Yogg-Saron hilarity thread

[Nikkaszal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone...e_hearthstone/

I'm pretty sure Yogg-Saron is getting competitively banned in the very near future.

There was a lot of variance in the past in terms of what would come out of Piloted Shredder ( Doomsayer was a fan favorite), but the average was always a minion with 3 dmg and 2 hp. There is just no acceptable average with Yogg Saron, specially in an <10 spells scenario at competitive level.

And this card will affect HS's Standard format for another year and a half. It should be a straight to Wild card.

Banned?

Most people in tournaments would be happy to see Yogg in their opponent's deck, because it is completely unreliable and more often than not is a detriment to the person playing it, due to the full turn invested late game. Yogg is 100% an "I am about to lose, lets see if this gives me a second chance" card, nothing more, and because tournament decks favour reliability and stability over RNG it will never be a strong tournament play.

For every time something like that happens, there are four times where Yogg fucks its own player.

[apepi]

Banned?

Most people in tournaments would be happy to see Yogg in their opponent's deck, because it is completely unreliable and more often than not is a detriment to the person playing it, due to the full turn invested late game. Yogg is 100% an "I am about to lose, lets see if this gives me a second chance" card, nothing more, and because tournament decks favour reliability and stability over RNG it will never be a strong tournament play.

For every time something like that happens, there are four times where Yogg fucks its own player.

Honestly Yogg is not the worst. You just need to know when to play it. Don't play it when you have a board, don't play it when you have no cards, don't play it when you have a full hand. You can minimize the damage it can do to you.

I was surprised how much people were actually using it in the EU and US qualifiers(?), most Druid decks had it. I even saw some mages using it.

[Twoddle]

Banned? On the contrary there was a tournament yesterday where it was compulsory to put Yogg in every single deck.

[Deleted]

Banned?

Most people in tournaments would be happy to see Yogg in their opponent's deck, because it is completely unreliable and more often than not is a detriment to the person playing it, due to the full turn invested late game. Yogg is 100% an "I am about to lose, lets see if this gives me a second chance" card, nothing more, and because tournament decks favour reliability and stability over RNG it will never be a strong tournament play.

For every time something like that happens, there are four times where Yogg fucks its own player.

Shockingly, you don't have to play the Yogg, if you are already winning. Also, Yogg is overwhelmingly positive when 10+ spells are cast. People are not happy to see Yogg in their opponents decks, because its a card you cannot counter, and its seen as a card you need to include because no other card in the game has this level of power.

The deck that plays it most(Token Druid) but also Tempo Mage have other win conditions. Its not like my opponent that has Yogg in his deck is only going to win if he plays that Yogg. As for the second chance effect, if there was a 10 mana: this card automatically wins the game if on a 100 roll you roll above 75 that card should also be banned in competitive.

Some sort of flash and RNG is expected in hearthstone.This is a card game with inherent card draw rng and random effects on top of that. Hell, we had Sniper Rag deciding games since beta. But I never played a Ragnaros that did 32 damage to my opponents face in a turn because he rolled a 1/8 . I'm not saying Yogg should be banned from all play, but if that card decides the winner at Blizzcon it will be a shitshow.

[Taalyn]

You counter Yogg by winning before turn 10. Yogg has an equal chance of dealing 32 damage to the opponent as he does to yourself.

[Deleted]

You counter Yogg by winning before turn 10. Yogg has an equal chance of dealing 32 damage to the opponent as he does to yourself.

The warlock in that finals to Blizzcon "died" on his turn 6.

[Simulacrum]

Banned?

Most people in tournaments would be happy to see Yogg in their opponent's deck, because it is completely unreliable and more often than not is a detriment to the person playing it, due to the full turn invested late game. Yogg is 100% an "I am about to lose, lets see if this gives me a second chance" card, nothing more, and because tournament decks favour reliability and stability over RNG it will never be a strong tournament play.

For every time something like that happens, there are four times where Yogg fucks its own player.

1) no they aren't and no it isn't
2) no it isn't and lol
3) no there aren't

you may as well be saying that nobody should play shredder because sometimes you'll be winning and it'll die and you'll get doomsayer out of it, using that one negative quality to outshine all its positive qualities, which for yogg are astronomically more outrageous and gamechanging than they ever were for the shredder. yogg is a full turn investment? are you joking? the guy can play a dozen turns and half a deck worth of cards out in your favour in just one turn. the guy conjures tempo and value out of nowhere like he's a third player that got to save all his cards and mana that game to play it all out in one turn. no other card or combination of cards is (in the situations where you'd play this) a better investment of 10 mana, or anywhere close to as extreme a power play as this card. it easily turns 100% unwinnable games into 50%+ wins with not even good RNG, if it doesn't just straight win you the game that turn.

You counter Yogg by winning before turn 10. Yogg has an equal chance of dealing 32 damage to the opponent as he does to yourself.

you don't play yogg to do 32 damage to the opponent, I would've thought obviously, or yourself for that matter. you play him to do the opposite of that.

[apepi]

1) no they aren't and no it isn't
2) no it isn't and lol
3) no there aren't

you may as well be saying that nobody should play shredder because sometimes you'll be winning and it'll die and you'll get doomsayer out of it, using that one negative quality to outshine all its positive qualities, which for yogg are astronomically more outrageous and gamechanging than they ever were for the shredder. yogg is a full turn investment? are you joking? the guy can play a dozen turns and half a deck worth of cards out in your favour in just one turn. the guy conjures tempo and value out of nowhere like he's a third player that got to save all his cards and mana that game to play it all out in one turn. no other card or combination of cards is (in the situations where you'd play this) a better investment of 10 mana, or anywhere close to as extreme a power play as this card. it easily turns 100% unwinnable games into 50%+ wins with not even good RNG, if it doesn't just straight win you the game that turn.

And that is why people put him in their deck. It does not always work, but he does sometimes. Some times he does nothing. Some times he is just a card that waste away in your hand. Other times he just throws all your cards away. Some times he fills your board. Other times you end up going into fatigue and burning cards. And some times he can help you win a game. It is a lot of rng. It does not always work. You make it seem amazing, but its not. Its a fun card, and as a watcher of these tournaments it is fun to watch, some times the games would be boring without him.

[Pantalaimon]

1) no they aren't and no it isn't
2) no it isn't and lol
3) no there aren't

you may as well be saying that nobody should play shredder because sometimes you'll be winning and it'll die and you'll get doomsayer out of it, using that one negative quality to outshine all its positive qualities, which for yogg are astronomically more outrageous and gamechanging than they ever were for the shredder. yogg is a full turn investment? are you joking? the guy can play a dozen turns and half a deck worth of cards out in your favour in just one turn. the guy conjures tempo and value out of nowhere like he's a third player that got to save all his cards and mana that game to play it all out in one turn. no other card or combination of cards is (in the situations where you'd play this) a better investment of 10 mana, or anywhere close to as extreme a power play as this card. it easily turns 100% unwinnable games into 50%+ wins with not even good RNG, if it doesn't just straight win you the game that turn.



you don't play yogg to do 32 damage to the opponent, I would've thought obviously, or yourself for that matter. you play him to do the opposite of that.

You're taking way too many good case scenarios into what yogg does in general. Yogg isn't a 10 man 'dump damage on your opponent's face & board' minion that never hurts you as much as it does them. It is ALL rng... You are really ignoring all of the cases of people getting double pyro blasted in the face to give Yogg such a glowing 'OP' review as you have. The amount of spells has nothing to do with giving the user of yogg more beneficial spells, but simply using more spells to do stuff. It is time to put away the tinfoil hat about how rng works.

Comparing Yogg to Shredder also is not a good comparison. With shredder you were guaranteed to get some form of okay or decent return on board control (assuming you didn't get the rare doomsayer), and there was really no downside or thought into using it. With Yogg you aren't guaranteed a positive return from its effect. What really happens is that as a losing game ebbs more in favor of your opponent the risk of Yogg giving you a negative return matters less because you might lose without playing him anyway. The chance of getting a Doomsayer out of Yogg, so to speak, is MUCH higher than actually getting a Doomsayer or other crappy 2 drop from Shredder. If Yogg doesn't give you a board & you aren't ahead in card advantage you basically wasted your turn 10 & still aren't going to steal the game.

Btw, I like those percentages of getting a 50%+ easily won game from Yogg. Pretty sure there is a quote flying around about how most percentages on the internet are randomly made up on the spot.

- - - Updated - - -

In the end Yogg is not consistent enough to warrant any kind of ban. If anything N'Zoth would be much closer to some theoretical ban than Yogg. At least with N'Zoth you force the opponent to hold on to board clears otherwise you usually just win unless they're steamrolling you before playing N'Zoth. The return on N'Zoth is a sure thing if deathrattles have died. Yogg is a complete random return for everyone when spells are used.

[Nikkaszal]

Playing my Renounce deck, I have 2HP left and just drew my last card. No hope of winning unless... YOLO Yogg! Roll the dice baby!

First spell is Sprint =(

[Pantalaimon]

Playing my Renounce deck, I have 2HP left and just drew my last card. No hope of winning unless... YOLO Yogg! Roll the dice baby!

First spell is Sprint =(

Had a Yogg Mage use Yogg on me as a last ditch effort to try and win. I have 3-4 minions on board and he has 2 other minions besides Yogg. First spell? Frostbolt to the face sealing the win for me.

[Deleted]

I recently said feck it and started a Casino mage just for when im stressed out. Its so much bloody fun! Even if Yogg kills me its hilarious seeing how that's accomplished.
He's won me about 60% of games so far so pretty good.

[Rennadrel]

Banned?

Most people in tournaments would be happy to see Yogg in their opponent's deck, because it is completely unreliable and more often than not is a detriment to the person playing it, due to the full turn invested late game. Yogg is 100% an "I am about to lose, lets see if this gives me a second chance" card, nothing more, and because tournament decks favour reliability and stability over RNG it will never be a strong tournament play.

For every time something like that happens, there are four times where Yogg fucks its own player.

Only had Yogg really do nothing to help me so far on one occasion, most times it's in my favor or an even trade from time to time.

[Pantalaimon]

Only had Yogg really do nothing to help me so far, most times it's in my favor or an even trade from time to time.

To be fair you're only going to have a higher chance of having yogg benefit you greatly if the opponent is not playing smart and flood their board so that Yogg trashes their board for the maximum effect of the battlecry. Players who know what they're playing against shouldn't do that unless that is absolutely their win condition and they're going to lose anyway if they don't have a threatening board.

[Pantalaimon]

Ramp Yogg Druid going against a C'Thun Druid in standard, I'm at 5 health pls one armor, opponent has a Dark Arrakoa up, and I have no other plays so I praise Yogg.

Yogg tries to execute a couple times with no targets, heals me for 8, buffs himself with +2/+2, Siphon Souls the arrakoa, buffs himself with +1/+2, whirlwinds the board, adds damaged minions to my hand (Just Yogg), and some other stuff. Yogg is still alive. Guy throws down an Ironbark Protector. I drop an Arcane Golem, buff my Yogg and kill his protector. Next turn he throws down his 17/17 C'Thun to destroy Yogg, damage my golem, and almost kill me again. Yet again I have no other plays so I drop my second Yogg. This time he only does a couple of spells (one was another heal) before using Doom! as his third spell to wipe the board and draw me three cards. I win shortly after.

Not only did Yogg not kill himself right away the first time, but he healed me & destroyed the minion that would have killed me that next turn each time I played him. Praise Yogg!

I don't see why so many people don't want to play him anymore. More often than not Yogg won't die right away & can still save you.

[Deleted]

Not only did Yogg not kill himself right away the first time, but he healed me & destroyed the minion that would have killed me that next turn each time I played him. Praise Yogg!

I don't see why so many people don't want to play him anymore. More often than not Yogg won't die right away & can still save you.

Simple answer: because you play to win, not to avoid defeat/be saved by RNG.

Because its a 10 man card that will sit in your hand until you are desperate enough to play it. In a lot of games you will pick it up before 10 mana, so it just stalls your hand while being unplayable - this is a downside, you might be in that position because instead of playing another card(that costs less) you play Yogg..Because it has only 5 hp and if it silences/disables/removes/kill itself it can be a 10 mana do nothing turn. I've seen an opponent with a Yogg that naturalized itself, effectively being a 10 mana your opponent draws 2 cards situation.

Yogg used to always be beneficial if enough spells were cast, because despite the fact that he would clear the board, he would also draw you cards/play secrets/maybe put something into play(always on your side since summon spells work that way). Now, he's better of avoided if you are playing to win.

[Pantalaimon]

Simple answer: because you play to win, not to avoid defeat/be saved by RNG.

Because its a 10 man card that will sit in your hand until you are desperate enough to play it. In a lot of games you will pick it up before 10 mana, so it just stalls your hand while being unplayable - this is a downside, you might be in that position because instead of playing another card(that costs less) you play Yogg..Because it has only 5 hp and if it silences/disables/removes/kill itself it can be a 10 mana do nothing turn. I've seen an opponent with a Yogg that naturalized itself, effectively being a 10 mana your opponent draws 2 cards situation.

Yogg used to always be beneficial if enough spells were cast, because despite the fact that he would clear the board, he would also draw you cards/play secrets/maybe put something into play(always on your side since summon spells work that way). Now, he's better of avoided if you are playing to win.

Except in many more cases that I've seen Yogg played post nerf he doesn't kill himself right away than the alternative. Having a ten mana card in your hand isn't that bad for many archtypes of mage and druid. Look at Reno/Frost Mages, higher curve tempo mages, and Token/Ramp Druids. Before the Yogg nerf those decks didn't spontaneously lose if they drew Yogg at some point before turn ten, having to sit on it. They usually had ways of either stalling the game out or establishing big threats through value plays, so I don't see Yogg's mana cost as suddenly mattering towards the quality of the card.

I also fail to see how playing Yogg is not potentially playing to win. The entire point was that if you are losing he can make you win by a small, medium, or large margin, or you just lose as normal. Unless you're aiming for a clutch win no extra card is typically going to take the win if you would include it over Yogg in the decks Yogg shines in. An average quality Yogg could potentially do more than one board clear/hard removal, healing, draw engine, minion could do and a good Yogg may just win the game the turn it is played. If you're behind why wouldn't you still want a card like Yogg as opposed to just a single random card? In the anecdote of my previously mentioned game there would be no single card that would've done as much as Yogg did or save me both of those next turns, assuming I had replaced Yogg with something else instead.

And I disagree with your statement of playing to win, not to be saved by rng. It is actually both. Cards like Lightning Storm, Sylvannas, Brawl, Flamewalker, etc all rely on varying amounts of rng to win. People still play them despite the risk of minions only being hit by 2 damage instead of three, Sylvannas stealing that useless small minion instead of a bigger dangerous threat, Brawl destroying everything except for what needed to die, and Flamewalker hitting minions when it needed face & vice-versa. People play to win & they often win through rng.

[Pantalaimon]

Nobody has posted a funny Yogg moment in awhile so I'll share one from today.

Was playing a newly crafted wild secret mage deck and my warrior opponent dropped N'Zoth in the late game (resurrecting a Belcher, Shredder, Boombot, & some other things), with the warrior at 5 hp. I slam down Yogg who summons me a couple of 1/1 dudes, destroys a dude, adapts Yogg (giving Yogg windfury), destroys my other dude, shadowbolts the warrior's belcher, innervates me so I can ping the belcher, & then gives Yogg stealth.

Warrior's turn, he must destroy a stealthed windfury Yogg or drop another taunt in order to not lose, but he is also facing 4 of my secrets too (one being a random +2/+2 hunter secret, the others being my own Counterspell, Ice Block, & the spell stealing one). He tests by trying to slam, getting it countered. Next he uses his ungoro pack & preceeds to try to pally steed taunt his minion, which gets promptly stolen by my other secret.

Yogg doing hilarious stuff again, and opponent playing inefficienty to attempt to play around a variety of secrets in my deck to boot? Priceless!