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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaldo View Post
    What....?

    The controversy is that all it takes is 1 bad day for someone to turn into the Joker. People like to believe that serial killers and rapists all have terrible pasts and upbringings that lead them to what they do. But the story of a completely normal guy, trying to support a wife and an upcoming child, turning into Batmans most notorious villain overnight was what caused all the controversy behind this story. The joker broke out of Arkam Asylum to try and prove that even the most noble people could be broken. That's why he kidnapped Commissioner Gordon and tortured his daughter Barbara and forced him to look at those pictures. Joker was trying to show that anyone could be the Joker, under the right circumstances, with 1 really bad day.

    I haven't read the comics, but as for the movie it was alright. I don't like how much they broke up Jokers backstory, it felt like it dragged on. The whole movie was slow and the first guy that Batgirl kept chasing after was ill fitting and was just a waste of screen time. It wasn't bad, but definitely one of the worst DC movies IMO.
    There is nothing controversial about having a bad day and becoming the joker. That is a given, the ending has always been the only controversial point ever.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    There is nothing controversial about having a bad day and becoming the joker. That is a given, the ending has always been the only controversial point ever.
    I always thought the controversy was over Babs getting shot and photographed naked. Once the story was confirmed as cannon, theres no way to fit the story into continuity with Batman killing the joker.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I always thought the controversy was over Babs getting shot and photographed naked. Once the story was confirmed as cannon, theres no way to fit the story into continuity with Batman killing the joker.
    Then you should tell the guy who illustrated the book that. You may also want to watch the video i posted where another famous illustrator talks about it.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    Then you should tell the guy who illustrated the book that. You may also want to watch the video i posted where another famous illustrator talks about it.
    Doesn't really matter what the illustrator thinks, when it was brought into canon there was only one way the story could have ended.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I always thought the controversy was over Babs getting shot and photographed naked. Once the story was confirmed as cannon, theres no way to fit the story into continuity with Batman killing the joker.
    Yeah, the ONLY controversy over the book was how they treated Barbara. They had her get shot, then photographed nude, but it was done solely to cause the MALE characters to suffer. When Moore originally asked if he could have Joker shoot and paralyze a character who had actually been a well known hero at one point, the editor's reply was "Yeah, cripple the bitch".

    The ending has been debated, was it meant to show Bats killing Joker, or not(yes DC welded it into continuity and answered the question of "did he" but not the question of "was he meant to"), but it's never been particularly controversial, just debatable. And the idea of 1 bad day creating the Joker has never at all been "controversial".

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    but it was done solely to cause the MALE characters to suffer,
    I don't really see that as an issue at all. Women are not some special case where they cannot have bad things happen to them nor do they have to be the focus of every story. In Justice League: Gods and Monsters, Orion was basically a throwaway character whose only purpose was to die to motivate Bekka and I thought it was really well done.

  7. #47
    I really think they need to do the "A Death in the Family" story...I mean it's been hinted to in pretty much everything.

    Even the BComputer had an image and shows an image of it.



    And I want this one as dark as we can get.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    I really think they need to do the "A Death in the Family" story...I mean it's been hinted to in pretty much everything.

    Even the BComputer had an image and shows an image of it.



    And I want this one as dark as we can get.
    Well tbh the Death in the Family series was pretty boring until the Joker killed Jason and that scene was already in Under the Red Hood.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    I really think they need to do the "A Death in the Family" story...I mean it's been hinted to in pretty much everything.

    Even the BComputer had an image and shows an image of it.
    Well thanks to there Under the Red Hood movie they would have to rewrite the ending to A Death in the Family because the backstory they used in that movie is not what happen in UtRD.

    It was a slight change and a bit annoying but I loved that movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    Then you should tell the guy who illustrated the book that. You may also want to watch the video i posted where another famous illustrator talks about it.
    Doesn't matter who illustrated the book.

    The controversy was over batgirl getting shot and joker taking nude pics to make gordon snap. Also once again it was never implyed that batman killed the joker at the end. What was implyed is that they are two of the same coin.

    Also what some though was joker raped batgirl after he shot her.
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  10. #50
    Stunningly underwhelming, especially compared to The Dark Knight Returns with Peter Weller. The "new" 20 minutes or whatever at the beginning didn't really do anything to enhance the role of Batgirl as Azarello had hoped to do. It just muddied the character and really shit on the long standing paternal nature of the Batman/Batgirl relationship. In the end all it ends up being was filler to turn it into a "feature length" film as The Killing Joke at 48 pages is pretty short.

    The remainder, once it actually picked up with the original story was ok. Mark Hamill is obviously the best joker voice ever, so I loved hearing him again. Nice hearing Kevin Conroy too.

    Once again though, we're faced with the braying and naying of a bunch of SJW's upset about Barbara Gordon. Nothing in the movie here, or the original comic mentions anything about The Joker raping her. Disrobed sure, and I guess in some way that's an assault. But the Joker isn't about rape. His goal was to make the Commissioner crack, raping Batgirl doesn't accomplish that, it's unnecessary when he already has the photos, forcing a more ambiguous narrative in the mind of the Commissioner.

    The animation was pretty standard and sadly WB Animation couldn't recreate the jarring noir aspects of Bolland's artwork in the comic.

    It's a resounding "meh."
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I don't really see that as an issue at all. Women are not some special case where they cannot have bad things happen to them nor do they have to be the focus of every story.
    Sure. But to take a long standing, well established character, and then just toss them away solely to motivate the males is a bit of an issue with some people. Barbara was basically treated like an afterthought, and wholly unimportant EXCEPT as a way to hurt Jim Gordon.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post

    The controversy was over batgirl getting shot and joker taking nude pics to make gordon snap. Also once again it was never implyed that batman killed the joker at the end. What was implyed is that they are two of the same coin.
    Yeah, I'm sorry but you are are wrong. I mean if you want to ignore the actual controversy that is fine. What's that old saying you can lead a horse to water but, you can't make em drink. Seems fitting here.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Sure. But to take a long standing, well established character, and then just toss them away solely to motivate the males is a bit of an issue with some people. Barbara was basically treated like an afterthought, and wholly unimportant EXCEPT as a way to hurt Jim Gordon.
    But was she thrown away? or did she become an even more integral part of the story as Oracle?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry but you are are wrong. I mean if you want to ignore the actual controversy that is fine. What's that old saying you can lead a horse to water but, you can't make em drink. Seems fitting here.
    Seeing how I own the comic and owned a original print of it as well I know what I am talking about.

    The only controversy part was him shooting barb because it was assumed he also raped her. If you got any proof to back up ur opinion provide it, I'm not posting any links since there is a army's worth u can see if you just google controversy killing joke.

    Also as the poster said above moores original script even states he didn't kill the joker.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    But was she thrown away? or did she become an even more integral part of the story as Oracle?
    Not like the writer of The Killing Joke thought that far ahead. Oracle was more just salvaging the character after Killing Joke virtually fridged her.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    But was she thrown away? or did she become an even more integral part of the story as Oracle?
    She was thrown away. Her becoming Oracle was NOT part of the original plan. Two other writers, who had nothing to do with Alan Moore, were offended at how Babs was treated, so THEY decided to bring her back as Oracle.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Also as the poster said above moores original script even states he didn't kill the joker.
    The script doesn't state that at all.
    Second to last page of the script
    Last page
    Again, say what you like this wasn't canon when it was written. The ending has long been questioned if you choose to not believe that, that's your prerogative.
    Last edited by vindicatorx; 2016-07-30 at 01:59 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by vindicatorx View Post
    The script doesn't state that at all.
    Second to last page of the script
    Last page
    Again, say what you like this wasn't canon when it was written. The ending has long been questioned if you choose to not believe that, that's your prerogative.
    Once again and feel free to google it the only controversy part is what he did to barb. This is a fact you sooner or later need to accept. It was never implyed batman killed him.

    Once again as someone who owns the comic (read it many times) and even owned a original print I know what I am talking about.

    Feel free to google it,Done repeating myself.
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  19. #59
    With all these people on board, fingers crossed that it's the first worthy adaptation of one of Alan Moore's works...
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  20. #60
    It was very underwhelming for me. I was so hyped for this movie and I don't think it did the comic book justice. It seems people are happy with the ending, but it felt very disconnected for me. It also felt as if the dialogue in the end was cut very short since the Joker pretty much breaks down before he says the joke. The first half of the movie was a disaster and the batsex was insulting. It was a wasted attempt at an animated R rated film and a wasted attempt at a successful adaptation of The Killing Joke.

    That's just my opinion though.

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