The military flail didn't exist

[Reeve]

Seems reasonable to me. On a medieval battlefield I'd much rather be using a halberd, spear, sword, bow, or mace.

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Swords are literally only good for mowing down peasants and axes are so peasant I'm getting second hand embarrassment just thinking about someone else using them.

Maces and hammers is where it's truly at.

Halberds are similar to axes, and were absolutely useful on a medieval battlefield.

[Macaquerie]

I think hitting your own horse, is mostly necessary when charging. Same for the lance, it is a charging weapon that becomes pretty obsolete once you have hit someone with it and is in the ranks.

I feel like the idea of the glorious cavalry charge that sweeps all before it is a bit of modern fantasy as well. I'm pretty sure the horses would be immediately fucked once they actually got stuck in melee, so the real objective was more to just frighten the enemy and force them to clear out rather than slamming into them as such. And if you do manage to get them to flee you can pick them off rather easily I imagine.

[klogaroth]

I think hitting your own horse, is mostly necessary when charging. Same for the lance, it is a charging weapon that becomes pretty obsolete once you have hit someone with it and is in the ranks.

Not with something like the weapon pictured in the OP.
If you're going to be hitting your horse with most other weapons it's not going to be with the pointy or sharp bits.
That thing with all its spikes bashing against the side or neck of your horse and you're not doing your horse any favours.


In terms of close range combat for cavalry; lancers would usually also have a close range weapon like a sword, although normally unless things had completely gone to cock your cavalry would not be standing still trading melee blows. They would be trying to scatter formations or chasing down/away broken formations.
Standing still on a horse in a bunch of infantry is a great excuse for someone to use one of the worlds oldest weapons, a long pointy stick, to poke holes in you and/or your horse.

[Kathandira]

Lets remember though. When discussing what weapons are better than other weapons, much of this was already decided throughout time. Which is why weapons have evolved in the first place. To say, Swords are better than daggers, or Halberds are better than Axes, you have to consider their time lines.

Weapon A came first, then Weapon B was created specifically to counter it. Then weapon C came to counter weapon B.

There is quite a bit of historical research by scholars which tell of the age in which each weapon was created, and when it ceased to be used due to a new, better weapon hitting the market.

[May90]

Seems reasonable to me. On a medieval battlefield I'd much rather be using a halberd, spear, sword, bow, or mace.

I'd rather operate siege weapons, staying out of battlefield craziness. Or even better - be a king in his castle, sitting on the throne and reading reports!

[klogaroth]

Weapon A came first, then Weapon B was created specifically to counter it. Then weapon C came to counter weapon B.

This weapon C meta sucks. We need a new patch soon.

Overall I'd probably say that for the majority of history the weapon that I feel has been the most useful has been variations on the theme of big pointy stick. Sure some people have put fancy things on the end of their big pointy stick, but they're still big pointy sticks.

[Kathandira]

I feel like the idea of the glorious cavalry charge that sweeps all before it is a bit of modern fantasy as well. I'm pretty sure the horses would be immediately fucked once they actually got stuck in melee, so the real objective was more to just frighten the enemy and force them to clear out rather than slamming into them as such. And if you do manage to get them to flee you can pick them off rather easily I imagine.

Well, yes and no. Depends on the era.

Horses were mostly used by nobility. So they weren't dumb enough to lead the charge. Most horse back combat was ranged, or for flanking large armies.

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This weapon C meta sucks. We need a new patch soon.

LOL! For real. But I heard because of C, A got a buff and was renamed Weapon D and will be the new meta.

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Well, yes and no. Depends on the era.

Horses were mostly used by nobility. So they weren't dumb enough to lead the charge. Most horse back combat was ranged, or for flanking large armies.

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LOL! For real. But I heard because of C, A got a buff and was renamed Weapon D and will be the new meta.

^ this is actually how it worked, and still does today in weapons crafting.

[Reeve]

I feel like the idea of the glorious cavalry charge that sweeps all before it is a bit of modern fantasy as well. I'm pretty sure the horses would be immediately fucked once they actually got stuck in melee, so the real objective was more to just frighten the enemy and force them to clear out rather than slamming into them as such. And if you do manage to get them to flee you can pick them off rather easily I imagine.

Cavalry charges are a great way to break your opponent's line or to turn their flank. Lancers tore some shit up well into the 19th century. Have a look at the Winged Hussars.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hussars.html

[Deleted]

I feel like the idea of the glorious cavalry charge that sweeps all before it is a bit of modern fantasy as well. I'm pretty sure the horses would be immediately fucked once they actually got stuck in melee, so the real objective was more to just frighten the enemy and force them to clear out rather than slamming into them as such. And if you do manage to get them to flee you can pick them off rather easily I imagine.

Weren't they usually used for flanking hits and picking at enemy forces on said flanks? I didn't mean they ride full force directly into them and then just stay in the midst of it, sorry if that wasn't written correctly.

[Kathandira]

Cavalry charges are a great way to break your opponent's line or to turn their flank. Lancers tore some shit up well into the 19th century. Have a look at the Winged Hussars.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hussars.html

However, Spears are the Cavalry's worst enemy. Kill the horse, and you no longer have Cavalry to worry about.

Then there were the Japanese who were out of their damned minds. Using over sized swords which had to be carried into combat by their servants. These swords were used to cut the heads off of spears from a distance. Lunatics!

[Diak0n0s]

You can use a flail to hit behind a shield.

[Kathandira]

You can use a flail to hit behind a shield.

Better hope you connect though, otherwise you are left wide open and defenseless.

[May90]

Katana made from glorious Japanese steel folded over a thousand times and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth.

I'd say a small handgun is superior to a katana.

[Macaquerie]

Cavalry charges are a great way to break your opponent's line or to turn their flank. Lancers tore some shit up well into the 19th century. Have a look at the Winged Hussars.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hussars.html

I feel like even against that you could stand a pretty good chance of surviving if you didn't shit your pants upon seeing them and held formation, because infantry would still be able to pack more mass in the same area and you wouldn't just get tossed aside, not all of you at any rate. Still, I imagine that pants shitting was the usual outcome and they would just be able to ride you down one by one at their leisure.

[Deleted]

Then there were the Japanese who were out of their damned minds. Using over sized swords which had to be carried into combat by their servants. These swords were used to cut the heads off of spears from a distance. Lunatics!

Isn't that also a theory for what Zweihanders were for?

[Kathandira]

Katana made from glorious Japanese steel folded over a thousand times and is vastly superior to any other weapon on earth.

Baiter!! lol

I've researched into that way too much to be foolish to be brought into that conversation.

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Isn't that also a theory for what Zweihanders were for?

Pretty much. They were never meant to be wielded in actual combat like that. They were anti cavalry weapons.

[klogaroth]

Baiter!! lol

I've researched into that way too much to be foolish to be brought into that conversation.

But it's thousand fold bait, forged in the finest baiteries in all the world....
Just one taste, just try a bit.

[Unionoob]

Just my oppinion but flails were mainly used for small room combats. With long sword it would be pretty hard to make decent swing in middle age castle and with dagger and short sword you are pretty limited on range while with flail you can make pretty good hits in small room. Even if ceiling are low you still can swing it. And if I am not wrong flails were used in pits. With sword you pretty much will end person with one or two swings if not kill then just remove some of his limbs. While with flail you can last bit longer for better show.

[Kathandira]

I'd say a small handgun is superior to a katana.

During the time. Yes. However most firearms were single fire black powder weapons. Useless if wet, slow to reload, not very accurate, and delicate (meaning, things can easily just stop working).

If you have a full lined up squad firing weapons (much like the old school British military) they were effective. But not in a melee. You'd get 1 shot, then have to go right back to your blade.

[Deleted]

Pretty much. They were never meant to be wielded in actual combat like that. They were anti cavalry weapons.

I thought they were theorized to break through spear walls, by doing circular motion with the longest reach, and once through, you could grab the higher part of the sword and have a more handy and easily wielded sword.