvP sessions, so maybe we should get rid of LFR while we are at it because it does harm to RPG experience on a basic level. (I hope this one isn't too much of a monkey wrench into the discussion).

Guilds probably couldn't support the separation of players into various tiers right now. They should do some genuine sever merges across most servers (not cross-realm), probably cutting down to half or fewer of the current number of servers.

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I have a hard time seeing how this wouldn't benefit almost everyone. The excessive "gamey-ness" of WoW in recent times through queues, the lack of RPG feel, and shortening longevity of expansions seem to be among the biggest problems the game faces right now. I'm not trying to be another Vanila/TBC activist, many aspects of the game have improved dramatically (I think the class and raid encounter designs are way more fun now), but we can have the best of both worlds.

[Flurryfang]

Yes! Go back to old TBC system of doing raiding. Release more then a single raid each tier so that we can have some progression. I miss the feeling of killing a end raid boss, and knowing, that i am about to jump to a new raid the next day. The day i jumped from Grull's lair to SSC was an amazing day I would love to experience that emotional event once more

So.... GO Go for the 2-3 raids in every tier!

[primalmatter]

Can't exist with the current community. They are rotten to the core. The I want it daddy, I want it now!!! crowd would ruin it.

[Summer]

That may have worked in TBC when the game was new, sub numbers were going up and there were masses of new eager players for guilds to recruit from.

It would not work so well now when sub numbers are going down and guilds are already locked in a survival battle for new recruits. Not being able to gear returning players quickly etc. would make life harder for no reason. Mega servers or no.

And quite frankly I don't see what would be so great about someone returning to the game right now being forced to start in Highmaul :P

[SoulSoBreezy]

Hey, I was wondering if you all think it might be a good idea for WoW to return to the raiding/gearing model where we did not have all of these catch-up mechanisms that essentially squish everyone into the most 'current' raid tier. For a number of expansions now, each major content patch would introduce basically trivial ways to get rewards on par with the previous raid tier so everyone (non-raiders alike) could progress and see the newest content.

It makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to create content that only a very small portion of the player base will get a chance to see, but this seems to be one of the biggest problems facing the state of WoW to me. It significantly impacts the longevity of the expansion, especially for that majority of players that catch up mechanisms are aimed at helping, and it's straight up counter-productive to the aim of getting players to see content. For players that wouldn't play enough WoW to see that last-tier end content, they just end up missing out on the earlier tiers instead for lack of any need to go in there. It also really diminishes the sense of growth and achievement when everything gets normalized after every patch.

Some other points:

It mitigates the bore of running through all the various difficulties of a particular raid a bit.

Alts could have catch-up mechanisms through account based benefits.

Non-raiders don't need to be left out. Instead of giving out full sets of epic gear for a couple weeks of Tanaan Jungle, we have the Legion world quest system and revamped professions as places where time and skill could be rewarded appropriately. Of course there are also challenge mode dungeons.

The previous systems seem to provide players with what LFR was supposed to but generally could not -- a rewarding experience for those who can't commit to a raid schedule or intense PvP sessions, so maybe we should get rid of LFR while we are at it because it does harm to RPG experience on a basic level. (I hope this one isn't too much of a monkey wrench into the discussion).

Guilds probably couldn't support the separation of players into various tiers right now. They should do some genuine sever merges across most servers (not cross-realm), probably cutting down to half or fewer of the current number of servers.

---

I have a hard time seeing how this wouldn't benefit almost everyone. The excessive "gamey-ness" of WoW in recent times through queues, the lack of RPG feel, and shortening longevity of expansions seem to be among the biggest problems the game faces right now. I'm not trying to be another Vanila/TBC activist, many aspects of the game have improved dramatically (I think the class and raid encounter designs are way more fun now), but we can have the best of both worlds.

Once upon a time in BC, there were two kinds of raid groups:
1. The progressing guild
2. The group/guild that the progressing guild poached from

This exists now but to a lesser extent, but back then it wasn't very fun being in the second group. When there were no catchups available, all players could really do was struggle in kara (or ZA) to build numbers for the later raids, but attrition was absolutely awful. Players could only wait so long before getting lured by newer purples.

[Pieterman]

I'd support it, but I can already smell the Sunwell/Naxxramas arguments.

I think it's much better game design to progress through an expansion rather than through a patch. How many people that joined WoD later will get to see BRF or Highmaul? And I don't mean farming LFR for orange coins. Only those that go out of their way to see it.

[Drpizka]

Yes! Go back to old TBC system of doing raiding. Release more then a single raid each tier so that we can have some progression. I miss the feeling of killing a end raid boss, and knowing, that i am about to jump to a new raid the next day. The day i jumped from Grull's lair to SSC was an amazing day I would love to experience that emotional event once more

So.... GO Go for the 2-3 raids in every tier!

This!!!

yes please, for me too!