Not enough Raiders in Trion Rift - Raids nerfed 50% ???

[Eleccybubb]

Challenge that someone ends up unable to do does not keep them around once they realize this. The idea that it does is a pernicious myth.

Agreed. That's why there needs to be challenge for everyone along with content for everyone. But like I said that wasn't Rifts only issue to why the current game is a mess.

[ItachiZaku]

It's a shame, cuz it started off really well. My big issue originally was that it wasn't cartoony enough - like, I enjoy SWTOR and WoW cuz I can very easily see that I'm in a party with a Tauren, Blood Elf, Sith Pureblood and a Twilek. Rift, I'm in these instant adventures with the other faction and I only notice when I can't heal them.

[Osmeric]

Agreed. That's why there needs to be challenge for everyone along with content for everyone. But like I said that wasn't Rifts only issue to why the current game is a mess.

The paywall appeared only after the F2P transition, which was after the initial large decline. The people I was talking about (and myself) left the game long before it went F2P.

BTW, it's not clear to me that "content for everyone" actually works in an MMO. Ghetto content is ghetto, and isn't very satisfying if it sends too obvious a message that "if this content is for you, then you suck".

[Eleccybubb]

The paywall appeared only after the F2P transition, which was after the initial large decline. The people I was talking about (and myself) left the game long before it went F2P.

BTW, it's not clear to me that "content for everyone" actually works in an MMO. Ghetto content is ghetto, and isn't very satisfying if it sends too obvious a message that "if this content is for you, then you suck".

I agree it needs to send a challenge to the player in some aspect but ofc easy content does have to exist for people who just want to chill. But yeah I left during the sub period then came back to ding 65 and man did the game bore the hell outta me. Disgusting that you can buy raid ready gear for like £150-200 too.

[justinhalfout]

Disgusting that you can buy raid ready gear for like £150-200 too.

I remember someone mentioning in their forums they were a new player and the lack of catch up mechanisms was hindering them from joining his friends playing current content, at which point someone pointed out "your credit card is your catch up mechanism here".

[Slipmat]

Shame it's not possible to get fully Tier 3 Raid geared for nothing without ever setting foot in a raid.....

[Eleccybubb]

Shame it's not possible to get fully Tier 3 Raid geared for nothing without ever setting foot in a raid.....

Did I say that? I said you can buy RAID READY gear from the store at a disgusting price. But of course taking everything people say out of context and warping it to try and defend Trion right Slippy?

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I remember someone mentioning in their forums they were a new player and the lack of catch up mechanisms was hindering them from joining his friends playing current content, at which point someone pointed out "your credit card is your catch up mechanism here".

Pretty much. Want earrings and planewalker? Go grind void stones or pay £30. Want raid ready gear to get you into the current raid. £150-200. Disgusting.

[Slipmat]

Want raid ready gear to get you into the current raid. £150-200. Disgusting.

I guess you must spend every day been 'disgusted' when you see people drive past you in their BMWs, their Mercedes, even the odd Ferrari now and then, thousands of Dollars on cars...disgusting.....

Or keeping it "virtual", all those players buying virtual spaceships for hundeds, sometimes thousands of Dollars in Star Citizen, bet that "disgusts" you as well.

[Eleccybubb]

I guess you must spend every day been 'disgusted' when you see people drive past you in their BMWs, their Mercedes, even the odd Ferrari now and then, thousands of Dollars on cars...disgusting.....

Or keeping it "virtual", all those players buying virtual spaceships for hundeds, sometimes thousands of Dollars in Star Citizen, bet that "disgusts" you as well.

Nah I like Ferraris mostly classics like Testarossa, 250 GTO, 265 GTB/4 Daytona and so on. BMW I like that new I8 or whatever it's called looks quite funky for an electric car or hybrid I can't recall. As for Mercs I do like the older models like the 600 grosser, the 300 SL but the only newer model I like is the AMG SLS.

But to stay on topic since you decided to derail it into a discussion about cars for some reason I'm not surprised you find Trions selling gear for £150 acceptable. . Name another MMO that let's you buy raid ready gear with real money that is well known as well as gates equipment slots like Rift do. WoW doesn't do it, FF14 doesn't do it, Guild Wars 2 doesn't do it and hell most of my Freemium MMOs I play don't do it.

On topic of raiders isn't there only like 10 serious guilds left now? Because if so that is dire. I heard 30 raiding total or something and 10 serious ones.

[Slipmat]

I'm not surprised you find Trions selling gear for £150 acceptable. . Name another MMO that let's you buy raid ready gear with real money that is well known.

You are aware that you can also get this raid gear for absolutely free and never pay a penny right? because all your posts seem to "conveniently" forget to mention that, plus everything in the game can be gotten for free as well by, you know, playing the game.

So what about your old FoTM game Black Desert then?, did that game selling "costumes" for real money disgust you as well? seeing as you need that gear, plus need to buy various pets and breed them to get the best stats, for end game in BDO, if you don't have all that gear and maxed out pets you get steamrolled by Johnny Wallet Warrior at end game.

There is nothing you can buy with real money in Rift that will ever give you an advantage over another player but there is in Black Desert, a raider in Rift has access to the best gear from the newest 10-man raid that is far superior to the "raid" gear you can buy in the store, plus somebody that buys this raid gear for money has no way to upgrade the gear from Epic to Relic without, you know, actually raiding since the upgrade items are only found in raids and are BoP.

But i guess you already know all this, just happen to conveniently left out these minor details in your usual "passionate" observation on other MMORPG's business practices.

[Eleccybubb]

You are aware that you can also get this raid gear for absolutely free and never pay a penny right? because all your posts seem to "conveniently" forget to mention that, plus everything in the game can be gotten for free as well by, you know, playing the game.

So what about your old FoTM game Black Desert then?, did that game selling "costumes" for real money disgust you as well? seeing as you need that gear, plus need to buy various pets and breed them to get the best stats, for end game in BDO, if you don't have all that gear and maxed out pets you get steamrolled by Johnny Wallet Warrior at end game.

There is nothing you can buy with real money in Rift that will ever give you an advantage over another player but there is in Black Desert, a raider in Rift has access to the best gear from the newest 10-man raid that is far superior to the "raid" gear you can buy in the store, plus somebody that buys this raid gear for money has no way to upgrade the gear from Epic to Relic without, you know, actually raiding since the upgrade items are only found in raids and are BoP.

Now to get back on topic again which is actually raiding guilds. About 10 are left right Slipmat that take progression seriously and 30 overall yeah? Or is it less than 30 because that was a while back?
But i guess you already know all this, just happen to conveniently left out these minor details in your usual "passionate" observation on other MMORPG's business practices.

Nah just scumbag ones Slippy. And I agree BDO's costume thing is just as crappy but I don't play that one never had an interest in Korean MMOs personally. Now again tell me how selling gear slots or making the player grind obnoxiously is not a scummy business practice? But sure keep defending Rift and when it inevitably shuts down it'll be all worth it . Also I don't think you have the ground to call anyone out on "passionate" attitudes towards an MMO when you passionately defend this game like it is your life and when Trion do eventually do stupid crap you are there to defend it. And if everything can be gotten for free why do they need to sell raid ready gear for £150? Oh that's right because "convenience".

Btw staying on topic since you want to derail it a lot into other games and cars for some reason. How about the amount of raiding guilds left in this game? 30 is it and only 10 or less actually take it seriously? But I'm totally sure Starfall Prophecy will fix that if people actually buy it. I mean Trion will sell it right especially with that video with 1 million views yeah? Must be getting a lot of "publicity" if 1 million are watching it

[Slipmat]

Now again tell me how selling gear slots or making the player grind obnoxiously is not a scummy business practice?

Simple, it's none of my business how or what other people spend their money on as long as it doesn't affect my game play and guess what? it doesn't, Johnny Wallet Warrior can spend all he wants in Rift and it has zero impact on my game enjoyment but glad the gaming Community has such concerned players like you out there to keep them from spending their money any way the like.

if everything can be gotten for free why do they need to sell raid ready gear for £150? Oh that's right because "convenience".

Psst, something you might not be aware of, Rift is a free to play game, last time i checked Trion are not a charity that gives everything away for nothing with all the staff happily work away for free with a smile on their face.

As we're on a 99.9% WoW site why is it that Blizzard charges a sub, then charges extra for store mounts, server transfers per char, not account, race changes, oh right, "convenience" but wait, you already pay a sub for this convenience, funny that Rift allows players to transfer servers for free once a week, every week.

Like i said, if somebody wants to buy raid gear or buy anything in the Store, fair play to them, they're supporting the game, who am I to dictate to them that they're wrong and need to grind out everything for free, if they choose to take a shortcut, not my business, doesn't affect me in the slightest.

[Osmeric]

Nah just scumbag ones Slippy. And I agree BDO's costume thing is just as crappy but I don't play that one never had an interest in Korean MMOs personally. Now again tell me how selling gear slots or making the player grind obnoxiously is not a scummy business practice?

If they're up front about it then how could it be scummy? Making a product that you don't personally want isn't scummy.

[Deleted]

Like i said, if somebody wants to buy raid gear or buy anything in the Store, fair play to them, they're supporting the game, who am I to dictate to them that they're wrong and need to grind out everything for free, if they choose to take a shortcut, not my business, doesn't affect me in the slightest.

So if the Devs see ppl spend money on such stupid things, and start to price other stuff for XY instead of YX, it wont effect you ?

Look at the cosmetic pricing in Rift as an example, its behind stupid how high some prices go, for basically nothing/outdated stuff.


I get why you keep defending Rift, its a great game or better was. I was playing it for over 5 years, but Trion, mostly Archonix, has crashed the Game the last 2 years pretty hard sadly.

[Slipmat]

So if the Devs see ppl spend money on such stupid things, and start to price other stuff for XY instead of YX, it wont effect you ?

As long as they keep to pricing all items with credits and making them giftable it wouldn't affect me at all as everything on the Rift Store can be obtained by playing the game, earning the in game currencies, the only exceptions are the two Expansion Packs for Starfall Prophecy, they are cash only but you can also pay a Rift Store seller in game platinum to gift them to you, so again, everything can be obtained for free and from playing the game.

It just takes time invested, which is the whole point of an MMORPG, you invest time, an MMO that can be "finished" in one week is kind of defeating the point of an MMO.

[Deleted]

As long as they keep to pricing all items with credits and making them giftable it wouldn't affect me at all as everything on the Rift Store can be obtained by playing the game, earning the in game currencies, the only exceptions are the two Expansion Packs for Starfall Prophecy, they are cash only but you can also pay a Rift Store seller in game platinum to gift them to you, so again, everything can be obtained for free and from playing the game.

It just takes time invested, which is the whole point of an MMORPG, you invest time, an MMO that can be "finished" in one week is kind of defeating the point of an MMO.

You kinda missed my Point, you said if ppl buy Gear/stuff for stupid high prices it wont effect you, but needing to farm more Plat for more Credits does effect you. Maybe not a Player like you playing for Years per se, but alot of/new ppl ARE effected by that.

And since you said something about wow and pricing, for a new Player in both Games, with the B2P Expansion coming, Rift will be more expansive too play for "free" then wow is, esp. if you play on EU in Rift(saying you really want the whole experience, not talking fluff)

[theWocky]

It just takes time invested, which is the whole point of an MMORPG, you invest time, an MMO that can be "finished" in one week is kind of defeating the point of an MMO.

I have to call you out here. No, actually it's not.

The point of an MMO is to provide a platform for multiple people to as a community participate in activities together - preferably fun activities.
The point of an MMORPG is to provide an immersive game world where these activities take place. Grind is not a necessity. Good gameplay is.

One of my absolutely favourite MMO's is War Thunder where each battle is a fun experience - which gradually unlocks additional planes, tanks, etc. These are not a necessity to enjoy the game, however, but rather a bonus. Whether I'm in a Tier 1 battle or a Tier 5, it doesn't matter, the game is fun as long as Tier 5 tanks aren't clobbering my Tier 1 tank.

This, is how I imagine a really good PvP system or PvE preparation system in an MMORPG would work. Games cease to be games when they become a chore. Personally, I feel the gear should be flat stats for all PvP and rewards should be costumes and mounts only based on matches won, not time spent in warfronts. You don't get rewards for PvE due to time spent, but for actually completing / downing bosses. PvP should be no different. I do not agree with rep grinds either in PvE as they are a severe hindrance to people who start late in the expansion. They're fine as an initial first few months "content gate", but should be removed at some point.

I have no issue with raid gear being on the store, but when it causes raids to be rushed and released buggy as has been alleged and I would argue "clearly demonstrated", there is a problem. Had a complete set of RAID Tier 1 (when Tier 3.5 is available) for purchase for like 50 bucks or so (with the ability to buy bundles as well for alts) and not 400 bucks, I would have bought it - and it would have given me enough of a leg up to enjoy content with friends.

In this sense, it would be a good catch-up mechanism. Not the current system of "rush to get the 2nd best gear to the store" and make you immediately gear ready (probably even surpass your average raider) for latest content.

As the system is right now, it is flawed - not because the gear is on the store, but because it prompts Trion to rush content, buggy content to sell gear.