George Zimmerman - Selling the Gun he used to kill Trayvon Martin

**Stacyrect** · 2016-05-16, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex

Here we go again... oh poor GZ. What a victim!

Most people regardless of the circumstances will feel some level of remorse when taking the life of another person. Justification does not diminish remorse. Having the fortitude and determination to take a life to defend your own or that of another also does not absolve you from experiencing that emotion.

Extremist:
You've mentioned this several times now and falsely accusing me of being leftist.

My political views have nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with how I feel about GZ, this case, or its outcome.

I personally do not own any firearms, but am fervently against any laws that diminish the impact of the 2nd amendment, purely on the grounds that if one can be ignored, they all can.

I also find it laughable that people stockpile arms and ammunition patiently waiting to exercise those rights and use them to defend themselves against the tyranny of the government. (as if the Federal government is would bother walking up to your door armed to the teeth for a fair fight) Drone 1, paranoid redneck 0. But hey if you want to disadvantage yourself so that you can have a jubilee of weapons more power to you.

911 told GZ not to pursue (he ignored)
By ignoring that request/command he found himself in an altercation and someone lost their life.
Was he defending himself? Yes. Could it have been avoided? Absolutely.

On those facts alone I find myself unsupportive and unsympathetic of GZ and his plight.

Then you take his past history with the local PD into account and it starts to look a little more suspicious, possibly even malicious. At the very least question his state of mind.

Observe the golden rule. Don't fucking cry about being labeled while you're slapping those labels on other people. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Most people are 99% bark, 1% bite. Most people will never be in a physical altercation where they are quickly overpowered into a compromised position by a stranger and perceive their life is in immediate danger. It's not about determination or fortitude, it's about survival. You are no longer thinking, you are reacting. Just because GZ hasn't shown the remorse everyone wants him to do, doesn't mean that he can't or won't. People go through guilt (remorse), shame, anger, sadness, resentment, a complete sense of hopelessness even decades after the event, some for the rest of their lives even with therapy. People react in all sorts of different ways to traumatic events and their is nothing to suggest that GZ is doing anything different then people's personal bias. If it were me in his shoes, I'd be permanently stuck in anger and hopelessness.

Sure, GZ coulda went home. It's not to say the same thing wouldn't have happened the next day, week, or month later. Sure the police would have still come that night and MAYBE taken a statement from GZ. Most likely they would have done a drive around the block, quick presence patrol, and then parked for 20 minutes so they can play with their cellphone before speeding recklessly off to their next call. Nothing the police could do or would do that night would have prevented what was a likely and inevitable confrontation between these two. But, your certainly entitled to your opinion.

Lawmakers and police in America are drama queens who have created so many laws with broad reach it's hilarious. You could be literally standing still and breathing and be arrested for disorderly conduct and it's essentially a 100% conviction rate as their is no real defense and is punishable by 6 months to a year in prison. Any misdemeanor arrest, including the assault of a police officer is pretty much a bunch of horse shit anyways. Felony arrests are a different story and even then, their are a lot of cases/instances where that's a bunch of bullshit to. IE: 20 over the limit is reckless driving, having a pocket knife over x inchs, being in the possession of burglary tools (aka common house hold tools and/or tools you would normally keep in your car in case of emergency). It is laughable to say a person arrested in a few instances has a "state of mind"

Deleted · 2016-05-16, 07:42 PM

Is selling your properly illegal? Whether you like it or not, it's a historical item of interest and he's allowed to do with it whatever he wishes.

I couldn't really care less what cry-bullies and moral busy-bodies think about it, unless they're willing to pony up. Then they can have some say in what happens to the weapon.

Deleted · 2016-05-16, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by muto

At least he's selling it so he can't murder anyone else with it. He got away with murder and he knows it.

Acting in self defense which makes it okay

**A dot Ham** · 2016-05-16, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyrect

Observe the golden rule. Don't fucking cry about being labeled while you're slapping those labels on other people. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Most people are 99% bark, 1% bite. Most people will never be in a physical altercation where they are quickly overpowered into a compromised position by a stranger and perceive their life is in immediate danger. It's not about determination or fortitude, it's about survival. You are no longer thinking, you are reacting. Just because GZ hasn't shown the remorse everyone wants him to do, doesn't mean that he can't or won't. People go through guilt (remorse), shame, anger, sadness, resentment, a complete sense of hopelessness even decades after the event, some for the rest of their lives even with therapy. People react in all sorts of different ways to traumatic events and their is nothing to suggest that GZ is doing anything different then people's personal bias. If it were me in his shoes, I'd be permanently stuck in anger and hopelessness.

Sure, GZ coulda went home. It's not to say the same thing wouldn't have happened the next day, week, or month later. Sure the police would have still come that night and MAYBE taken a statement from GZ. Most likely they would have done a drive around the block, quick presence patrol, and then parked for 20 minutes so they can play with their cellphone before speeding recklessly off to their next call. Nothing the police could do or would do that night would have prevented what was a likely and inevitable confrontation between these two. But, your certainly entitled to your opinion.

Lawmakers and police in America are drama queens who have created so many laws with broad reach it's hilarious. You could be literally standing still and breathing and be arrested for disorderly conduct and it's essentially a 100% conviction rate as their is no real defense and is punishable by 6 months to a year in prison. Any misdemeanor arrest, including the assault of a police officer is pretty much a bunch of horse shit anyways. Felony arrests are a different story and even then, their are a lot of cases/instances where that's a bunch of bullshit to. IE: 20 over the limit is reckless driving, having a pocket knife over x inchs, being in the possession of burglary tools (aka common house hold tools and/or tools you would normally keep in your car in case of emergency). It is laughable to say a person arrested in a few instances has a "state of mind"

Well you might wanna go back and point out where I started labeling you. As a general rule I don't start applying labels unless a person labels themselves. You are still under the absolutely false opinions that I am some liberal hippy. I find it laughable... that false assumption makes you lose almost all credibility.

I actually wasn't referring to his criminal history (which should also be taken into account).

I was referring to his many cries of wolf to 911 as a member of his neighborhood watch. Establishes a pattern of him perceiving a threat when there isn't one.

You continue to claim that you view GZ as just some guy, but you are so far up his ass in your attempts to defend him I can't help but think you stand to profit from this gun sale as well.

Remorse is not the same as grief... so your stages here... I just don't even know where to begin. This is just made up, what you are describing (even if it is wrong/incomplete) are the stages of grief and/or loss. This is not remorse.
99% bark, 1% bite
inevitable confrontation
I am sorry but you are just rambling, whether the altercation happened that night, or in the future is irrelevant. Because who is to say an altercation at another time would also result in someones death... unless of course you are agreeing that GZ is just some trigger happy wannabe cop who had an urge to shoot someone, then ya it was just a matter of time. Otherwise an altercation at a different time may have resulted in a mutual understanding. His history suggests otherwise.

You do an excellent job of making the true victim TM out to be the aggressor, the real perp in this case. Ever thought of a career as a defense attorney? People just love to see a victims name dragged through the mud. Though its hardly difficult to point the finger at someone who isn't even alive to defend such an accusation.

Deleted · 2016-05-16, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex

You do an excellent job of making the true victim TM out to be the aggressor, the real perp in this case.

Saint Trayvon the Dead WAS the aggressor. HE is the one who actually attacked first. The Patron Saint of the Neighborhood Watch, Geroge Zimmeran, was found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers. Justice was served twice - once on Saint Trayvon the Dead and once when GZ was acquitted.

Wonder if Saint Trayvon the Dead and Saint Michael Brown the Dead are "aspiring rappers" in whatever place they reside?

[Infracted]

**A dot Ham** · 2016-05-16, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ransath

Saint Trayvon the Dead WAS the aggressor. HE is the one who actually attacked first. The Patron Saint of the Neighborhood Watch, Geroge Zimmeran, was found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers. Justice was served twice - once on Saint Trayvon the Dead and once when GZ was acquitted.

Wonder if Saint Trayvon the Dead and Saint Michael Brown the Dead are "aspiring rappers" in whatever place they reside?

*snipped*

Infracted for Minor Spam

**Stacyrect** · 2016-05-16, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex

Well you might wanna go back and point out where I started labeling you. As a general rule I don't start applying labels unless a person labels themselves. You are still under the absolutely false opinions that I am some liberal hippy. I find it laughable... that false assumption makes you lose almost all credibility.

I actually wasn't referring to his criminal history (which should also be taken into account).

I was referring to his many cries of wolf to 911 as a member of his neighborhood watch. Establishes a pattern of him perceiving a threat when there isn't one.

You continue to claim that you view GZ as just some guy, but you are so far up his ass in your attempts to defend him I can't help but think you stand to profit from this gun sale as well.

Remorse is not the same as grief... so your stages here... I just don't even know where to begin. This is just made up, what you are describing (even if it is wrong/incomplete) are the stages of grief and/or loss. This is not remorse.
99% bark, 1% bite
inevitable confrontation
I am sorry but you are just rambling, whether the altercation happened that night, or in the future is irrelevant. Because who is to say an altercation at another time would also result in someones death... unless of course you are agreeing that GZ is just some trigger happy wannabe cop who had an urge to shoot someone, then ya it was just a matter of time. Otherwise an altercation at a different time may have resulted in a mutual understanding. His history suggests otherwise.

You do an excellent job of making the true victim TM out to be the aggressor, the real perp in this case. Ever thought of a career as a defense attorney? People just love to see a victims name dragged through the mud. Though its hardly difficult to point the finger at someone who isn't even alive to defend such an accusation.

You're certiantly entitled to your opinion. However outlandish it is to me.

Guilt=remorse and is not grief unless all the dictionaries on the internet are suddenly wrong. Was not listing the stages of grief (lol wtf?). Do yourself a favor and look up what people have said about the aftermath of killing someone in self-defense. You will find very common themes, which were listed.

GZ is just some guy who I can very easily walk a mile in his shoes. Trying to offer a different view or opinion to what is obviously an unquestionable condemnation from your part doesn't make me up his ass.

As many people, including myself, have pointed out to you, TM confronted GZ. TM's death was the result of him leaving his house to confront GZ, not the other way around which is why I say it is highly likely that a confrontation between the two would be inevitable. GZ is certainly guilty of being a nosy neighbor, but that's pretty common for people who live in small communities (especially gated ones) and know/socialize with their neighbors and know who their neighbors are not.

You can say TM is the real victim till the cows come home, that is your opinion based upon a subjective personal bias which are in direct conflict of the testimony, evidence and facts in this case. In the end, TM was a victim to his own actions (fact), GZ is a victim from TM's actions and will continue to be victimized by people like yourself and the media (fact).

You are more then welcome to have the last word

**A dot Ham** · 2016-05-17, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyrect

You're certiantly entitled to your opinion. However outlandish it is to me.

Guilt=remorse and is not grief unless all the dictionaries on the internet are suddenly wrong. Was not listing the stages of grief (lol wtf?). Do yourself a favor and look up what people have said about the aftermath of killing someone in self-defense. You will find very common themes, which were listed.

GZ is just some guy who I can very easily walk a mile in his shoes. Trying to offer a different view or opinion to what is obviously an unquestionable condemnation from your part doesn't make me up his ass.

As many people, including myself, have pointed out to you, TM confronted GZ. TM's death was the result of him leaving his house to confront GZ, not the other way around which is why I say it is highly likely that a confrontation between the two would be inevitable. GZ is certainly guilty of being a nosy neighbor, but that's pretty common for people who live in small communities (especially gated ones) and know/socialize with their neighbors and know who their neighbors are not.

You can say TM is the real victim till the cows come home, that is your opinion based upon a subjective personal bias which are in direct conflict of the testimony, evidence and facts in this case. In the end, TM was a victim to his own actions (fact), GZ is a victim from TM's actions and will continue to be victimized by people like yourself and the media (fact).

You are more then welcome to have the last word

Victim. Victim. Victim!

I tell you what, why don't you go follow some random black guy tonight and when he turns to kick your ass... blow him away. I hope your state has stand your ground law for you to hide behind though.

Way to trivialize his past behavior.

Nosy neighbor and overstepping ones boundaries on what is normal and acceptable behavior for a neighborhood watch member are 2 separate things entirely.

911 instructed him NOT to engage or purse. He ignored that advice making him the aggressor. (fact)

Deleted · 2016-05-17, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex

I tell you what, why don't you go follow some random black guy tonight and when he turns to kick your ass.

Being followed doesn't give you the right to turn and kick that person's ass. Even if they're shouting nasty words at you.

What you can do is continue to walk away and call the police on them.

**Fyersing** · 2016-05-17, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex

911 instructed him NOT to engage or purse. He ignored that advice making him the aggressor. (fact)

He ignored that advice. Advice.

An emergency response operator doesn't have the authority to forbid you from confronting someone, and even if that someone is known to have a court order against such contact they're prevented from doing anything other than giving advice which may diffuse the situation while closely monitoring and recording the entirety of the communication. What you're displaying in your post is that you think laws are flimsy and meant to be bent to fit whatever sub-cultural mindset you grew up in and/or around, which isn't how laws work.

It isn't against the law to say things, even offensive things.
It isn't against the law to follow people, for days/weeks/months even, as long as the following is done on public property.

It is against the law to physically assault someone for doing one or both of the above, which is what Trayvon Martin did. It doesn't matter if your particular sub-culture or upbringing says it's alright to hit someone who defames you, or that it's alright to slap a girl who disrespects you... the law says that isn't the case.

The concept of "Urban Culture", or "Feral Culture", isn't going to slap cuffs on me and throw me into a 9 by 9 cell if I don't adhere to every tenet -- "the law", however, will. So excuse most of the working class of this country for not giving a single s**t about poor, "mistreated", "misunderstood" minority cultures.

**stabetha** · 2016-05-17, 12:49 AM