The Problem With C'thun

[Nikkaszal]

Control archetype? There's not a lot of control involved in zoo og divine aggro pala.

Zoo decks that spam face are the ones that lose more. Zoo is all about cheap, efficient trades and overwhelming board presence. All it takes is one good boardclear while the opponent still has minions, and zoo is fucked - they NEED to control the board. Same with DS pally, because these two decks do not suffer the same problem as other aggro decks that don't face - they do not run out of cards thanks to Life Tap and Divine Favour.

They are control, just with smaller minions.

[habitsbreaker]

Personally I just find them extremely boring, as well as the C'thun minions to be way too powerful for their cost. I've played like 70 games over the past 24 hours (I was bored, sue me...) and at least half, if not more of them have been C'thun, so god damn frustrating.

You could say "go aggro!" or some shit, but that's even more boring... At this point I think I'd rather stop playing Hearthstone altogether until this ridiculous C'thun craze blows over.

try control warrior ,it fun to play it vs chutun

[muto]

try control warrior ,it fun to play it vs chutun

Yeah Control Warrior and Face Decks wreck C'Thun decks, since they tend to be a bit on the slow side.

[Dyptheria]

*sigh* C'thun...every time I run into one of these decks, it makes me think that its design was inspired by this:

[Khaza-R]

My only problem with some C'thun cards is that they offer no real counter play. Namely Twilight Darkmender. Its already strong minion for 5 mana. There's no way from stopping its battlecry from activating. There's no risk or commitment in playing the card for a Priest.

Its kind of just a brainless card like Twin Emperors. Which is something this game needs less of.

[apepi]

Question, if you opponent plays C'thun and you then say Aldor Peacekeeper him, does his attack then reset to 0? Even if say you end up killing him and they revive/put it back into their deck with Doomcaller?

It would be nice to have a card to reduce the amount of health he could do or counter him.

[Raiju]

Question, if you opponent plays C'thun and you then say Aldor Peacekeeper him, does his attack then reset to 0? Even if say you end up killing him and they revive/put it back into their deck with Doomcaller?

It would be nice to have a card to reduce the amount of health he could do or counter him.

No, absolutely nothing you do to the c'thun on the board will reduce the counter for cards activated by 10+ c'thun.

[Deleted]

I'm loving all the C'thun decks, they're free win for me.
I'm running a Reno+High Justicar control warrior, I simply stock up on armor until C'thun is dropped, Reno and execute the fucker and go for the win, even if I can't reno smacking down a varian and suddenly having 3 7+hp bodies nullifies C'thun completely.
I think since Old Gods was released I've only lost against one C'thun druid with a wicked curve.

[Pantalaimon]

Thats it more or less. C'Thun itself wouldnt be a problem. The problem is that the minions are waaaay to strong. Imo it should be challenging to get to C'Thun and then get rewraded. But thats not the case.

Even with an aggrssive midrange deck its hard to keep up with OP C'Thun minions. Instead of of making the game fast, so the opponent cant get to throw out C'Thun you are even struggling just to get rid of the minions. I guess at some point mabe there will come a nerf...maybe like 6-12 months. As usually blizzard will give ppl time to feel powerful.

C'Thun's minions should be strong, otherwise it just turns into the type of deck that people were saying it was before WotOGs launched, a deck full of weak vanilla minions with only one win condition bomb. Imo the deck should not be made into a one trick pony that can't win unless C'Thun is used. That is boring game design.

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My only problem with some C'thun cards is that they offer no real counter play. Namely Twilight Darkmender. Its already strong minion for 5 mana. There's no way from stopping its battlecry from activating. There's no risk or commitment in playing the card for a Priest.

Its kind of just a brainless card like Twin Emperors. Which is something this game needs less of.

Bait their entombs & other removal in the mid to early late game & pop sylvannas before they drop C'Thun. Check and mate.

[Irian]

From my personal experiences, C'thun decks are good. Not exceptional, not amazing, just decent. And I think the game needs a solid "pretty good" deck archetype that doesn't rely on excessive levels of RNG or face rush.

You can climb ladder with C'thun, but he's not the best. C'thun himself is versatile and can be thrown out to try and salvage a board or finish a game to make up for the fact that C'thun decks themselves are just okayish midrange. You always have to consider that while the C'thun buffing cards are good on their own, you give up any other win conditions for the sake of C'thun himself.

Additionally, C'thun's effect is very easily counterable. If you play any deck with a card that has an effect that triggers on damage, unless your enemy is using him for lethal then they will hesitate. Additionally, high health minions make C'thun's effect way more unreliable. I've played C'thun decks and lost lethals that I thought would be guaranteed on a 20/20 C'thun just because the enemy had 1-2 minions that happened to soak up the maximum possible hits.

I guess the trick to playing against C'thun decks is to just always remember that you're playing against a clock. Your enemy has time on their side and the longer they can draw out the game the better it will be for them. If you're playing a slow attrition-based control deck that isn't prepared to deal with C'thun when he comes out then you have to revise your deck.

[Pantalaimon]

I think more people should ask themselves whether it is actually C'Thun that they are complaining about, or the fact that so many are playing the deck because efficient deck types are smaller in general due to the new standard format. There are many types of decks that the format created, but for the average player there are only a few of them that those players use well to ladder. This is going to be more of the norm now, moreso than what it was in the old format. Just wait, after WotOGs cycles out people will pop up threads talking about how Chaos Goat Control Warriors are the new problem & that everyone is playing them, thus making the game stale.

[PPN]

I think more people should ask themselves whether it is actually C'Thun that they are complaining about, or the fact that so many are playing the deck because efficient deck types are smaller in general due to the new standard format. There are many types of decks that the format created, but for the average player there are only a few of them that those players use well to ladder. This is going to be more of the norm now, moreso than what it was in the old format. Just wait, after WotOGs cycles out people will pop up threads talking about how Chaos Goat Control Warriors are the new problem & that everyone is playing them, thus making the game stale.

Its for sure very helpful to get new ppl into the game, because no matter if you played HS before or not you are instantly godlike. It was never easier to start with HS then now.

Its the same with WoW, in the start it was cruel and even for me now almost unbelievable how time consuming to progress, but to make it more friendly they dumbed it down as much as they could. Its for sure very accesible, but the creative and challenging part is just gone.

I hope HS will stay alive for a while until it also reaches this point.

When i got my first epic (WoW-Vanilla) or legendary (HS) i was excited for like a week. Now epics are lying in Orgrimmar on the floor and ppl are lazy to pick them up

[Deleted]

Zoo decks that spam face are the ones that lose more. Zoo is all about cheap, efficient trades and overwhelming board presence. All it takes is one good boardclear while the opponent still has minions, and zoo is fucked - they NEED to control the board. Same with DS pally, because these two decks do not suffer the same problem as other aggro decks that don't face - they do not run out of cards thanks to Life Tap and Divine Favour.

They are control, just with smaller minions.

Do you even play HS atm?
The times of Zoo controlling are long gone, in current meta by the time you cleared their ridiculous value minions off the board, you just get a leeroy with double PO in your face.

[Nikkaszal]

Do you even play HS atm?
The times of Zoo controlling are long gone, in current meta by the time you cleared their ridiculous value minions off the board, you just get a leeroy with double PO in your face.

Yeah. I am. And the ones that facefaceface still lose more because zoo doesn't have the constant charge/nukes that make Hunters and Shamen so effective at face, and have an absolutely terrible time at busting through taunts without trades.

Zoo lost more than it gained this expac, with KJ, Leper and Owl falling out of the vogue and Voidcaller, Skittles, Boom and Shredder being removed. They gained Councilman (which (A) requires setup and (B) is immediately removed by anyone with sense who holds a nuke specifically for it), Forbidden Tentacles, Possessed Villager and Spawn Of N'zoth. None of which outside a Councilman left to run rampant promotes heavy face damage. Leeroy and PO has been around forever, not like it's a new tactic. 80% of the time, PO is used to trade up with a 1/1.

[Deleted]

Yeah. I am. And the ones that facefaceface still lose more because zoo doesn't have the constant charge/nukes that make Hunters and Shamen so effective at face, and have an absolutely terrible time at busting through taunts without trades.

Zoo lost more than it gained this expac, with KJ falling out of the vogue and Voidcaller, Skittles, Boom and Shredder being removed. They gained Councilman (which (A) requires setup and (B) is immediately removed by anyone with sense who holds a nuke specifically for it), Forbidden Tentacles, Possessed Villager and Spawn Of N'zoth. None of which outside a Councilman left to run rampant promotes heavy face damage. Leeroy and PO has been around forever, not like it's a new tactic. 80% of the time, PO is used to trade up with a 1/1.

Sounds more like you don't understand Zoo to me tbh.
If you are using PO to trade your 1/1 well yeah, i guess you will lose with zoo.... (you should only do this if you REALLY have to, which is mostly not the case, usually there are better options and saving your PO's for wincondition).

The current viable list has double DA, double DWA, double abusive, DID, 2-4 PO's, Gormok, 2x Juggler + Ritual. If you can't find a way to clear a few taunts with that you are just bad tbh.

Zoo used to be full board control with the sticky minions, the new zoo only trades if it has to or does get really good value out of it.

[Yemkela]

Zoo has some of the best burst in the game, definitely better than Hunter's. Nobody expects the third Power Overwhelming!

I would say I only use PO on a token to trade if the situation is desperate. If you still have a board after Forbidden Ritual, you can use any number of cards to help trade. DWA is the best but Sergeants and Dwarves will do the trick too. Always save PO for your burst if you can.

Shaman has better burst for sure, but they make up for it with a lack of reliable card draw. They also don't have a good way to come back from a board clear like Zoo does.