Nvidia reference cards will now be sold above the MSRP

[Vash The Stampede]

How would AMD launch b4 Nvidia, they would surely have the same issues Nvidia has with supply (assuming there are issues at all, that's stull just speculation at this point) unless they go solely for GDDR5 memory for their new cards, and even then that does not mean they will have enough GPU's.

For one, GDDR5X is not required for the new Polaris cards. They can use both, like Nvidia plans to do with the 1070, AMD will likely do with the 480. Second, AMD helped develop HBM, and will likely get priority over Nvidia. If you look up GDDR3 memory, it was made by ATI/AMD in the past. So you could assume that AMD has top priority with GDDR5X as well. Also memory isn't the only limiting factor. It wasn't long ago that Nvidia tried to trick people with Pascal, when they showed everyone Maxwell. So they clearly didn't have working silicon then, which means these 1070's and 1080's are last minute rushed products. AMD has shown working silicon for some time now on Polaris. AMD also has priority with 14nm FinFET manufacturing due to some agreement they made long ago with Gloablfoundries.

[Denkou]

For the first few weeks these things will sell like motherfuckers. The price will be way above the recommended, as it was with Skylake CPUs.

Demand with outstrip supply by miles, especially if the benchmarks show the 1070 pulls twice the numbers that a 970 does.

Yup, nVidia knows this, and the day-one adopters and dedicated fans will have no problem paying the price premium. I mean, god forbid nVidia try to maximize their profits, right? It may seem shady to some people but it works and that's the bottom line. If people don't like it they can vote with their wallets and not buy nVidia.

Personally I am not a day-one adopter of any tech and I have no problem waiting until prices drop or even until the next generation comes out to buy something. Nor am I loyal to either AMD or nVidia, I buy whichever brand gives me the best performance for the price. I just think this whole issue is being blown out of proportion especially given the fact that we haven't even seen any aftermarket cards yet from any of the big name AIBs and we have NO IDEA how much over MSRP it'll cost, if any more at all. Until we actually see ASUS, Gigabyte, EVGA, etc. come out with their own cards and pricing then this is all purely speculation.

[Deleted]

Yup, nVidia knows this, and the day-one adopters and dedicated fans will have no problem paying the price premium. I mean, god forbid nVidia try to maximize their profits, right? It may seem shady to some people but it works and that's the bottom line. If people don't like it they can vote with their wallets and not buy nVidia.

And god forbid someone calls them out for this practice? I swear, every single day I feel dumber for reading fanboys defensive logic on the Internet.

Newsflash; no company gives a shit about you and as a consequence you shouldn't care in the slightest about their bottom line or act as their shining e-knight. Your only interest should be to get the highest quality product for the lowest investment possible and call them out when their practices are garbage - like nVidia in this case and Intel so many times before.

[Denkou]

And god forbid someone calls them out for this practice? I swear, every single day I feel dumber for reading fanboys defensive logic on the Internet.

Newsflash; no company gives a shit about you and as a consequence you shouldn't care in the slightest about their bottom line or act as their shining e-knight. Your only interest should be to get the highest quality product for the lowest investment possible and call them out when their practices are garbage - like nVidia in this case and Intel so many times before.

Fanboy? It seems you didn't read my post, I said I have no loyalty to either brand. I've owned just as many AMD/ATi cards as I have nVidia cards. I buy whatever gives me the best performance for the price point, period.

You're right, no company gives a shit about you, but whining about their business practices and pricing models on online forums will accomplish nothing. Like I said, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet, and stop buying nVidia products. I'm actually being the opposite of a "shining e-knight" right now, FYI, I'm telling people not to buy their products. I don't give a shit whether or not nVidia makes money, I'm just trying to tell people that this is how the business world works, that nVidia will price it as high as they want to and people will still buy it because they are day-one adopters and/or rabid fanboys.

We are really making the same point here so I don't know why you decided to come at me so sharply, but whatever I guess.

[Vash The Stampede]

You're right, no company gives a shit about you, but whining about their business practices and pricing models on online forums will accomplish nothing.

It's a lot more productive than circle jerking Nvidia's press release. There's a reason for every action ever done. It's important to ask why Nvdia suddenly made the Foundary Edition, cause it doesn't make sense. It's a great money grab on their end, and they're open about. They're not screwing you without lube, and the Lube is actually very pretty with a green color. The Lube is even the Ti edition.

But Nvidia's actions for this launch are suspicious. They clearly don't have enough of these cards to sell, not until June. They brought a bunch of YouTube reviewers to a relaxing vacation press release, and they got to go home with review samples of cards that are hard for anyone to get their hands on. It could be attributed to good marketing, but I think Nvidia is jumping the gun for a very good reason.

Like I said, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet, and stop buying nVidia products. I'm actually being the opposite of a "shining e-knight" right now, FYI, I'm telling people not to buy their products. I don't give a shit whether or not nVidia makes money, I'm just trying to tell people that this is how the business world works, that nVidia will price it as high as they want to and people will still buy it because they are day-one adopters and/or rabid fanboys.

And like other things there are consequences for every action you take. Like if neither the 1070 or the 1080 can be bought due to lack of supply until September, or if AMD's Polaris cards are actually much more amazing then we've been led to believe. Or maybe in their haste to announce and launch these new cards, that maybe there's a bug that 512MB of VRAM isn't working at full speed.

But yet somehow, it still prints money.

[Denpepe]

It's a lot more productive than circle jerking Nvidia's press release. There's a reason for every action ever done. It's important to ask why Nvdia suddenly made the Foundary Edition, cause it doesn't make sense. It's a great money grab on their end, and they're open about. They're not screwing you without lube, and the Lube is actually very pretty with a green color. The Lube is even the Ti edition.

But Nvidia's actions for this launch are suspicious. They clearly don't have enough of these cards to sell, not until June. They brought a bunch of YouTube reviewers to a relaxing vacation press release, and they got to go home with review samples of cards that are hard for anyone to get their hands on. It could be attributed to good marketing, but I think Nvidia is jumping the gun for a very good reason.

And like other things there are consequences for every action you take. Like if neither the 1070 or the 1080 can be bought due to lack of supply until September, or if AMD's Polaris cards are actually much more amazing then we've been led to believe. Or maybe in their haste to announce and launch these new cards, that maybe there's a bug that 512MB of VRAM isn't working at full speed.

But yet somehow, it still prints money.

What I see a lot on these forums lately is a lot of people not trusting anything Nvidia says cuz it's marketing speech or does (and that's fine btw) and are using AMD's marketing to disprove it which is as biased as it's competitors.

Once the cards are launched we will see if supply meets demand and what the prices will be, if I wanted to be snide I could say that it will be easier for AMD to meet demand since the only sell 1 card for each 4 Nvidia sells but I wont do that, I hope AMD succeeds, that might drive prices for my next upgrade down.

As for Nvidia setting their prices higher then their own msrp is in part so they don't compete with their board partners and in part because on older cards they loose money or barely break even like Sony and Microsoft do with their consoles for example.

[Vash The Stampede]

What I see a lot on these forums lately is a lot of people not trusting anything Nvidia says cuz it's marketing speech or does (and that's fine btw) and are using AMD's marketing to disprove it which is as biased as it's competitors.

I don't remember using anything that AMD said to prove or disprove whatever is going with Nvidia. And nobody should take whatever a company says as truth. Both AMD and Nvidia have never said something about their products that were actually true. They were always exaggerated. Look at how hyped AMD's Bulldozer chips were. Or better yet, the amount of Polygons that Sony claimed the PS2 could actually do. Anyone remember that fiasco?

You'd be foolish to believe any values that a company gives you.

Once the cards are launched we will see if supply meets demand and what the prices will be, if I wanted to be snide I could say that it will be easier for AMD to meet demand since the only sell 1 card for each 4 Nvidia sells but I wont do that, I hope AMD succeeds, that might drive prices for my next upgrade down.

The only reason I can think as to why the Founders Edition was created was because they know they have a limited supply. Cause right now, their partners like Asus and etc are probably going to be pissed. And that's never a good thing. Nvidia has some pretty big balls to bite the hand that feeds them.

As for Nvidia setting their prices higher then their own msrp is in part so they don't compete with their board partners and in part because on older cards they loose money or barely break even like Sony and Microsoft do with their consoles for example.

They can't compete with their board partners cause they won't be able to sell theirs for a good while. I'm sure that they too would charge higher than the MSRP, cause that's what they do. Probably until July, the price of the 1080 and 1070 is going to be much higher than their MSRP. Nearly every graphics card ever sold always has a higher listed price than the MSRP. Remember when BitCoin was the new hot, and people bought AMD GPUs to print money? The prices of those cards jumped a lot.

[Denpepe]

For one, GDDR5X is not required for the new Polaris cards. They can use both, like Nvidia plans to do with the 1070, AMD will likely do with the 480. Second, AMD helped develop HBM, and will likely get priority over Nvidia. If you look up GDDR3 memory, it was made by ATI/AMD in the past. So you could assume that AMD has top priority with GDDR5X as well. Also memory isn't the only limiting factor. It wasn't long ago that Nvidia tried to trick people with Pascal, when they showed everyone Maxwell. So they clearly didn't have working silicon then, which means these 1070's and 1080's are last minute rushed products. AMD has shown working silicon for some time now on Polaris. AMD also has priority with 14nm FinFET manufacturing due to some agreement they made long ago with Gloablfoundries.

The memory problem seems to be gone https://www.micron.com/about/blogs/2...-micron-gddr5x if there already was one.

[Vash The Stampede]

The memory problem seems to be gone https://www.micron.com/about/blogs/2...-micron-gddr5x if there already was one.

My statement was a reference to the 970 #ramgate, which actually wasn't caused by the VRAM, but the memory controller. Cause it turns out cutting off a section of their GPU actually disabled a portion of their memory controller.

[Denkou]

The only reason I can think as to why the Founders Edition was created was because they know they have a limited supply. Cause right now, their partners like Asus and etc are probably going to be pissed. And that's never a good thing. Nvidia has some pretty big balls to bite the hand that feeds them.

That's pretty much the only reason I see behind Founders Edition even existing as well. It'll come out first and for the people that absolutely MUST have it day 1, they will buy it. I'd imagine the Founders Edition will be pretty much obsolete after the board partner versions come out; the only people who will really buy it are the people who care about the cooler on it, which I have to admit does look pretty cool but probably not enough to warrant another $100, even if it does yield better performance. I'd imagine the true hardcore people who want to squeeze every last mhz of overclocking out of their cards will get the cheaper AIB versions, rip the cooler off and throw a waterblock on it anyway and still end up fairly close to the price of a Founders Edition.

[Wries]

Having the reference for sale for the entire duration of the product's lifespan is good. I wanted a second 980 at a point but couldn't find a ref. (Micro-ATX, tight sandwich, wanted reference coolers)

Pricing is horrific. Understandable however that they don't want to mess with board partners and thus the pricing on FE makes it a non-competing card. Don't want to end up like 3dfx.

However, yeah, initial price hike is probably mostly about maximizing profit.

[TaintedOne]

However, yeah, initial price hike is probably mostly about maximizing profit.

The board partners can sell founders edition cards as well. You really think Nvidia would risk pissing off their partners by hoarding cards for day one sales ?

That doesnt make business sense to me. They would lose more than they gained in the long run.

the only people who will really buy it are the people who care about the cooler on it, which I have to admit does look pretty cool but probably not enough to warrant another $100, even if it does yield better performance.

I think is the same cooler they have used for several generations now. I don't think they have tweaked it at all but not certain about that in anyway.

[Vash The Stampede]

The board partners can sell founders edition cards as well. You really think Nvidia would risk pissing off their partners by hoarding cards for day one sales ?

That doesnt make business sense to me. They would lose more than they gained in the long run.

But so far, they are hoarding sales for day one sales. Who else can sell these Founders Cards?

They can do it cause they're the King. It's good to be the King. The board partners aren't going to do anything cause what can they do? The 1080 is the fastest GPU on the market, and AMD has nothing to compare. Nvidia is taking advantage of this knowledge.

[TaintedOne]

But so far, they are hoarding sales for day one sales. Who else can sell these Founders Cards?

Any board partner can sell a ref card if they wish to. Its always been this way. Why would this change ?

Founders=reference card

Is there still confusion on what a founder edition is ???

Nvidia is not using the term reference anymore cause they dont want to they replaced it with founders.

Founders edition = Reference design

https://youtu.be/eB1nLydMNvI?t=9m45s

[Vash The Stampede]

Any board partner can sell a ref card if they wish to. Its always been this way. Why would this change ?

Founders=reference card

Is there still confusion on what a founder edition is ???

Nvidia is not using the term reference anymore cause they dont want to they replaced it with founders.

Founders edition = Reference design

https://youtu.be/eB1nLydMNvI?t=9m45s

I don't care about the name. I understand the name, and the reason for changing it, but May 27th is the launch date for the Founders Edition cards, right? When does everyone else get to release theirs? What date?

[TaintedOne]

I don't care about the name. I understand the name, and the reason for changing it, but May 27th is the launch date for the Founders Edition cards, right? When does everyone else get to release theirs? What date?

May 27th

Why would there be two different launch dates ?

Custom cards normally come after the launch date because board partners don't have enough time to design and produce the cards to meet the launch date. Its not some rule imposed by Nvidia that board partners can't release cards on launch date.

With a ref card there is no design phase. Slap an Asus sticker on the box and go. I would expect someone besides Nvidia to be selling cards on May 27th unless (like I commented earlier) Nvidia hoards the ref cards for themselves which would upset their partners.

[Deleted]

Custom cards normally come after the launch date because board partners don't have enough time to design and produce the cards to meet the launch date. Its not some rule imposed by Nvidia that board partners can't release cards on launch date.

Atleast MSI already has custom designs ready of the 1080, and probably 1070 as well. And the others as well, because someone from Nvidia claimed that partners will show their models at computex

And with recent releases, there are often not even reference cards sold.

[TaintedOne]

Atleast MSI already has custom designs ready of the 1080, and probably 1070 as well. And the others as well, because someone from Nvidia claimed that partners will show their models at computex

And with recent releases, there are often not even reference cards sold.

I'm eyeing May 27th with great interest to see who has cards ready and at what price points :P

Will they undercut Nvidia's $699 price tag or use it to justify going over $700 ?

[Denkou]

I'm eyeing May 27th with great interest to see who has cards ready and at what price points :P

Will they undercut Nvidia's $699 price tag or use it to justify going over $700 ?

We'll probably get a wide range of different prices and cards, ranging from the lowest ($599-649) to the top end ($700+ for the fancy OC'ed ones, hybrid/watercooled models, etc.)

I mean, look at this piece of crap Galax 1080 that they revealed. I hate to judge a book by its cover but I'm willing to bet that cooler is probably worse than the Founders Edition one.

http://videocardz.com/59813/first-cu...-400-confirmed

I'd expect this to be what we'll see at the bottom end of the price spectrum. Still, if you don't care what your card looks like and don't OC then it's still faster than current gen cards and will be money well spent. Me personally, I have a windowed case and I'm rather picky about how my card looks and I would never buy the above card based on looks alone. Currently have an Asus Strix GTX 970 in my PC and I'm excited to see what Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI's coolers will look like. EVGA...although their coolers perform very well, I don't find any of the current coolers attractive. They all just look so boring to me.

[Vash The Stampede]

May 27th

Why would there be two different launch dates ?

Custom cards normally come after the launch date because board partners don't have enough time to design and produce the cards to meet the launch date. Its not some rule imposed by Nvidia that board partners can't release cards on launch date.

With a ref card there is no design phase. Slap an Asus sticker on the box and go. I would expect someone besides Nvidia to be selling cards on May 27th unless (like I commented earlier) Nvidia hoards the ref cards for themselves which would upset their partners.

That's what I'm wondering, cause Nvidia's press release was vague on who is releasing cards on May27th. My point is if nobody else has cards ready by that time, Nvidia knows this and is taking advantage of it. And board partners don't need to do anything special but put their sticker on it. Not everything has to be custom. And even if they want to make a custom card, then they can do that later.

But I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens on the 27th.