A very simple and useful ''hard fact'' about catering to only one demographic.

[sarahtasher]

I'm from Québec, where, you might have heard or not, we have a separatist/independantist movement, the PQ. The PQ, since 1975, have increasingly struggled to secure the vote, even with widely impopular other candidates.

In Quebec, there is not really an equivalent to ''WASPs'' (if only because even the most rabid nationalist realize plainly that most Québécois have an Irish or Scot in their ancestry), what matters is speaking French as a first language and/or at home. It does usually means ''my ancestors were the French settlers of Nouvelle France''.

Basically, thus, the demographic for the PQ is the 75%-78% Québécois that are French speaking at home. And before someone goes on dangerous migrants, Quebec is around 89% white (even if for most of it's history, French Canadian were not considered ''really white'', but I disgress)

Therefore, it should be very easy for the PQ to win elections, even if it's policies are remarkably hostile to 22% of the population-who can merely move to other provinces (they do) as opposed as emigrate to other countries. As the non-French speakers are overwhelmingly concentrated in a single city (Montréal) and we have a parliamentary system,it should be even easier to secure majorities in the provincial ''state''house (as rural ridings outnumber urban ones)

Well, here are very basic math.

The PQ have stagerring levels of impopularity amonst non French speakers, ones that make the Republican numbers amongst minorities groups look solid. It's well below 10% and probably below 5%. If say there was 1000 voters in Québec....

220 would be English speakers
780 would be French speakers.

Let's say that the PQ manage to nab 20 English speakers (a widely optimistic evaluation), that means that for securing the majority (NB : an irrelevant question most of the time in Québec when said like this, as the PQ needs to win the vote in each riding, not ''provincially-and out of Montréal, most ridings have around 95% and up French speakers...but the alpha and the omega of the PQ, a separatist referendum , would be counted ''provincially), that means that for securing 50% of the vote, the PQ would need....

(500) target = (20) English Speakers + (480) French Speakers

And here is the crux of the problem : 480 out 780 means a stagerring and hard to reach in genuine Western democracy 61% of the vote in the target demographic (while there are 4 parties in Québec, the two nationalist ones keep scoring, together, between 40% of the overal vote, slightly over 50% of the vote amongst the core demographic)

To further push the comparison with the Republicans, the PQ have been more and more associated to one political current-the left in this case. Surprisingly, this mean that right-leaning French speakers are not voting for the PQ in increasing numbers.

TLDR : even with an overwhelming majority (well over 75% for Québec), it's impossible to win elections while both catering to exclusively one demographic and one end of the political spectrum.

[Deleted]

Isn't the bloc seen as a joke for having zero plans what to do with independence... I admit my info is out of date since I don't follow Canadian politics much. I recall Quebec being the province with the highest spending costs with the least amount of results to show for it...

The blocs problem seems to be more they have zero idea what to do if they actually win... Independence would mean economical collapse followed shortly after by war as Canada fight to regain control of its ports..

[sarahtasher]

The Bloc have nothing to do with the PQ....and even the Tories never said anything about invading Québec to regain control of the harbours....


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The Bloc have nothing to do with the PQ....and even the Tories never said anything about invading Québec to regain control of the harbours....


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That was simple an example of how catering to even very sizable majorities don't cut it when minorities (once again, in Quebec, those minorities are English speaking whites, not dangerous foreigners) are hating your program....

[Jayburner]

Thanks Trudeau

[sarahtasher]

Thanks Trudeau

If you wonder, the Tories, the Liberals and the NPD all have the brainpower to at least not make campaigns on the back of minorities. As said on other Trudeau threats, the mode in Canada is in any case not to hate Muslims or Mexicans, but Québécois.

[Jayburner]

If you wonder, the Tories, the Liberals and the NPD all have the brainpower to at least not make campaigns on the back of minorities. As said on other Trudeau threats, the mode in Canada is in any case not to hate Muslims or Mexicans, but Québécois.

I was talking about the dad Pierre..i'm old.

[Belize]

What part of Québec are you from? La ville de?

[sarahtasher]

What part of Québec are you from? La ville de?

The 99% white and 99% french speaking Québec City (where the PQ keep failling to have MPs)

[Belize]

The 99% white and 99% french speaking Québec City (where the PQ keep failling to have MPs)

Hey, there's more than 1% minorities in the city! As my grandma that still lives there says "They're surprisingly nice and decent people!"

(I'm from Beauport, or well... what it was known as before they merged everything, and renamed half the goddamn streets.)

[sarahtasher]

Hey, there's more than 1% minorities in the city! As my grandma that still lives there says "They're surprisingly nice and decent people!"

(I'm from Beauport, or well... what it was known as before they merged everything, and renamed half the goddamn streets.)

Of course, I was trying to summarize the question. But the point is, Québec City should be the perfect recruiting ground for the PQ-there a very little to none of those pesky minorities who systematically vote Liberal. Yet, Québec City keep rejecting the PQ...

[Endus]

TLDR : even with an overwhelming majority (well over 75% for Québec), it's impossible to win elections while both catering to exclusively one demographic and one end of the political spectrum.

The big issue is that the PQ hasn't really had a huge representation even among the majority-francophone population. That's why they've lost each separation referendum; there just isn't the popular will to see their policies put into effect.

I mean, I have issues with their language-protection policies over and above the separatist agenda, too; I understand they're worried that English would "creep in", but it's gonna do that anyway, and you end up with a culture that's antagonistic to English in strange ways, ways that don't exist in the other direction outside of Quebec, either.

If they took a stance based more on Quebec the province, and less on French the linguistic cultural identity as expressed as an antagonistic distinction to everyone else, they'd be more successful, IMO. That's why they get very little support outside the Francophone community; they don't have much if anything to offer them.

More realistically, I don't see why they have a role in national politics. Provincial, sure. But national? Makes little sense.

Isn't the bloc seen as a joke for having zero plans what to do with independence... I admit my info is out of date since I don't follow Canadian politics much. I recall Quebec being the province with the highest spending costs with the least amount of results to show for it...

It's less that, and more that they don't acknowledge certain legal facts. For one, they often don't want to admit that Labrador is part of Newfoundland, not Quebec. Not all of them, but enough that this is still a "thing"; http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...order-1.639001

For two, the last major separatist referendum, it came out that the Native peoples of Quebec still had official treaty rights to much of the land in Quebec; it was never formally acquired by Quebec or Canada. So, as Canadians, they're part of Canada, but their lands are theirs, not Quebec's.

The whole thing would be a giant nightmare even for separatists, which is why it never really gets off the ground.

[Jayburner]

The big issue is that the PQ hasn't really had a huge representation even among the majority-francophone population. That's why they've lost each separation referendum; there just isn't the popular will to see their policies put into effect.

I mean, I have issues with their language-protection policies over and above the separatist agenda, too; I understand they're worried that English would "creep in", but it's gonna do that anyway, and you end up with a culture that's antagonistic to English in strange ways, ways that don't exist in the other direction outside of Quebec, either.

If they took a stance based more on Quebec the province, and less on French the linguistic cultural identity as expressed as an antagonistic distinction to everyone else, they'd be more successful, IMO. That's why they get very little support outside the Francophone community; they don't have much if anything to offer them.

More realistically, I don't see why they have a role in national politics. Provincial, sure. But national? Makes little sense.



It's less that, and more that they don't acknowledge certain legal facts. For one, they often don't want to admit that Labrador is part of Newfoundland, not Quebec. Not all of them, but enough that this is still a "thing"; http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...order-1.639001

For two, the last major separatist referendum, it came out that the Native peoples of Quebec still had official treaty rights to much of the land in Quebec; it was never formally acquired by Quebec or Canada. So, as Canadians, they're part of Canada, but their lands are theirs, not Quebec's.

The whole thing would be a giant nightmare even for separatists, which is why it never really gets off the ground.

it's like they can't figure out how to get out of the 1700's. So much mess there.