A plea to retain embers in Legion

[Nhiosis]

Hello,

I would have posted this in the official class alpha forum but apparently you cannot without access to the alpha itself.

I'll be brief, the visual effect attached to the current ember mechanic of being on fire and having the spheres surround your character is incredible. What could be more thematical to destruction? All this jazz about class fantasy, well the fantasy is already built in so please do not remove it.

I understand if they want to change the resources to shards ( though I do not agree ), but at the very least please allow us to glyph the ember visual effect in Legion.

At this point, it seems as if fire mages are the direction they want old destro players to go. Thematically, they are much more appealing, though I could never make myself switch. aesthetically they are looking far superior ( IMHO) to most of the warlock spells, and have a much more clear direction in terms of class fantasy.

Thank you, please post a reply if you support this and maybe just maybe an alpha access player can repost / blues will see it.

[Wondercrab]

I completely agree. I have no idea why burning embers were removed, since it seems to fly directly in the face of everything at the core of the design document for class fantasy in Legion. It's almost universally agreed that randomly generated shards are a step back from the granular generation of embers on a mechanical level, and on top of that they also serve to homogenise the feel of the warlock specs and remove one of the coolest visual effects in the game.

Everything about the removal of burning embers is just utterly baffling to me. It feels like a decision that was made on the thinnest of whims without any kind of forethought. It's the kind of class design that I find genuinely frustrating, because it feels like an intentional regression of the spec into something less fun and flavourful.

[Thelxi]

I agree too. It is just strange that they would mess with embers. Change for the sake of change? it's as if they are clueless as to which of their designs are actually successful.

[Nhiosis]

I completely agree. I have no idea why burning embers were removed, since it seems to fly directly in the face of everything at the core of the design document for class fantasy in Legion. It's almost universally agreed that randomly generated shards are a step back from the granular generation of embers on a mechanical level, and on top of that they also serve to homogenise the feel of the warlock specs and remove one of the coolest visual effects in the game.

Everything about the removal of burning embers is just utterly baffling to me. It feels like a decision that was made on the thinnest of whims without any kind of forethought. It's the kind of class design that I find genuinely frustrating, because it feels like an intentional regression of the spec into something less fun and flavourful.

This has also been bothering me. I look at many of the other class redesigns ( spriest, mages, ele to name a few) and I feel like they really sat down and thought about the mechanics and how to rework them to be more interesting and engaging. All along the way, we kept getting this BS about destruction being in a " good spot".

Granted, I'm not in the beta but I've tried to gather as much as I can from a few hours of youtube footage, and it seems like they just aren't sure how to direct destruction at this point. It's like they gave fire mages all of the cool stuff surrounding being a caster who deals with fire, and destro is just this weird out of place spec with no real seat at the table. I would just as soon they rebuilt destruction from the ground up like they did with shadow priest at this point.

Ultimately though I fear that what we see now will pretty much go live, the minimal interactions with the alpha testers on the main forums compared to other specs is worrisome and indicative that they just don't care that much about it. All of their eggs went into rebuilding demo for legion.

[Gaidax]

So basically you don't care whether these are Burning Embers, Soul Shards or Happy Stars, as long as the verdant spheres and glow stays?

Then just say so in title for starters...

[Al Gorefiend]

Burning Embers themselves weren't all that appealing to me.

The gradual visual effect I will cry hard if they remove that. As a Goblin lock, being constantly on fire and exploding things was the perfect aesthetic.

[Mirishka]

I agree too. It is just strange that they would mess with embers. Change for the sake of change? it's as if they are clueless as to which of their designs are actually successful.

Change for the sake of change seems to be the motif in Legion. While some of it sticks (I love Outlaw spec, for example), other class changes just suck - like BM spec. Can't stand it.

[Vimpe]

I'm sure there will be a glyph for it

[Wondercrab]

This has also been bothering me. I look at many of the other class redesigns ( spriest, mages, ele to name a few) and I feel like they really sat down and thought about the mechanics and how to rework them to be more interesting and engaging. All along the way, we kept getting this BS about destruction being in a " good spot".

The most perplexing thing is that Destruction was one of the best designed specs the game has ever seen (on a mechanical level at least -- not so much in terms of tuning) back in MoP. The interaction between mana and burning embers, the natural ebb and flow of the rotation, the amount of buttons you had to press during movement, and the "easy to learn, hard to master" gameplay of lining up cooldowns and procs with a generous pool of embers to spend. It was smooth as silk and just beautiful to play, packed with flavour and very unique compared to other specs. Since the end of MoP, however, it feels as though they've been slowly dismantling what was a near-perfect spec.

[Halwyn]

It's actually funny the guy missing the VISUAL of embers, not the gameplay they provided. Go figure?

[Nhiosis]

It's actually funny the guy missing the VISUAL of embers, not the gameplay they provided. Go figure?

I'll absolutely miss the gameplay they provide. I'm just smart enough to know blizzard isn't going to revert a change so big at this point. Their minds are made up. The best compromise would be the aesthetic at this point.

[Bryntrollian]

From soulshards to burning embers to soulshards again, what a joke

[Sylar Hao]

The most perplexing thing is that Destruction was one of the best designed specs the game has ever seen (on a mechanical level at least -- not so much in terms of tuning) back in MoP. The interaction between mana and burning embers, the natural ebb and flow of the rotation, the amount of buttons you had to press during movement, and the "easy to learn, hard to master" gameplay of lining up cooldowns and procs with a generous pool of embers to spend. It was smooth as silk and just beautiful to play, packed with flavour and very unique compared to other specs. Since the end of MoP, however, it feels as though they've been slowly dismantling what was a near-perfect spec.

I couldn't explain it better myself.

MoP Destro was the best spec ever in the game. Mechanics, looks, fantasy, everything matched so so so well... The mana-energy, the reduced GCD, the fast-paced spells, the flow of pooling and spending Embers, Havoc as one of the most interesting spells ever, the Aoe from F&B and RoF... the 4 million damage chaos bolts in SoO... Granted the spec was a bit overtuned, but that's something that can be adressed... WoD messed many things up but still kept the same essence form MoP Destro.

So why do they fix that's perfect and not broken? Blizzard logics. In my opinion the spec fantasy of MoP Destro matches way better than the Legion one.. but it is too late in alpha-beta-whatever stage to go back to burning embers, but if they decided to do a pool, I bet almost 90% of people would prefer MoP Destro over Legion Destro. The new RNG chaotic chaos from masteries, spells, talents and arctifact traits look good on paper... and it only evens out on long fights, but in short fights or PvP all this RNG is gonna take a high toll for the spec.

Also, yes, the visual from engulfing yourself in flames as you get embers... gee, I'm gonna miss it so much...

[Clovedoper]

I couldn't explain it better myself.

MoP Destro was the best spec ever in the game. Mechanics, looks, fantasy, everything matched so so so well... The mana-energy, the reduced GCD, the fast-paced spells, the flow of pooling and spending Embers, Havoc as one of the most interesting spells ever, the Aoe from F&B and RoF... the 4 million damage chaos bolts in SoO... Granted the spec was a bit overtuned, but that's something that can be adressed... WoD messed many things up but still kept the same essence form MoP Destro.

So why do they fix that's perfect and not broken? Blizzard logics. In my opinion the spec fantasy of MoP Destro matches way better than the Legion one.. but it is too late in alpha-beta-whatever stage to go back to burning embers, but if they decided to do a pool, I bet almost 90% of people would prefer MoP Destro over Legion Destro. The new RNG chaotic chaos from masteries, spells, talents and arctifact traits look good on paper... and it only evens out on long fights, but in short fights or PvP all this RNG is gonna take a high toll for the spec.

Also, yes, the visual from engulfing yourself in flames as you get embers... gee, I'm gonna miss it so much...

"You think you do, but you don't!" - is the reply we gonna get from blizzard rip destro & demo, i prefer SoO Destro & ToT demo/BRF Demo and now they going to revamp it into all about pet and the god knows how retarded pet AI are, to name one most annoying, jump over a bridge/cliff and see where your pet goes (extremely annoying on arena/BG)

[Stacyrect]

I completely agree. I have no idea why burning embers were removed, since it seems to fly directly in the face of everything at the core of the design document for class fantasy in Legion. It's almost universally agreed that randomly generated shards are a step back from the granular generation of embers on a mechanical level, and on top of that they also serve to homogenise the feel of the warlock specs and remove one of the coolest visual effects in the game.

Everything about the removal of burning embers is just utterly baffling to me. It feels like a decision that was made on the thinnest of whims without any kind of forethought. It's the kind of class design that I find genuinely frustrating, because it feels like an intentional regression of the spec into something less fun and flavourful.

So much this, 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Xandy]

I second that, such an extremely fluid design which is damn near perfect and they decide to go and fk it all up

[Gohzerlock]

Change for the sake of changing at it's worst.

[FoxMaccloud]

I would like that Destruction keeps embers
Affliction shards
and demology demonic fury. Could work like: Call dreadstalker 150 demonic fury

[garonne]

i'd first like to point out that im indifferent about the change they made. i neither love it nor hate it, but when people are saying its change just for change, thats incorrect. the reason for the change is because of the intended design for destruction: chaotic and destructive. with a granular setup of emberbits, it makes the spec orderly hence the new design. with the 15% chance on immolate hits, 30% on immolate crits, 15% on CB and shards from conflag, we have an assortment and chaotic distribution of shards that we gain. that is the reason for the change.

[Duckz0rs]

Just give us the damn visual back. Removing that was completely uncalled for and kind of makes me feel they took our toys and gave it to someone else (Mage's Combustion visual). Part of the "Class Fantasy" they keep harping on about is that Arcane is Order and Fel is Disorder. So why do mages become engulfed in flames, but the user of chaotic magic doesn't?

Mechanically, embers are just not coming back anymore. Sure, I'll miss the granularity of embers like most other people, but it's probably just a lost fight at this point. The new soul shards don't seem as bad as everyone makes them out to be. It's RNG but they seem to be coming in in heaps from what I've seen/heard so far (which, you know, is still anecdotal and less useful than a first-hand experience).