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  1. #21
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tydrane View Post
    Uh... You don't at all see the irony in this post?
    I mistyped, I mean I'll be voting to remain. If the irony is greater than that...well I don't care. I guess you're implying that I am selfish for wanting a remain vote for my own reasons. Frankly, I blame England for breaking my country in the first place so I don't really care if England is kept in by the votes of the Celts. Would be a certain irony in that...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kardagh View Post
    literally going to do nothing to complicate your life, you can still travel south of the border to the ROI no problem.
    Oh but it will.

    Simply crossing the border is just the start.

    Taxes, trading standards, and employment are built upon both nations being the EU. Workers from the Republic of Ireland with jobs in Northern Ireland will not be best pleased to be told that they now require a work permit and vice versa. Companies will not enjoy being told that they must sponsor those visas.

    Suddenly travelling over the border to buy some stuff becomes importing or exporting goods to or from within the EU to outside of it, and you become liable for customs duty.

  3. #23
    Warchief Tydrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I mistyped, I mean I'll be voting to remain. If the irony is greater than that...well I don't care. I guess you're implying that I am selfish for wanting a remain vote for my own reasons. Frankly, I blame England for breaking my country in the first place so I don't really care if England is kept in by the votes of the Celts. Would be a certain irony in that...
    The irony I was referring to, was referring to a 'Brexit' as "selfish" and then citing selfish reasons for determining your manner of voting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Didn't help that he had Sky Admiral Warcrimes McEvillaugh flying his airship for him.
    hi im tydrane from dranasuss

  4. #24
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    Britain is going to leave, there is nothing stopping that. Dark Times aproach for EU. Collapse inevitable.

  5. #25
    Britain leaving the EU would be a huge notch on the "should I move there?" list for me. It'll be years until someone in my shitty little country conjures up the balls to propose we do the same.

  6. #26
    Warchief Tydrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekin View Post
    Britain is going to leave, there is nothing stopping that. Dark Times aproach for EU. Collapse inevitable.
    We can only hope! If I'm being generous, the EU was a worthwhile experiment that has both failed and outlived its' usefulness. If I'm being realistic, it was an exercise in megalomania driven by a relatively small cabal of individuals who believe they know how you ought to live your life better than you do. Every nation already has enough of those, no need to add a supra-national body to the mix.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Didn't help that he had Sky Admiral Warcrimes McEvillaugh flying his airship for him.
    hi im tydrane from dranasuss

  7. #27
    It just goes to show that the Establishment are not going to let the people of this country have a fair and honest debate. The people want facts (pros n cons), not opinions or guesswork, and both sides are only talking bullshit and trying to out-scare each other, including the latest scare tactic, WW3 this morning. I think it's going to backfire on the Government and probably going to make people even more skeptical about what politicians are telling them....

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kardagh View Post
    /snicker

    Ah yes the loony lefty controled BBC. Can't think of any compelling arguments to throw against the leave camp? "NAH M8 THEY'RE ALL RASIST" It's pretty telling of the political climate of this country when the be-all and end-all of arguments have devolved into how fast you can quote mine your opponent into making them sound as if they've said an "OFFENSIVE" remark.
    It is, unfortunately, an effective strategy. You only need to look at some of the threads on this site to see how out of touch a lot of people actually are. Especially those who live in an area unaffected by the negative aspects of 'cultural enrichment' from certain parts of the world. The world's resources aren't infinite and a country's resources are much more valuable.

    Which makes it rather bizarre that people are celebrating even more money being thrown at lost causes when so many natives are suffering as a result of an already strained and bloated nation. The people who pat themselves on the backs for being 'progressive' are often the same celebrities and politicians who live in gated communities far from the reality of what is being brought about by the EU's meddling and the recent rise in immigration from certain parts of the world.

  9. #29
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tydrane View Post
    The irony I was referring to, was referring to a 'Brexit' as "selfish" and then citing selfish reasons for determining your manner of voting.
    Brexit is a selfish act. The act of an older generation of voters possessed of a rampant xenophobia and a sickening little englander attitude that has been indulged for far too long. They find it far too easy to blame everyone, from other Europeans to Muslims to ANY immigrant for any and all problems that affect their lives. In everything they see the hand of Europe, from political correctness to greater level tolerances in society.

    'Stop the world!' they cry, ready to embrace the splendid isolation of their dreams. They peddle soap bubble fantasies about how WONDERFUL it will be outside the European Union despite the fact anyone of any substance whatsoever is desperately pointing out what a monumentally stupid idea it is. And how is each of these figures treated? National leaders, senior economists, war veterans are all dismissed as not knowing what they are talking about. In fact, Brexiters are spending so much time attempting to discredit those who are promoting Remain that they haven't had the time to produce actual facts supporting their vision for Brexit.

    It's always 'this person is wrong' or 'that person has an agenda'...never 'here are the multiple world leaders of note supporting us. Here are the heads of multiple organziations of note supporting us'. It's always talking down the people puncturing their pet dreams.

    And it's not even Brexit! It's England's exit, dragging the rest of the UK along. Scotland doesn't want to go. Most of Northern Ireland doesn't want to go. I'm not sure about Wales to be honest.

    But yes, it's monumentally selfish. And I hope the leavers lose.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxy View Post
    It just goes to show that the Establishment are not going to let the people of this country have a fair and honest debate. The people want facts (pros n cons), not opinions or guesswork, and both sides are only talking bullshit and trying to out-scare each other, including the latest scare tactic, WW3 this morning. I think it's going to backfire on the Government and probably going to make people even more skeptical about what politicians are telling them....
    the problem is, there is no "Facts" as such.

    its a choice between the current status quo or the unknown. the unknown being reliant on our leaders negotiating skills and the petty mindedness of the EU.

    We don't know what we would actually lose or gain, its all hypothetical and down to negotiation. But it seems that as always, politicians are sprouting shit to appease whoever is lining their pockets

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardagh View Post
    A brexit won't break the UK up, far from it really. The Scots rejected independence and a rejection of the EU would only serve to bind the nation together even more.
    One of the main Better Together campaign points was that we would lose our EU membership and would take 5 years to regain our EU status........So no it wouldn't bind us more together. If we are better together as one nation with a bigger economic drive, why would leaving the largest marketplace in the world, where we do our most trade, in any way benefit us?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Brexit is a selfish act. The act of an older generation of voters possessed of a rampant xenophobia and a sickening little englander attitude that has been indulged for far too long. They find it far too easy to blame everyone, from other Europeans to Muslims to ANY immigrant for any and all problems that affect their lives. In everything they see the hand of Europe, from political correctness to greater level tolerances in society.
    Your clueless.

    I'm 53 and I've never had a say in anything to do with the Common Market, EEC or EU. I am NOT a rampant xenophobe or racist and I don't care about the Old British Empire anymore and most people don't either.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    opinionated BS
    Somehow, I think your allowing your hatred of the English to cloud your judgement. But before you go full on, remember. Without UK trade, your beloved Ireland IS 100% without a doubt fucked.

    So dont be so fast to bash so hard on us "selfish Englanders" Especially given that we are @85% of the UK population

  14. #34
    Dreadlord zmp's Avatar
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    I read that David Cameron is advocating a stay within EU for safety reasons, that it will be easier to combat ISIS.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakazam View Post
    One of the main Better Together campaign points was that we would lose our EU membership and would take 5 years to regain our EU status........So no it wouldn't bind us more together. If we are better together as one nation with a bigger economic drive, why would leaving the largest marketplace in the world, where we do our most trade, in any way benefit us?
    because noone has issues with the trade aspect, which will almost certainly be kept in one way or another post exit. Its all the other bullshit people want out from

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    From what I've gathered so far on the debates on each side, according to BBC news and its completely unbiased news reporting -

    REASONS TO STAY -
    IF we leave, all of Europe will stop trading with us out of spite. Because that's how business works.
    If we leave we'll all be a month's salary worse off each year... for unexplained reasons.
    If we leave then it'll "endanger peace" and we'll all go to war with.. errr... Poland? Russia? I don't know.
    Obama thinks we should stay and he's cool! Also he's black too! Maybe USA could join too if Obama thinks giving so much control over your laws to a different country is such an amazing idea. That sounds like something they'd really be up for.

    REASONS TO LEAVE -
    IF you're a racist and hate everyone that's different from you, then this is what you should vote. At the end of the day all of the "debates" around Immigration just come down to how racist you are really.



    (I'm genuinely not decided one side or another yet, this is more a comment about how pathetic all the arguments either way are at the moment)
    Any economist claiming they know the out come is lying, therefor you need to be open to the possibility that things won't all work out. The against camp is also banking on that britain can remain and keep all its current deals and position, which is a very big gamble. they also intentionally ignore that the flexible migration inside the EU has actually served them quite well and that now their infrastructure was never renewed and kept up to date to meet the requirement of the immigration stream of back in the early 00's.

    The world continues to globalize falling back on protectionism is generally speaking a bad thing, especially when boxing up against the big players. And that's one thing that is certain, you are stronger as a large block.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    If the EU was truly reformed, I'd gladly stay, but I don't see a reformation occurring, I just see it falling apart. If the UK does leave, chances are other nations will see a surge in support for leaving too, as they'll soon have to start footing to bill we're not covering.
    If the UK wants to remain in the EFTA after leaving the EU, we will still have to pay a membership fee (except we would have vastly less say in trade regulations). Just like Norway does right now.

  18. #38
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxy View Post
    Your clueless.

    I'm 53 and I've never had a say in anything to do with the Common Market, EEC or EU. I am NOT a rampant xenophobe or racist and I don't care about the Old British Empire anymore and most people don't either.
    I am far from clueless. At 53, maybe you should know better than to support the pet project of the right wingers who wish to free us from such horrible burdens as the social chapter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    Somehow, I think your allowing your hatred of the English to cloud your judgement. But before you go full on, remember. Without UK trade, your beloved Ireland IS 100% without a doubt fucked.

    So dont be so fast to bash so hard on us "selfish Englanders" Especially given that we are @85% of the UK population
    I don't hate the English, I just heartily dislike the Tory/Ukip supporting voting blocs who seem to think they are God's gift to the world and that the world should accomodate them at all costs.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2016-05-09 at 05:26 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    because noone has issues with the trade aspect, which will almost certainly be kept in one way or another post exit. Its all the other bullshit people want out from
    You mean like the European Convention on Human Rights............

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekin View Post
    Britain is going to leave, there is nothing stopping that. Dark Times aproach for EU. Collapse inevitable.
    There is next to zero chance the UK will leave the EU.

    Main simple reasons:

    1. It has all the benefits, control and influence in the EU yet the least downsides in the EU both now and in the future (constant opt-outs ftw)
    2. The EU is the largest trading partner, especially in goods. This translates to at least one in ten UK jobs directly associated with EU
    3. Most non-financial Foreign Direct Investment into the UK assumes the UK would be an integral part of the EU both now and in the future. That includes investment from US, EU itself and China (UK is largest recipient of China investment in EU). Leaving threatens almost all existing foreign investment and future investment
    4. Without a bloc like the EU, the UK's influence will eventually wane to almost nothing in an increasingly globalized world (EU bloc alone is 500m+ vs 64m). This is because the decrease in influence is a vicious cycle
    5. Without a bloc like the EU, the UK's jurisdiction and democratic sovereignty will be assaulted on all sides from much more powerful influences. If you think global treaties like CETA and TTIP would somehow be more carefully negotiated in your favor outside of such a bloc (that can be blocked by any single member of the EU), you'll shortly be licking your wounds and begging anyone anywhere to collaborate for a stronger negotiating position, while your domestic population revolts you out of office for the utter loss of sovereignty.

    Finally, if really don't have a single clue understanding any of the fundamental reasons above why the UK will never leave the EU as it currently exists, just understand collective human behavior: when there is less to risk with the status quo, the onus is on the alternative to prove itself better. Brexit has no way to do that at all.

    TL;DR. People collectively almost never vote against the status quo, i.e. for change, when it is clearly more risky.

    You can quote me on this after 23rd June!
    Last edited by mmoc83df313720; 2016-05-09 at 08:39 PM.

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