EU to fine countries 'hundreds of millions of pounds' for refusing to take refugees

[Deleted]

How is a communist website any different than a democratic website, or green website, or a socialist website?

http://www.swedenabroad.com/en-GB/Em...nst-Syria-sys/
2013 the EU lifts the embargo on supplying weapons to Syria.

Mr. Bildt is saying that Sweden is for the political decision and will not supply weapons, but doesn't oppose the lift of the sanctions.
And Sweden is a part of the decision to allow the supply of said weapons (however to be fair I don't know if Sweden had a vote in the decision and was able to influence it or not, don't know the process of decision making in such questions).

But we were talking about libya, not syria. Most refugees in Sweden aren't even syrian.

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Then you shouldn't have signed those treaties (not the EU ones, but the Council of Europe ones).
Also if "no loss of security, ever" is the most important thing for you and trumps everything else, then I hope your guardians take good care of you, because you are obviously living in your own, imagined reality.

We signed the dublin regulation, you know. People should be deported back to the first country they arrive in. Which isn't Sweden, it can't be Sweden, due to our location.

[MCMLXXXII]

You had all this time to object to changes or step out of it.

Things are hard now, that's why they are sceptic of the EU.
It's a rise in right-wing nationalism as a way to kick and scream against the current way things are done.

So one of the 2 Dutch eurosceptic parties, the Socialist Party, are right wing? Lolz

[Noradin]

You don't have to take them just because they want to come. That's the way it functions in the real world. We can deny them.

Not without breaking your treaties, you cannot.
Why should anyone trust you when you break your promises whenever it pleases you after you took advantage of the other side first?

[Deleted]

Not without breaking your treaties, you cannot.
Why should anyone trust you when you break your promises whenever it pleases you after you took advantage of the other side first?

Yes, we can. The dublin regulation means we should be deporting them back to the first country they arrived in. They can't arrive in Sweden as their first country, that's impossible.

[Kalis]

The one that allows them to propose a fine in the first place.
If you think these things aren't legal you are always allowed to bring it to court, that's the beauty of our free society.

That is bollocks, Sweden signed the Dublin agreement, which is the opposite of this. The EU is trying to backdoor a policy that was never meant to deal with this sort of situation.

Foisting something on a nation that they have not agreed to do and have in fact agreed the opposite of, under threat of sanction, is not a free society.

[Noradin]

Except EU should have as much say as China does. Neither should be able to force other countries to abide by their laws. Trying to force laws on other countries like this, is a cause for resentment. In the past, it would be a cause for armed conflict even. EU should have stayed a trade union only. The current shape is not supported by people here in Sweden, with only 39% supporting it now compared to more than 50% in august last year and more than half thinking EU is going in the wrong direction now.

This is not happening, it is just national politicans who pretend it happens to use the EU for a scapegoat while claiming its benefits as their own doing.
No one is forcing laws on EU-memberstates but the EU-memberstates themselves. Do you begrudge them the ability to make their own laws and to make treaties with others? You do know that it is part of their sovereignty to be able to make agreements with others and to delegate tasks -- tasks like proposing laws.

[PassingBy]

But we were talking about libya, not syria.

We were talking about both.
But ok here's on Lybia:

http://www.thelocal.se/20110524/33964

Bildt saying that Sweden shall continue its support to the intervention in Lybia.

[Deleted]

This is not happening, it is just national politicans who pretend it happens to use the EU for a scapegoat while claiming its benefits as their own doing.

That is exactly what is happening.

[MCMLXXXII]

That is bollocks, Sweden signed the Dublin agreement, which is the opposite of this. The EU is trying to backdoor a policy that was never meant to deal with this sort of situation.

Foisting something on a nation that they have not agreed to do and have in fact agreed the opposite of, under threat of sanction, is not a free society.

What I just read quickly about the Dublin agreement that it concerns the country where they first filed asylum and fingerprints are taken. Is that a loophole or are there any sub-articles concerning this?

[Noradin]

Except we didn't join EU in it's current shape. We joined a trade union that's developed into trying to take countries sovereignty away over the years. EU has changed since we joined, and for the worse.

You did, because you took part in forming it the way it is now and took part on every step on the way. You do not get to join a party and then claim "when we joined there was cake, where is it" and blame the others after participating in the feast.

[Deleted]

You did, because you took part in forming it the way it is now and took part on every step on the way. You do not get to join a party and then claim "we didn't join a party where the cake was eaten" and blame the others after participating in the feast.

No, we agreed to the dublin regulations, not this.

[Crispin]

Except we signed the dublin regulations. Which means people should be deported back to the first country they entered. We shouldn't even be receiving any refugees making their way here by land if the dublin regulation was actually enforced, due to our location in Europe. It's impossible that we're the first country.

Except refugees arent seeking asylum or leaving finger prints at the first EU country they enter, in many cases not untill they reach Sweden.

[Kalis]

What I just read quickly about the Dublin agreement that it concerns the country where they first filed asylum and fingerprints are taken. Is that a loophole or are there any sub-articles concerning this?

Not for the current situation it would not work as a loophole, not sure about under normal circumstances.

For example; if Germany wants to shift 10,000 to Sweden, then by definition they must qualify in Germany, so Germany can not do that.

Some countries want to break an agreement they signed up to, which is perfectly fine for them to do so, but demanding that other countries break it under threat of penalty is not fine at all.

[Deleted]

Except refugees arent seeking asylum or leaving finger prints at the first EU country they enter, in many cases not untill they reach Sweden.

That's not needed. It's the country they enter first, unless they have family members here or have residency permits(At which point they wouldn't even have to seek asylum here.) or visas(Which Sweden does not grant to refugees).

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublinf%C3%B6rordningen

Genom Dublinförordningen fastställs att en asylansökan ska prövas, enligt följande prioritetsordning, av medlemsstat där personen (1) redan har familjemedlem, (2) redan har uppehållstillstånd eller visum, (3) först reste in till unionen (första asylland-principen).

[Crispin]

That's not needed. It's the country they enter first, unless they have family members here or have residency permits(At which point they wouldn't even have to seek asylum here.) or visas(Which Sweden does not grant to refugees).

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublinf%C3%B6rordningen

Genom Dublinförordningen fastställs att en asylansökan ska prövas, enligt följande prioritetsordning, av medlemsstat där personen (1) redan har familjemedlem, (2) redan har uppehållstillstånd eller visum, (3) först reste in till unionen (första asylland-principen).

Dont ignore the last bolded part.

[MCMLXXXII]

Not for the current situation it would not work as a loophole, not sure about under normal circumstances.

For example; if Germany wants to shift 10,000 to Sweden, then by definition they must qualify in Germany, so Germany can not do that.

Some countries want to break an agreement they signed up to, which is perfectly fine for them to do so, but demanding that other countries break it under threat of penalty is not fine at all.

But, for example, if the refugees travelled the Greece-route to Germany and never filed asylum or no fingerprints were taken in any of those countries, Germany can't send them back?

[Deleted]

Dont ignore the last bolded part.

I am not ignoring it, that's why I bolded it. It's the first country they entered in the union, which can't be Sweden, due to our location.

[MCMLXXXII]

I am not ignoring it, that's why I bolded it. It's the first country they entered in the union, which can't be Sweden, due to our location.

It's the first country where they filed asylum and fingerprints were taken.

[Noradin]

I understand that, and the system doesn't seem right to me. Effectively EU serves as a democratic government with states as its members. So if the majority of states wants to enforce something (roughly speaking; not exactly true, but it is the idea), others have to oblige - which violates their sovereignty. Granted, UN does the same on a more global scale - but, at least, UN cannot just make up demands like the one in the OP, unless they are explicitly required by the law.

No it doesn't violate their sovereignty, because it is an expression of their sovereignty to make trades.
They wouldn't have sovereignty if they couldn't make compromises with others.
They already used their sovereignty to promise to oblige the majority, retroactively taking that away would mean they aren't sovereign to make promises -- which would make them incapable of functioning internationally and essentially strip them of what constitutes a country.

[Deleted]

It's the first country where they filed asylum and fingerprints were taken.

It doesn't state that this is needed in the regulations at all, it just states first country in the union that they enter. Which can't be Sweden, unless they somehow teleport here.