Why bring DK DPS in legion?

[Synadrasa]

The real question is who will be the top dps next expansion. Mage or Warlock?

[Leviatharan]

Looking towards how legion raiding will play out, as for mythic raiding and being capped to 20 players, why bring DK DPS? We lose grip, and provide basically zero utility outside of bres, which can be done by other classes with more utility.

... I'm only seeing like 4 other melee classes who have any kind of raid utility other than CC anymore (and as you said, at least we have Brez). Blessings, Rallying Cry, Stampeding Roar/Rebirth, Bloodlust... unless I'm missing something.

Maybe you could count the healer-hybrids with cleanses too, but they'll just macro those to themselves anyway.

[Deleted]

... I'm only seeing like 4 other melee classes who have any kind of raid utility other than CC anymore (and as you said, at least we have Brez). Blessings, Rallying Cry, Stampeding Roar/Rebirth, Bloodlust... unless I'm missing something.

Maybe you could count the healer-hybrids with cleanses too, but they'll just macro those to themselves anyway.

Pretty sure DH's have a raid cooldown as well iirc, something to do with melee and spell dodge, it was a shitty one but still something.

[Deleted]

historically this might be a few reasons to bring a DK

1) Dks are typically top Tier DPS for progression (when no ones geared)

2) Unholy is usually such a Safe bet for Single target and AoE (on progression) there is a underlining advantage to having 1 spec that probably will be the best at everything. (as you stated a Arcane mage who must go fire for AoE will inherently be weaker then a UHDK thats always good with a further progressed artifact)

3) Ghoul debuffs if they work for raid members and are unique?

the ghoul debuffs don't work for other players (reduced damage taken & damage done)

[Icedcoffeee]

Some important points:

1. DK dps has historically been extreme because of our poor scaling. We start off the expansion strong, and as gear increases, Blizz is forced to buff us. We end up near the bottom because if Blizz overbuffs us we will be broken at starting gear levels. DKs are near the top dps at 630 ilvl, and are extremely strong in cmodes. All of this is due to scaling, and should presumably be fixed in the next expansion.

2. Death Grip will always be useful.

3. Blizz's improved spec tuning abilities should make the dps outliers less common, meaning a spec's performance will be mostly tied to the type of fight. (Cleave, multitarget, st, high mobility, etc.) Given the trend of add fights, and our excellent passive cleave/aoe, I suspect we will always be near the top DPS wise.

[Deleted]

You can ask the exact same question for a lot of specs.

[InfinityRogue]

Well if the DKs on my raid team were as cynical and negative as you, we wouldn't bring you either. FFS, they're not even done balancing yet, and the hybrid tax has been gone for years. You have no way of knowing where you'll fall on the charts, and you don't seem to have much sense of the utility (or lack thereof) other classes bring.

The hybrid tax isn't gone. It never left. Look at raid dps and you will notice its warlock rogue mage. Blizzard has said many times in blue posts, that if pure dps arent excellent in raid, they have done something wrong.

Check your facts again, because that simply isn't true.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

because we will have strong cleave/ aoe, as well as single target grips (which are still good.) DK Single grips made Sha of Pride a LOT easier as you could grip in the adds from left and right to kill faster.

[Unholyground]

Looking towards how legion raiding will play out, as for mythic raiding and being capped to 20 players, why bring DK DPS? We lose grip, and provide basically zero utility outside of bres, which can be done by other classes with more utility. Our DPS will inevitably be lower than pures, so what do we have that makes us useful in mythics?

The whole "pures" doing more dps was dropped years ago fyi.

[Sarkol]

You must be new to playing a DK? Lol. You ever hear the expression, "The best predictor of future behavior, is past behavior"?

When you end the last 3 xpacs dead last or nearly dead last, you begin to grow rather cynical. Say what you all want about the hybrid tax being gone, but it's rather obvious that Rogues, Mages, Locks, and Hunters have rounded out the top 5-10 specs since I can remember, with a few scarce examples of others breaking in to the to 10. Meanwhile, most of your hybrids are left to pick up the scraps. Intentional or not, it still exists.



So only the top 50 care about performance, analyze logs, and have benches / competition for spots? My guild is just now 12/13 Mythic, we're hoping to get M Archy in the next week or so - and we absolutely encourage people to play the optimal specs of their class and steer away from recruiting "dead" specs / classes... Just like most of the guild ahead of us. I think a more refined way to word your statement would be, "If you don't raid mythic content, you're fine to play whatever you'd like and still find raid spots with a certain degree of ease".

I, personally, am going to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt, moreso this time around than previously, because they changed the rune system, killed the subspec, and have made legitimate design changes. All I'm saying is, it won't surprise me if we end up being shit, like usual.

If you're 12/13 at this point, then it's not specs or classes that are holding you back, at all. It's player skill. My point still stands. The best guilds in the world have players who can squeeze the absolute most out of a character. They play as close to perfect as anyone. Tiny differences in talents, gear and raid setup matter to them. Less relevant the further you go down rankings of guilds.

- - - Updated - - -

The whole "pures" doing more dps was dropped years ago fyi.

No, it actually wasn't. It still happens time and again. If you're a Rogue or Mage, you'll be smashing the metres no matter what at some stage. Blizzard still tunes pures to make sure they have at least 1 spec near the top.

[Baddok21]

The whole "pures" doing more dps was dropped years ago fyi.

when have Mages locks Rogues not had the top 4 DPS specs?.

[tru]

Well since dk is a "hero" class they never suffered the "hybrid tax" which hasnt been a thing for a while anyway. Dk dps just hasnt been OP since wrath and early cata when unholy got reworked some and we have suffered ever since for the most part but weve never been the worst so at least there is that lol.

[Halliax]

Well since dk is a "hero" class they never suffered the "hybrid tax" which hasnt been a thing for a while anyway. Dk dps just hasnt been OP since wrath and early cata when unholy got reworked some and we have suffered ever since for the most part but weve never been the worst so at least there is that lol.

By DK, you mean Unholy, right? Because Frost has been close to the bottom this entire expansion, and more...I would like to see the uproar on these forums if unhloy was on the frost place on the "warcraftlogs" for a entire expansion, and ppl saying "yes, you deal less damage, but you are still viable, so stop the complaining..."

[Deleted]

Frost is usually good at the start of the expansion, frost was also good very early HFC :>
Might change in next expansion because of all the reworking. Feels like frost is going to be the PVP spec
based on artifact traits and talents.

[Halliax]

Frost is usually good at the start of the expansion, frost was also good very early HFC :>
Might change in next expansion because of all the reworking. Feels like frost is going to be the PVP spec
based on artifact traits and talents.

Early HFC = 3 days?

[Deleted]

Early HFC = 3 days?

Yeah I hated is aswell, was all frosted up and ready topping the meters the first few raids and BOOM! Get smacked.

[Deleted]

For our sense of humour

[Baddok21]

Frost is usually good at the start of the expansion, frost was also good very early HFC :>
Might change in next expansion because of all the reworking. Feels like frost is going to be the PVP spec
based on artifact traits and talents.

Dont know how you intend to compete with Unholy without having a MS debuff (our version necrotic wound). 2 death grips. ranged scourge strike (there goes the HB niche).

Frost will have or looks to have good upfront dmg and thats about it (with like 11 different ways to snare a target yaaayyyyy utility) basicly a BG hero.

[Fenrkyr]

Well to be fair, the horrendously toxic RBG "community" put an end to me ever wanting to do any organized PVP, so Ill take a random BG smashing spec over a nuanced 3's spec any day.

[Maxweii]

Going back to the OP and the PvE focus he more or less had, DK's have plenty of utility it's not just "we have gorefiends" now. Dps DK's are in a better spot than we have been in a long while