Is it a bit insane to try to debate topics on internet forums?

[starlord]

I still question if debate even works at all. I think the only thing debate achieves is that it determines who is the best at selling a point of view. A great salesman can sell ice to eskimos. A great salesman can take any side in a debate and convince a majority to agree with it. I think its better to use trial-and-error. Even if an idea (within reason) sounds dumb, it must be tried before dismissing it totally because you must account for the fact that the advocate for the opinion might just be a terrible salesman.

well the whole point is to thoroughly present both sides of an argument & allow the audience to draw their own conclusions. if somebody can demonstrate how they arrived at a certain conclusion to be sound then its not salesmanship, which relies more on emotion.
emotion driven arguments are a little more fun though...

[Deleted]

Productive, no

Fun, yes

Insane? Matter of perspective

[Underverse]

It's useful for developing your own arguments and ideas. If you're willing to change, you can probably get something out of it. If you're just trying to change someone else's opinion, you probably won't.

[Kokolums]

well the whole point is to thoroughly present both sides of an argument & allow the audience to draw their own conclusions. if somebody can demonstrate how they arrived at a certain conclusion to be sound then its not salesmanship, which relies more on emotion.
emotion driven arguments are a little more fun though...

I don't think I've ever seen a debate where both sides have been thoroughly presented. And even if so, that only falls under the "fallacy of the false dilemma" problem because you are assuming there are only two options, which there may not be. If I get anything out of a debate its usually to just get a tally of all available opinions to do my own research on later.

[starlord]

I don't think I've ever seen a debate where both sides have been thoroughly presented. And even if so, that only falls under the "fallacy of the false dilemma" problem because you are assuming there are only two options, which there may not be. If I get anything out of a debate its usually to just get a tally of all available opinions to do my own research on later.

yes, there can be more than 2 sides to a debate... and there you go, you got to see other sides of the issue. thus it served its purpose.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Internet forums are not a proper medium if you truly wish to debate, basically, anything.

[Mad_Murdock]

I agree and disagree. I participate in various forums, because I like to have my way of thinking challenged. Sometimes I fail to consider everything, sometimes I don't even know there other things that need to be considered. I actually feel pretty good about learning areas I hadn't considered.

At the same time, I find the various age groups are pretty difficult to have much productive conversation with. Young people seem are just absolutely convinced their answer is the absolute best answer and anyone who disagrees has a learning disability. Older people tend to be stuck in their ways, and what might have been true 20 years ago, isn't true so much anymore, but they don't want to accept change.

Plus there seems to be this thing about internet forums, where it hard to get anyone to even agree that the other person might have a valid point and anytime someone looks to be wrong, they can't admit it, instead they just double down on their stance.

[Kokolums]

yes, there can be more than 2 sides to a debate... and there you go, you got to see other sides of the issue. thus it served its purpose.

I didn't say it was insane to watch others debate. I said to actually do it seems insane on forums.

[Crispin]

Productive, no

Fun, yes

Insane? Matter of perspective

This, but some people seem to take it extremely serious.

[Ealyssa]

1. If you strongly support a view and try to shout down opposing views, people attack you for silencing debate.

That's not how debate work. You don't debate for your side to win. You debate for the best solution to rise and be accepted.

[Deleted]

This, but some people seem to take it extremely serious.

taking trivial things seriously is part of the fun something something oscar wilde

[ArguesWithStrangers]

It depends on what your goals are. If you are hoping for some resounding victory where your opponents concede the point and the spectators unanimously declare you the victor, you are going to be sorely disappointed. Chances are the vocal people in any thread are very assured of their point of view. They are not likely to change it. There are some people quietly reading that might be swayed by your argument. You should not forget them.

You should also always make a practice of challenging your arguments against intelligent people who disagree with you. I've had a couple of points I thought were iron-clad effectively challenged on this forum. It did not cause me to change my position, but it forced me to come up with a more convincing argument. That is a good thing.

[Kokolums]

It depends on what your goals are. If you are hoping for some resounding victory where your opponents concede the point and the spectators unanimously declare you the victor, you are going to be sorely disappointed. Chances are the vocal people in any thread are very assured of their point of view. They are not likely to change it. There are some people quietly reading that might be swayed by your argument. You should not forget them.

You should also always make a practice of challenging your arguments against intelligent people who disagree with you. I've had a couple of points I thought were iron-clad effectively challenged on this forum. It did not cause me to change my position, but it forced me to come up with a more convincing argument. That is a good thing.

I think that's the wrong approach. If you want to find solutions, you need to be willing to try things you firmly think are wrong (within reason) because you must account for the fact that you could be wrong, no matter how convinced you are of your own argument. Trial-and-error is superior to debate.

[lockedout]

Who are those?

The ones who agree with his point of view.

[Waynhim]

On these forums the best topics for awesome debates are

>Pedophilia vs. Child molestation
>Police hate black people
>Systematic racism and sexism is why people of colour and women are oppressed
>Video games/movies/anime make people violent/sexist/homophobic
>Why do some people enjoy X/Y/Z, even though I have been taught all my life that X/Y/Z is bad

You forgot about the "immigration problems in EU"-threads in which US peeps reply that we should learn from them since they have no issues with minorities at all.

[Ciddy]

It is for amusement. People never change their stance on a Internet forum they just come to hurl shit at each other.

Pretty much this. Some random assclown who lives thousands of miles away from me and will never see me in real life isn't going to make me change my mind when it comes to politics, for example. I don't usually bother with the whole "arguing on the Internet" thing.

[Auxora]

Those things apply in RL debates/discussions too, but people still have them. 90% of the time whether it's RL or the Internet, people's opinion from the start of a debate/discussion from the start to the end are not going to change no matter how logical or fact-filled the support of your position is. That's just human behavior, we're stubborn. And that's just more true on the Internet, since in RL at least you usually have a background and some trust with the person you are discussing a topic with to give your opinion more validity.

All that said, it's still ok to debate topics anyway for a couple of reasons. For 1 to dispel the spread of disinformation and in some cases hate/prejudice, which on the Internet is incredibly widespread. And for 2 just to exercise your right to free-speech. And lastly in some rare cases you might be able to open someone's eyes.

[Deleted]

From my experience I see this:

1. If you strongly support a view and try to shout down opposing views, people attack you for silencing debate.
2. If you say there is some wiggle room in your view, you get attacked by both sides. People who strongly support your view without wiggle room view you as a traitor, and people against your view just lump you in with the people who strongly support it.
3. If you open with a disclaimer that everything is just your opinion and its ok to disagree, then opponents of the view will tell you that your opinion is worthless and to just shut up because not even you believe in it.

And every topic of debate seems to turn personal. No matter what side you take, eventually people against you will try to assassinate your character instead of arguing the topic. The longer you stick around an try to debate things, the faster it descends into childish name-calling.

I open up any debate thread and it seems filled with name-calling and open ridicule between posters.

So I just wonder, isn't it insanity to even participate?

I suggest you get used to it. This is going to become the norm in the course of our daily lives.

Are you going to remain silent in the face of relentless personal attacks? Many people engage in personal attacks because they are effective.

Get used to it.

[Independent voter]

Is it a bit insane to try to debate topics on internet forums?

It keeps me away from a life of crime.

[Thresh1]

Debates are great ways to learn new ideas; I've been made aware of much pertinent information and arguments during debates. In debates, people have their ideas challenged, which is a good thing. Debates are entertaining, thus someone is much more likely to read people debating than to go read a few tech manuals or textbooks on the subject, which not everyone has the time or inclination to do.

Plus, everyone who is on this thread, agreeing with the OP, and defending it, is engaging in debate :P