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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ElDoorO View Post
    For a group that, allegedly, doubled their dev size -- it's odd how they've gotten *worse* at releasing content to the point they need to artificially inflate content to buy them time, which is how I'd interpret your feelings since you're continuing the analogy (which isn't meant to be literal, just an extension and rewording of how you feel). Too much content isn't a bad thing. It means you choose which content is for you.

    The only reason to have timegating at the release of something is so you don't have people compelled to call into work or else they are letting their team down. So long as the timegate allows to a *reasonable* amount of time to hit max level, then I'm fine. Once leveling is done, there's no reason for gating anymore -- not even for patches. Or LFR. Or *ANYTHING*.

    I think it'd be nice to fair from the dev's *AT RELEASE* how long they expect that content to last us.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The thing about Cataclysm is they foolishly went from a relaxed fun dungeon style to a stressful multi-hour wipefest style. There was no transition, no learning curve --and-- GC mocked the players who flunked miserably which caused a rift between the regular raiders and the "filthy casuals". It was, more or less, officially made that "filthy casuals" were no longer welcome in WoW. This was the straw that pushed people to cyclical playing. No more was WoW about relaxed fun but about stress and pushing new content then being done because rewards where shit.

    8+ million sub loss later...
    ^THERE IT IS ^ has there ever been a post without someone mentioning subs?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Phive View Post
    ^THERE IT IS ^ has there ever been a post without someone mentioning subs?
    Are you denying that making the game difficult cost them sub's during Cata? It's kind of important if you want WoW to be profitable... it's kind of the point of a business, ya know?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Somehow it wasn't an issue in BC and WotLK. BC released a crapton of raids and dungeons all at once, all modes unlocked, and throughout the whole expansion people didn't complain about content droughts.

    Timegating is a bad sign for me. It's a way to artificially prolong the content because you know there isn't a lot of it. Worrying about players "burning through content too fast, so we have to restrict them" is like serving the meal in small portions so you can enjoy it for longer.
    If you think there was no time gating in TBC you didn't actually play it.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    In BC and vanilla, gating wasn't artificial, as gaining access to the raids and dungeons was tied to meaningful questlines (some of them are part of my best memories from BC and vanilla), which were pieces of content. While you re right some dungeons were gated via reputation (which still exist nowaday), the gating was different from nowadays, because time gating isn't content.

    Aside from reputations, you could complete any vanilla or BC attunements in one day, provided you had the group for it. The point of attunements in BC/vanilla wasn't to delay your progress, it was to make sure you completed the content (which is something totally different). Typically, for the dungeon reputation of BC, you merely had to complete some quests in the area of the dungeon (which you would typically do while leveling) and run a few time the dungeons in normal mode (you couldn't jump right away in heroic modes dungeons anyway, as they were quite hard at the beginning of TBC).
    Meaningful questline... Jeez, bit of a stretch there champ Naxx40 entrance was based on rep and it was a horrible pain to grind it out. Gated behind rep. (i still remember a few raiders who, while everybody else were inside they spent hours upon hours grinding out that crap rep. BWL was tedious (hint: not many liked bothering with ubrs). Gated behind long involved quest and no, you didn't complete it in one day usually. MC was easy once you learned the shortcut. Onyxia, gated behind a long quest. All required time.

    TBC zones, no, you didn't get to Honored (required for heroic keys) just by doing the quests in the zone, nor was it as simple as running a dungeon few times. Was a teensy bit longer to access heroics. Gated. Oh but grinding a dungeon multiple times for a little bit of rep was meaningful to you apparently.

    Raids: as I said Karazhan was about the only one which you could finish in a day, I guess assuming one person in your group has a key to all the 5mans required for the quest line...early on, yeah good luck finishing it in one day. lol.

    SSC required some 5man, Kara boss and some other raid boss. If your raid group is all on the same page, I could see all those being done in one day....albeit, an enormously long day. Gated.

    TK would never happen in a day, I still shudder at that chain. Very Gated.

    Hyjal required rep + T5 end bosses. If you did this before they allow people to bypass all other bosses, you'd know it wasn't a days work. A week, sure. You got Gated.

    BT, again a long quest line (fun one, too). Still Gated.

    The point? Everything that was locked behind keys, reps, major quest lines. That's artificial gating. They could've just had everything available, no requirements. Artificial gating historically isn't a bad thing since you found meaning in all of it. In fact, TBC was probably the high point for anything and everything being gated one way or another. =P

  5. #65
    Inb4 world first Aritifact Rank: 34...

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by threeks View Post
    If you think there was no time gating in TBC you didn't actually play it.
    There was a LOT of gating, but the gating was very different. It was based on effort, not time.

    Right now WoW has a lot of "Wait x weeks for something to be unlocked", essentially cutting existing content to make sure there is something new to release instead of launching it all at once. BC didn't have that. Unlocking HCs, completing quests for keys and attunements - those could be completed in a day or less, depending on how much you wanted to push it.

    Say, Karazhan. In BC to gain access (key) to it you needed to complete a long quest chain, with lots of lore and travelling in it. Moreover, you had to complete 3 high level dungeons. Nothing super hard, you could do it easily in a few hours, but you had to show dedication to obtaining the reward.

    How would Karazhan key be treated in WoW now? Probably would be released after a month of the expansion release. And no way that someone gets the entry earlier than another, that's not fair to people who play less than others, duh.

  7. #67
    Deleted
    TBC zones, no, you didn't get to Honored (required for heroic keys) just by doing the quests in the zone, nor was it as simple as running a dungeon few times. Was a teensy bit longer to access heroics. Gated. Oh but grinding a dungeon multiple times for a little bit of rep was meaningful to you apparently.

    Raids: as I said Karazhan was about the only one which you could finish in a day, I guess assuming one person in your group has a key to all the 5mans required for the quest line...early on, yeah good luck finishing it in one day. lol.

    SSC required some 5man, Kara boss and some other raid boss. If your raid group is all on the same page, I could see all those being done in one day....albeit, an enormously long day. Gated.

    TK would never happen in a day, I still shudder at that chain. Very Gated.

    Hyjal required rep + T5 end bosses. If you did this before they allow people to bypass all other bosses, you'd know it wasn't a days work. A week, sure. You got Gated.
    I don't remember grinding for reps in TBC (outside of netherwing), reputation came naturally via running normal modes of the dungeons and doing quests in the area while leveling. If you didn't do any dungeons while leveling then yeah you probably had to do a bit of grind.

    ALso, when I said you could do the attunements in one day, I was saying that if you were catching up and had a group which mastered the content, you could be attuned in one day (as we did in my guilds for newcomers back in the day, running SSC and TK in one saturday afternoon). Obviously, when we first completed the content, it took longer, but that's because we were trying to complete the content. It wasn't time gating, it was us trying to complete the current content before moving on to the next. It's not time gating, it is content.


    Meaningful questline... Jeez, bit of a stretch there champ Naxx40 entrance was based on rep and it was a horrible pain to grind it out. Gated behind rep. (i still remember a few raiders who, while everybody else were inside they spent hours upon hours grinding out that crap rep. BWL was tedious (hint: not many liked bothering with ubrs). Gated behind long involved quest and no, you didn't complete it in one day usually. MC was easy once you learned the shortcut. Onyxia, gated behind a long quest. All required time.
    I was fine with all of that. As I said, it was content. And those questline were actually great. And I never had any trouble finding groups for UBRS or BRD (including for quest runs).

    It is better than a flat out time gating with no content.

  8. #68
    Legions is the first WoW Expansion I didn't immediately order. Between Cata-WoD, I haven't played much beyond the first tier anyways. I miss the struggle, the sense of reward, and most of all the community.

    WoW has always been "easy" when you played with a solid group of players, but that was part of the reward. You don't have to make difficulties that everyone can do. Sometimes you need that big fat carrot off in the distance that you may never reach. You can argue that Mythics are that "big fat carrot" for most people, but I don't think that's true. When you can snack on carrots (Heroic) or baby carrots (Normal), what motivation do you have for Mythics? If you are wondering, LFR is like carrot juice. You don't even have to chew -- you just have to swallow (and try not to drown in the process).

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