Is Nintendo about to go the way of Sega?

[Tech614]

Nintendo right now still has far, far more money then Sega did during the genesis era which was their pinacle.

In short, no. They're no where close to the financial situation Sega was in during the Saturn and Dreamcast.

[Faroth]

They're not, for a few reasons that are rather uncommon in the video game world.

1. Cash
Nintendo has, for decades, been sitting on an insane amass of wealth. I believe there have been reports estimating that Nintendo could operate in the red for decades and still have money to burn. This allows them to take risks that other companies wouldn't.

2. Nintendo 3DS
They still own the hand held market. While phones have become more and more widely used, the 3DS is still top dog for dedicated handheld devices and still doing extremely well. With Pokemon still selling like hot cakes with each round of release and the madcap craze of Yokai Watch in Japan (yet to really take hold in the West), the system is still trucking along.

3. Diversifying
They're stepping into the mobile market now and if the 10 million users of Miitomo is any indication, they have a market there to capture.

4. Nintendo IPs
With the Sony hack came information that Sony was negotiating with Nintendo for a Mario CG movie. We have word of Netflix working on a live action Zelda film. Nintendo has some strong IPs that they can leverage to make money.

5. Amiibos
Don't ignore the money they're making off these little guys. While they've slowed a bit (I don't think Animal Crossing can carry amiibo forever), there's still a lot they could mine here.

6. NX
On this, we'll have to wait and see. They're saying they intend to have a strong line up at release and prepared for the following year, so we'll just have to see on it.

[Veyne]

Nintendo doesn't seem like it's doing so well anymore. Do you think we will see one of our old gaming Titans join the ranks of Sega in the city of the video game damned?

People have been making this claim since the Wii. They ain't going anywhere any time soon.

[Tech614]

People have been making this claim since the Wii. They ain't going anywhere any time soon.

People have been making this claim since the n64*

Fixed it for you.

Nintendo was doomed before Sega even folded up shop in the hardware market. At least according to the internet. People are hyperbolic and ridiculous when anonymous go figure.

[Life-Binder]

Another one of these threads. Nintendo is fine, You cite the 12.8 mil wii-u sales as a herald of doom, xbox one has only sold under 10 mil to date , original xbox only sold 24 million through its lifetime. With how wildy successful the Wii was they can weather a mediocre console release especially when you consider how well they do in handheld sales

???

Xbox One has sold ~20+ million atm

PS4 is 40+ mil


WiiU is 12-13M+ despite coming out 1 earlier then them


WiiU is a massive failure

[Tech614]

???

Xbox One has sold ~20+ million atm

PS4 is 40+ mil


WiiU is 12-13M+ despite coming out 1 earlier then them


WiiU is a massive failure

We don't know how much the Xbox One has sold since MS never releases hard numbers on it anymore. Last estimate I saw was in the 17 mil range however still just an estimate and nothing concrete.

PS4 is at 40 million shipped, not sold. Last number we got on that was 35.9 million sold but that was months ago and the number is likely a few mil higher now.

Just heads up before throwing out false numbers. Your point is not wrong, but you don't need false numbers to make it so.

[SodiumChloride]

The creators already said that if Nintendo dies, so do the franchises.

Why would that happen? Can't they just produce those franchises for other systems?

Too proud? Even if it means forgoing billions of dollars that can be used to feed the families of its employees?

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???

Xbox One has sold ~20+ million atm

PS4 is 40+ mil


WiiU is 12-13M+ despite coming out 1 earlier then them


WiiU is a massive failure

I doubt the Xbone has sold that much. Most reports estimate the PS4 having 2/3 of the next-gen console market share. That would mean Xbone+Wii U are sitting pretty with only 1/3 ...

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1. Cash
Nintendo has, for decades, been sitting on an insane amass of wealth. I believe there have been reports estimating that Nintendo could operate in the red for decades and still have money to burn. This allows them to take risks that other companies wouldn't.

So tired of explaining capital budgeting to people.

If Nintendo is sitting on an "insane amass of wealth", their shareholders are crazy.

Generally, businesses are asked to hold on to only as much wealth as it is necessary for it to safely operate. Excess cash should be returned to shareholders who can then look for other investment opportunities to get better returns.

This is why I doubt Nintendo has much cash at all.

Even if they did, their shareholders will roast them for wasting their money if they operate in the red.

[Edge-]

I doubt the Xbone has sold that much. Most reports estimate the PS4 having 2/3 of the next-gen console market share. That would mean Xbone+Wii U are stilling pretty with only 1/3 ...

Last "firm" numbers came from EA and are a few months old: http://www.geek.com/games/ea-helps-c...soles-1645943/

So by now they've likely passed 20M sold, but who knows by how much.

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So tired of explaining capital budgeting to people.

If Nintendo is sitting on an "insane amass of wealth", their shareholders are crazy.

Generally, businesses are asked to hold on to only as much wealth as it is necessary for it to safely operate. Excess cash should be returned to shareholders who can then look for other investment opportunities to get better returns.

This is why I doubt Nintendo has much cash at all.

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-has-4.465-billion-in-the-bank-9.168-billion-in-current-assets

Yeah, they've got money in the bank.

[SodiumChloride]

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-has-4.465-billion-in-the-bank-9.168-billion-in-current-assets

Yeah, they've got money in the bank.

But for how long will their shareholders allow them to keep that money.

Shareholders except a return on investment. If you aren't growing that money, and Nintendo isn't at the moment, shareholders will want their money back via dividends.

This happens to every company from Microsoft to Apple. The aforementioned both are paying more dividends now because they aren't growing as much anymore.

[Mormolyce]

I don't think the SEGA situation is even possible for one of the majors in 2016. Things were different in the 90s.

Anyway no. The Wii U alone isn't enough to sink a company, especially when the console before that was their most successful ever. By a large margin.

[Kathranis]

I think they can do well enough financially just by selling people first party Nintendo games and the proprietary hardware that's needed to play them. However, that means that that's all Nintendo is, now. A platform to play Nintendo games on. It's not the destination for developers and gamers, it's the destination for fans of Pokemon and Mario Bros.

I'd rather they just go third party and stop developing hardware altogether. Their strengths all lie in their IPs, not in their technology. Their consoles are always built using dated hardware and have staggered releases compared to the other platforms, so it always drives away third party developers. They still don't seem to realize that what's most important to gamers is having a large library of games, not having unique or interesting peripherals.

[Wondercrab]

Nintendo is still an incredibly lucrative company. The poor performance of the Wii U is far from enough to topple them. It would take multiple failed consoles in a row for that to happen.

[Faroth]

But for how long will their shareholders allow them to keep that money.

Shareholders except a return on investment. If you aren't growing that money, and Nintendo isn't at the moment, shareholders will want their money back via dividends.

This happens to every company from Microsoft to Apple. The aforementioned both are paying more dividends now because they aren't growing as much anymore.

They're profiting, so I imagine shareholders aren't going to kick and scream just yet. $352 million in operating profit, despite 3.9% decrease in sales. Granted, net profits were down, but they aren't going down in flames yet.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wii.../1100-6434408/


Again, they're investing in other avenues. Mobile games, movie and television deals, the new theme park deal with Universal Studios...

Nintendo isn't sink or swim on a single console generation.

[analmoose]

I'm a massive nintendo fan, but have really not supported them at all since the gamecube. I've had a ds and there have been a lot of good games on it, however the consoles have been terrible. Gimmicky annoying controllers / control schemes and childish / babylike games along side obviously inferior system specs has just kept me away from buying a new system. Really loved the idea of super mario maker for the WiiU which almost made me buy one for it but still can't justify it.

Really hope they come back with the NX. The N64 has always been to this day my favourite system, and if they made an N64² I'd buy it in a heartbeat. That weird ass controller was great TBH, the system had a nice look. So many great games. Do it

[Tech614]

They're profiting, so I imagine shareholders aren't going to kick and scream just yet. $352 million in operating profit, despite 3.9% decrease in sales. Granted, net profits were down, but they aren't going down in flames yet.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wii.../1100-6434408/

Exactly, Nintendo has only ever had 2 years where they didn't profit in their history as a traded company. The launch years of the 3DS and Wii U.

[SodiumChloride]

They're profiting, so I imagine shareholders aren't going to kick and scream. $352 million in operating profit, despite 3.9% decrease in sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wii.../1100-6434408/

As long as the money keeps rolling in they are fine - how much money they have in the bank is irrelevant; any business can raise money just by issuing shares and bonds.

That said, their shareholders are probably wondering how much more money they could be making if the franchises were released on 3rd party systems and if they drop the deadweight that is their home console system.

[Edge-]

But for how long will their shareholders allow them to keep that money.

Well, they've yet to force Nintendo to take action at all, as far as I know. And I haven't seen any chatter from anyone, gaming news/analysts/investors etc. in terms of increased pressure making this much more likely.

This happens to every company from Microsoft to Apple. The aforementioned both are paying more dividends now because they aren't growing as much anymore.

Hasn't this exact thing been happening with Apple for years, with Apple more or less giving investors the middle finger and telling them they don't care?

[Deleted]

Not exactly. They still have a strong portable business. They do need to leave the home console market though. Theres nothing else they can accomplish with it... unless they plan it and time it really well. And the timing of the NX ain't it. They need to be in the start line at the same time as everyone else with a system of equivalent power.

[SodiumChloride]

Well, they've yet to force Nintendo to take action at all, as far as I know. And I haven't seen any chatter from anyone, gaming news/analysts/investors etc. in terms of increased pressure making this much more likely.



Hasn't this exact thing been happening with Apple for years, with Apple more or less giving investors the middle finger and telling them they don't care?

Apple could do that because they were growing. Now the grow has slowed, dividend payments have gone up.

Shareholders own Apple, if they want Apple to pay higher dividends, Apple have to comply.

You have to understand that companies are just machines for growing money and exist solely for that purpose. You need to stop seeing them as "people".

[Jtbrig7390]

Nintendo doesn't seem like it's doing so well anymore. Do you think we will see one of our old gaming Titans join the ranks of Sega in the city of the video game damned?

No NX @ E3?

Ummmmm no and anyone who thinks so is a idiot. Yes Nintendo has made some really stupid choices. But they are also sitting on and making more money then Sega could ever dream of.

If any of the big 3 was to drop it would be Microsoft/Xbox. They have yet to make money in there gaming division and Sony is doing well enough now to where they are in the black.

Nintendo will never go 3rd party.

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Yes, but I believe it was about a year ago they even announced the Wii U was selling at a profit? And the 3DS basically printed money. That doesn't even address the massive amount they made from the Wii like pointed out also.

I'm not denying it wasn't a grand hit like Nintendo hoped, and they didn't get much 3rd party support on it (Hence the move to the NX yet again). I'm just saying none of this points to Nintendo shutting down if their next system fails.

To add to this they make money hand over fist with amiibo's..