Immigration isn't bad, illegal immigration is!

[Zoibert the Bear]

You do understand the business has a choice. Again, it seems that the narrative is that illegals somehow have his incredible power of walking into an establishment and that business is forced to hire them.

I don't doubt that the business has a choice; and a business will almost certainly take the cheapest choice as long as it doesn't hurt them otherwise. But that choice is made possible because of illegal inmigration.

I just don't see what's positive about this to society as a whole.

[Daelak]

Can you please explain to me how an illegal can pay state and local taxes, and into Federal SS and medicare (through their 'wages') when they do not have a social security number (you know, that thing that they use to track you and track your taxes and such)?

Pretty sure an illegal gets paid cash under the table...'cuz you know, it is illegal to have an illegal working for you, and if you paid them on the books you would be waving a flag saying 'Hey I have illegals working for me'...

They buy SS numbers.

[Deleted]

It's almost as if illegal immigration were illegal because it's bad.

[May90]

Every business will pay their employees as little as they can get away with and still fulfill their desired retention level. Throwing in foreign workers from countries where labour standards are different though just fucks with negotiating power on the employees end.

Regardless of how much illegal immigrants are paid, they still do the full amount of work on their job. If they work as hard as a citizen would, but get less, then averagely more is left to other citizens. An extreme example is UAE: immigrants from poor countries, legal or not, live there almost like slaves, having very little rights and extremely low quality of life; while many citizens don't even have to work to bathe in wealth. If such immigration wasn't present there, then, as you can imagine, citizens would have to do more work and would live worse in average.

It is not an argument in support of illegal immigration. I'm just saying that the question is more complicated than just "illegal immigration is bad".

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

A slight pet hate of mine is people complaining about immigration being terrible when in reality the issue is illegal immigration not immigration as a whole. Though I suspect people will claim multiculturalism is bad therefore immigration is bad but hey-ho

You are complaining about people conflating an issue.

Then you proceed to conflate said issue with an entirely different issue.

You just shut the fuck up once in a while.

[Gorgodeus]

Because none of the illegals pay tax. Great for the profit margins. Not so great for the state.

Whereas skilled foreign workers cost money to get into the country - around $10,000 for a H1-B iirc.

False. Illegal immigrants pay $20 billion per year in federal taxes and another $10 billion in state and local taxes.

- - - Updated - - -

They buy SS numbers.

No, they do not buy SS numbers. They file for an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number).

[taliey]

And so the backtracking begins.

[Macaquerie]

I don't doubt that the business has a choice; and a business will almost certainly take the cheapest choice as long as it doesn't hurt them otherwise. But that choice is made possible because of illegal inmigration.

I just don't see what's positive about this to society as a whole.

It's not just about wages though, most of the jobs that illegal immigrants do are tough, dirty, and above all BORING jobs that your average pampered American worker would never be willing to do no matter how much you paid him. And this isn't a new thing either, throughout the entire history of the US, the people who saw themselves as "real Americans" have always had someone else to do all the heavy lifting for them, whether that be slaves, immigrants, foreign sweatshop workers, or robots. Our definition of "hard work" is staying late at the office filing TPS reports, our entire culture is built around finding whatever means possible to avoid hardship and we're not going to just do a 360 and walk away because we're offered $15/hour.

[Deleted]

You are complaining about people conflating an issue.

Then you proceed to conflate said issue with an entirely different issue.

You just shut the fuck up once in a while.

Would you like more salt

[PC2]

Illegal immigration is bad, but mass unskilled legal immigration is bad as well. A good immigration process brings in people with higher than average skills.

[Kujako]

My ancestors didn't come to this country just to have their jobs taken by immigrants!

[PC2]

My ancestors didn't come to this country just to have their jobs taken by immigrants!

What was the population to job quantity ratio at the time? Without more information you can't know if the comparison is meaningful in a modern context.

[Daelak]

What was the population to job quantity ratio at the time? Without more information you can't know if the comparison is meaningful in a modern context.

Immigration, both illegal and legal, are huge boons to the US economy. They helps us reach better growth levels and higher tax revenue.

[PC2]

Immigration, both illegal and legal, are huge boons to the US economy. They helps us reach better growth levels and higher tax revenue.

Wrong, only skilled immigration is a boon for the US economy. That is what helps us reach better growth and higher tax revenues.

[DeadmanWalking]

Put a couple dozen Americans in prison for hiring Illegals (like Donald Trump) and nobody would hire Illegals and since there would be no jobs there wouldn't be any illegal immigrants coming here.

Illegal Immigrants don't take jobs from Americans, Americans give them jobs for bargain basement prices. From the guy who pulls up to a gas station asking for 3 guys to paint his barn to the Donald Trumps of the world who hire illegals to work their businesses in florida. Put a few of them in 'Bang you in the ass prison' and the problem will go away without needing a 36 billion dollar wall.

[Grapemask]

Can you please explain to me how an illegal can pay state and local taxes, and into Federal SS and medicare (through their 'wages') when they do not have a social security number (you know, that thing that they use to track you and track your taxes and such)?

They use fake social security numbers, or they use methods the government has provided for illegals to pay taxes. As someone else pointed out, illegals pay an amount of tax not too different than the same number of legal Americans do. Not to mention that they still are subject to non-income related taxes, just like everyone else, and yet they only get a fraction of the benefits that legal folks get because there are tons of services that are unobtainable by illegals. So you could say they're shouldering more of the burden than you are.

But there are plenty of people who get paid under the table, especially in states like Arizona. And for whatever reason, we've decided to mostly only punish the illegals and not the businesses that hire them, when the business is the one most in the wrong in that scenario.

[PC2]

Put a couple dozen Americans in prison for hiring Illegals (like Donald Trump) and nobody would hire Illegals and since there would be no jobs there wouldn't be any illegal immigrants coming here.

Illegal Immigrants don't take jobs from Americans, Americans give them jobs for bargain basement prices. From the guy who pulls up to a gas station asking for 3 guys to paint his barn to the Donald Trumps of the world who hire illegals to work their businesses in florida. Put a few of them in 'Bang you in the ass prison' and the problem will go away without needing a 36 billion dollar wall.

If there is proof Trump hired an illegal he definitely needs to go to jail.

[Machismo]

Illegal immigration isn't even bad. The problem is not immigration, the problem is the borders that governments maintain to solidify their power. They create imaginary lines, and restrict freedoms and trade based on them.

[PC2]

Illegal immigration isn't even bad. The problem is not immigration, the problem is the borders that governments maintain to solidify their power. They create imaginary lines, and restrict freedoms and trade based on them.

Should all nations be abolished? Do you think humanity would do better with no governments?

[DeadmanWalking]

If there is proof Trump hired an illegal he definitely needs to go to jail.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-1-million-hi/

Thing is we don't put people in prison for hiring illegals, we give them fines. If the fine is $50,000 but you saved $230,000 then it only makes good business sense to continue to break the law.