MH17 crash: Victims' families sue Putin and Russia

[Skroe]

Let's almost crash into an U.S. Navy ship. Let's shoot a plane from the sky. Let our jets get shot from the sky, because Russia knows when to take and when to give.



Lady Gaga Ocean, I f-cking can't.

THis is out of date.

Since last fall, Turkey is officially "The Land of Murdering Bastards" according to Russians.

You shoot down one Su-24 and suddenly you're the worst thing ever to exist.

[Deleted]

They have no evidence of Russia doing that, and if they claim they do, its just anti-russia propaganda.

Basically what you're saying is even if there was strong evidence you would immediately dismiss it as propaganda?

[Crispin]

Basically what you're saying is even if there was strong evidence you would immediately dismiss it as propaganda?

Ofcourse he would, seriously the pro-russian crowd only recognises something that Putin says.

Heck they even think Ebola was western made, lol.

[Slant]

Hehehehehehehe... You've not had the pleasure of discussing the Ukraine issues with the Russian crowd yet, haven't you?

It's cute how innocent they are, isn't it? Next he'll try to argue with logic and realise they do not think the same way he does at all. Pure, unadulterated denial can be an artform in itself. :P

[Deleted]

Hehehehehehehe... You've not had the pleasure of discussing the Ukraine issues with the Russian crowd yet, haven't you?

I tend to avoid Russians

[Skroe]

They have no evidence of Russia doing that, and if they claim they do, its just anti-russia propaganda.

No offence, but victims' family is not being very smart. They are being stupid. They need to fucking move on. They have no evidence, only fabricated by U.S, and I guess only stupid people believes them. Apparently those families are one of them I guess. If they want to blame someone, blame themselves.

I guess the world is overrun by stupid, or freedom makes people stupid, shrugs. Maybe a world war would be a good thing.

The joke of it is, this is terribly self inflicted by Russia.

In the week before MH17 was shot down, Russia was shooting at (and a manged to shoot down) Ukrainian cargo aircraft. The idea was to make Eastern Ukraine too dangerous for Ukrainian military aviation to operate in, to make Ukrainian ground forces vulnerable to Russia's artillery and give the astroturfed rebellion more of an even setting.

Mh17 was one gigantic goof up. Instead of shooting down the the third Ukrainian Cargo Aircraft in 10 days, they shot down a civilian jetliner that would look quite similar on radar.

Who did this? Russians. Because their troops are not well trained. Because they were thrown into a war with a murky-at-best political situation. I don't think Russian intended to shoot down MH17. I think a solitary anti-aircraft crew, staffed by Russians, made a terrible mistake.

If Russia had come clean about that immediately, there would have been some Nasty words, some official protest, and a firm hand slap. But not the sanctions. Not NATO armoring up. Russia brought that on itself.

Military accidents happen. Destroying Russia's reputation? Russia alone did that.

[Crispin]

Hehehehehehehe... You've not had the pleasure of discussing the Ukraine issues with the Russian crowd yet, haven't you?

Honestly, nonsense like this

I guess the world is overrun by stupid, or freedom makes people stupid, shrugs. Maybe a world war would be a good thing.

So we can conclude that the people of North Korea are smart since they have 0 freedom, and a world war would be good so we can enslave people and make them clever again?

The notion that 1 country is telling the truth, and the other 30 countries are lying their socks off, seems highly unlikely, then when you point out that people like Snowden had his material published in newspapers in the US and Europe, they suddenly shut up, but when the panama papers are published they cry "western propaganda lies you're just after Putin!" and ignore how Cameron is involved, how the Icelandic PM had to resign etc. but that does not fit their "propaganda" narrative.

[Skroe]

I tend to avoid Russians

The MMO Champ OT Putinista Brigade is something special, let me tell you....

I don't think Ulmitia has threatened the West with Nuclear Annihilation in the last 96 hours. Maybe he died?

[Kokolums]

The joke of it is, this is terribly self inflicted by Russia.

In the week before MH17 was shot down, Russia was shooting at (and a manged to shoot down) Ukrainian cargo aircraft. The idea was to make Eastern Ukraine too dangerous for Ukrainian military aviation to operate in, to make Ukrainian ground forces vulnerable to Russia's artillery and give the astroturfed rebellion more of an even setting.

Mh17 was one gigantic goof up. Instead of shooting down the the third Ukrainian Cargo Aircraft in 10 days, they shot down a civilian jetliner that would look quite similar on radar.

Who did this? Russians. Because their troops are not well trained. Because they were thrown into a war with a murky-at-best political situation. I don't think Russian intended to shoot down MH17. I think a solitary anti-aircraft crew, staffed by Russians, made a terrible mistake.

If Russia had come clean about that immediately, there would have been some Nasty words, some official protest, and a firm hand slap. But not the sanctions. Not NATO armoring up. Russia brought that on itself.

Military accidents happen. Destroying Russia's reputation? Russia alone did that.

This is a scary attitude to take when both sides have nuclear weapons. One side used poor diplomacy so let's push ourselves towards war!

[Skroe]

The notion that 1 country is telling the truth, and the other 30 countries are lying their socks off, seems highly unlikely, then when you point out that people like Snowden had his material published in newspapers in the US and Europe, they suddenly shut up, but when the panama papers are published they cry "western propaganda lies you're just after Putin!" and ignore how Cameron is involved, how the Icelandic PM had to resign etc. but that does not fit their "propaganda" narrative.

Part of me thinks that one of the reasons Anonymous and Wikileaks and the like take their sweet time going after Russia and China (translation: they basically don't) is because neither of them's hacktivists want the sensory organs of their grandmothers to mysteriously show up in their mail box one morning. They know, generally speaking, Western Intelligence services won't start arranging unfortunate... boating accidents for their loved ones.

Going after the US and EU at this point is essentially beginner mode.

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This is a scary attitude to take when both sides have nuclear weapons. One side used poor diplomacy so let's push ourselves towards war!

It's very far from clear that any conflict with Russia will automatically go nuclear. It's never been clear. Not even during the height of the Cold War.

[Cybran]

The Dutch already pissed on Ukraine's prospects of joining the EU and getting visa free travel. They should add salt to the open wound and ask Kiev to pay for the MH17 crash.

[Deleted]

It's very far from clear that any conflict with Russia will automatically go nuclear. It's never been clear. Not even during the height of the Cold War.

I'd use them if I got attacked, anyone would. France would do it too, if Germany attacked again.

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The Dutch already pissed on Ukraine's prospects of joining the EU and getting visa free travel. They should add salt to the open wound and ask Kiev to pay for the MH17 crash.

The Ukraine has no place in the EU, much less even than Turkey. We don't need even more eastern shitholes dragging our economy down.

[Deleted]

The Dutch already pissed on Ukraine's prospects of joining the EU and getting visa free travel. They should add salt to the open wound and ask Kiev to pay for the MH17 crash.

Nobody wants Ukraine

[Crispin]

The Dutch already pissed on Ukraine's prospects of joining the EU and getting visa free travel. They should add salt to the open wound and ask Kiev to pay for the MH17 crash.

The Dutch didnt, something like 12.5% did.

[Skroe]

I'd use them if I got attacked, anyone would. France would do it too, if Germany attacked again.

Yeah well, the US isn't a bunch of maniacs. It would probably point it's own nuclear weapons at Russia and tell them "we're not going to do that", and then spend a few weeks conventionally evicting the Russians from wherever they are, alternating between killing lots of Russians and offering Tsar Putin some kind of ridiculous face-saving off ramp (important for Russians, not for us really). Russian forces in Estonia would go through a richly deserved meat grinder but so long as B-2 bombers don't fly over Moscow, we'll be good.

I don't think Vladmir Putin will start World War III over the US launching cruise missiles from the North Sea at the military garrison in Kalingrad and Russian forces in Estonia. He'd keep it inside the field and we'd offer him off ramp after off ramp because the status quo ante would be our goal.

And before you start linking a bunch of articles, keep in mind whenever a US general says "we can't do ______" he means "I want more money". The great recession has trained a generation of American public sector officials that pleading poverty is the best way to relief from funding constraints.

[Cybran]

Yeah well, the US isn't a bunch of maniacs. It would probably point it's own nuclear weapons at Russia and tell them "we're not going to do that", and then spend a few weeks conventionally evicting the Russians from wherever they are, alternating between killing lots of Russians and offering Tsar Putin some kind of ridiculous face-saving off ramp (important for Russians, not for us really). Russian forces in Estonia would go through a richly deserved meat grinder but so long as B-2 bombers don't fly over Moscow, we'll be good.

It must be fascinating to live in your fantasy world.

[Slant]

I'm convinced gen-OT reached critical levels of stupid years ago and reality collapsed on itself creating a nexus where our universe collides with bizarro Russia, hence the bending of laws of logic.

I honestly couldn't argue against that, based on the evidence we see on a daily basis here...

[Skroe]

It must be fascinating to live in your fantasy world.

Yeah a military of 700,000 where two thirds are one-year conscripts are really going to fair well as soon as NATO musters a response.

As I said. Meat grinder.

[Cybran]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/13/...an-ii-missile/

The simple fact is, unpopular though it may be, there is a relationship in the ongoing Washington-Moscow arms race between offense and defense — between the sort of missiles being developed by both sides and the defenses being deployed to counter them. If we care about reducing the danger of nuclear war, we have to find a way to limit the most destabilizing nuclear weapons. And that means being able to talk honestly about all our strategic systems, including missile defense. If the RS-28 is just a giant phallus to Vladimir Putin, it’s the rest of us who are going to get screwed.

The USA is afraid of the nuclear option. Your government would squirm and twist, but stay out of the Baltics.

[Deleted]

Can't help but notice that Russia looks like a GIANT fish, biting into a person's arse (Spain is the head, squint if you don't see it).