Difficulty level in today's games

[Deleted]

There are hard games.

Play Doom on ultra-nightmare. GL HF. Nightmare itself is pretty damn hard, what with almost anything 2 shotting you.

But perma-death on top of that, to restart the whole campaign...

Yeah.

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Anyone else getting tired of how much of today's content is spoon fed to gamers now a days? Is this what gamers want? I am having some problems getting into many of today's games, specifically the AAA titles. I will just leave this to consider because I think it sums it up nicely:

http://imgur.com/qUVG8Sc?r

I have plenty of hard games. Why do you give a f'ck what other people enjoy?

You remind me of thoose people who moan that WoW is too easy, yet you have never set foot in Mythic.

[VXFadhel]

......
You remind me of thoose people who moan that WoW is too easy, yet you have never set foot in Mythic.

While it is understandable what you are trying to say, no need to jump to "Oh you didn't play it fully or you didn't watch it fully, so you don't know what you are talking about". Also don't forget that not everyone enjoys playing with others or have patience to do so.

[Deleted]

While it is understandable what you are trying to say, no need to jump to "Oh you didn't play it fully or you didn't watch it fully, so you don't know what you are talking about". Also don't forget that not everyone enjoys playing with others or have patience to do so.

I was merely pointing out the fallacy of his point, just like the people who complain about the lack of difficulty in things.

If, there objectively is, content that is very hard, how can one complain about stuff being too easy?

It has nothing to do with your personal tastes or what content you consume, it's just a straight up false claim.

[VXFadhel]

I was merely pointing out the fallacy of his point, just like the people who complain about the lack of difficulty in things.

If, there objectively is, content that is very hard, how can one complain about stuff being too easy?

It has nothing to do with your personal tastes or what content you consume, it's just a straight up false claim.

Yeah, as I said, it is understandable what you are trying to say but it is something people use to simply drop/disputes arguments just cause. Also, picking up something that requires others to perform up to the task isn't something that you can do about it. And yeah there are other hard games with much depth to them (even if he refuses to accept that).

[Deleted]

Yeah, as I said, it is understandable what you are trying to say but it is something people use to simply drop/disputes arguments just cause. Also, picking up something that requires others to perform up to the task isn't something that you can do about it. And yeah there are other hard games with much depth to them (even if he refuses to accept that).

Well, yeah, i recognize that some people would just throw out such arguments, just because. :P

Also, yeah, it requires a certain metric of having other people who are on your own level, to be in a competetive/hard environment that actually entails other people as well. Which can be hard to arrange, at times.

And that only expands the front of which difficulty you can aquire, really ; There is the difficulty of organization, of sheer execution, of timings or of the Unforgiving kind. ^^

[zealo]

The "Dark Souls isnt difficult at all" comments are likely made from those who summon two phantoms on every boss. Which I suspect is most of you making that claim.
I agree that the difficulty is over-done but name one game that has as much depth. The best series I have ever played.

Dark souls isn't hard in the mechanical sense to any seasoned gamer, it just punishes the player trying to bum rush right through the game, while not giving a fuck about mechanics, like a lot of games allows for when on easy difficulty mode.

It isn't much harder than most games hardest difficulty setting if you do pay attention to what the game is trying to make you do. Most people whoever doesn't even touch those settings in most games, and Dark Souls gives players no choice at all, thus earning this "reputation" of being difficult.

[FobManX]

I'm not really sure to be honest, as I play completely different types of games now then I did when I was a kid. As a kid it was mostly platform action/adventure type games(i.e. Mario). Nowadays I mostly just play RPGs and Strategy games, which generally don't require the same type of hand eye coordination/dexterity but are more thought/tactical based.

[McLovenIt]

Most games that I have played, like Madden, Diablo, Warcraft III, WoW, League of Legends, Civlization and stuff like that. Yea they can be very tough, but you can also typically stick to lower level's, and in the case of WoW, you can stick to PVE so random a*holes don't run around murdering you at level 20 lol

but tons of games have settings that you can change difficulty with. So I don't really see the majority of titles "spoon feeding" gamers.

Now if you want to coast through games on Easy, than go for it. To me that's incredibly dull and takes zero skill, so what the hell is the point? But that's MY opinion.

I like playing Civilization, and for the longest time I used to play on Easy so I could dominate the world with ease, but after awhile it was just a waste of time because it required no skill on my part. So finally bumped it up a few levels, got into some great War's, went up some more, started losing a few games here and there. But I still enjoy myself, and now I'm getting into long, difficult wars and when I demolish another Civ Leaders country, I'm glad that I pushed through n took that SoB out.

just all depends on what type of games you like and if you're actually a "TryHard" gamer, or just a "let's play for fun" gamer.

I'm a TryHard/LetsPlay2WinBecauseItsFun

[Arenis]

Somewhat related, bit older video of TotalBiscuit on many of today's Shooters. Mainly discussing the lack of depth, the spoon fed scenes and the monorail gameplay.


While I think a game doesn't have to be infuriatingly hard at every single moment, we should remember it is still a >game<. It's a sort of puzzle, it should require thinking, planning and practice (to various degrees). It should keep the brain occupied with thinking. And I think some games(or certain aspects of games) tend to forget that.

[Grogo]

If you have the time, watch this video on what made the Dar Souls series so stellar and how it pulls away from most other games:

Dark Souls: Why it's Different

[VXFadhel]

Dark Souls is a good game (not arguing with that nor others are) thou we are discussing difficulty here and its depth. Also, while the story and atmosphere is great in dark souls as well as picking enemies in areas and so on. It isn't the only approach to the games being engaging.

As an example lets the game "the way of the samurai 4", in some "side-quest" you go to find a blacksmith and convince him to return by his master side. Now if you skipped that, you might find him in main quest, thou you will have to kill him. There are many endings, and one of them is called "Boiled Samurai", which basically you end up that way. In dark Souls 3, even thou I missed some of the quests of some NPCs, I didn't care enough nor thought about it. It is something to be done after all.

Think of it as Sephiroth in FF7, sure you can look up more into his background story and so on. But in the end of the day, you will still hold his hand or something. There are many forms to tell a story, some depends on your actions while others does not. Just because there is "depth" doesn't mean it is, think of ME3 endings. Sure on some level you have to think what you want to do but surely you know what kind of backlash it got or why. In Nier, one of the endings basically you end up sacrificing yourself, which also deletes your save.

Edit: In Shinobi (PS2), basically you get a Soul Devouring/Stealing Sword, which will consumes your life (Slowly and faster as you go up in difficulty) if you don't feed it (Kill enemies). It also gets stronger as it feeds.

[May90]

I think games, in average, are nowadays harder than, say, back in 90-s. Those games felt hard at the time, because computer gaming was relatively young and people were inexperienced. Personal impression:

- Doom 1 (1993) on Ultra-Violence is much easier than Doom (2016) on Ultra-Violence. (Although, to be fair, Doom 2 (1995) on Nightmare is one of the hardest games I've ever played; might just be the hardest one.)
- Warcraft 2 (1995) is much easier than Warcraft 3 (2002) on any difficulty.
- Starcraft (1998) is easier than Starcraft 2 (2010) on Hard/Brutal.
- Baldur's Gate 1/2 (1998/2000) on the hardest difficulty is much easier than any of the Dragon Age games (2009/2011/2014) on Nightmare.

Of course, if you play the most mainstream games - then yes, those are steamroll. But you don't have to play them.

[kail]

What games back in the day were "hard"? LoZ? Mario games? Sonic or Doom? What generation was defined as the epitome for difficult, non-spoon-feeding games?

There are games today that feel nigh impossible to beat on the most difficult setting. Main difference between today and back then is the options available. A game like Bravely Default allows you to set difficulty and even mob encounter rate. Other games provide a HC option. If there's one thing I love about today's games, it's the options.

[Echocho]

Well kids are fragile. We need to protect them from failure and hurt

[Baracuda]

Dark Souls has no "Game Over" screen. At no point in the game are you forced into the position where you go "Darn, I cannot progress any further, and have to start over"

The XCOM franchise is by this merit a much harder, though still enjoyable, game. Games where you cannot lose, are not hard games, and not challenging. The biggest problem with the majority of modern games is that developers are afraid that if a player see's a GAME OVER screen, they will quit playing. Also, many players will avoid games where it is possible that many hours of playing could ultimately be "wasted" if you die or get so stuck you cannot progress further.

When Dark Souls has an enforced Ironman Mode, then you can call it a hard game.

I think you're confusing hard with tedious.

[Deleted]

I think you're confusing hard with tedious.

Yes, I think you are correct. When you can just repeatedly throw yourself at something until eventual victory, then it would be tedious. Without an actual punishment for being bad then the game is not hard, just tedious.

[Lotus Victoria]

I love a good challenge. Final Fantasy Tactics is fucking hard (as long as you don't keep Orlandu in your party ) and it will use your intelligence like a chess game, where every move you make can result in the death of a fellow comrade.

Long live the Beoulves!

[Deleted]

The "Dark Souls isnt difficult at all" comments are likely made from those who summon two phantoms on every boss. Which I suspect is most of you making that claim.
I agree that the difficulty is over-done but name one game that has as much depth. The best series I have ever played.

The games are great, i do agree, and some boss fights are challenging, but to be honest, old infinity engine games had the potential to be even harder, and i say the potential because of simply one thing, in those games you were able to save at will, even mid boss combat.
If you could save at will in any dark souls game they would be as unchallenging as those other games i mentioned.
I still have to find a boss fight potentially harder than the demogorgon one (i think that is what it was called) that came with the expansion of baldur´s gate 2.
But yes baldur´s gate 2 and his expansion, has to be the best RPG i have ever played.

[Deleted]

Difficulty is the wrong word. Soccer is easy, but some players earn millions while others get benched by their PE-classes.

[May90]

The games are great, i do agree, and some boss fights are challenging, but to be honest, old infinity engine games had the potential to be even harder, and i say the potential because of simply one thing, in those games you were able to save at will, even mid boss combat.
If you could save at will in any dark souls game they would be as unchallenging as those other games i mentioned.
I still have to find a boss fight potentially harder than the demogorgon one (i think that is what it was called) that came with the expansion of baldur´s gate 2.
But yes baldur´s gate 2 and his expansion, has to be the best RPG i have ever played.

I don't know, Baldur's Gate 2 seemed very easy to me. Granted, I haven't beaten Kangaxx and a couple other optional bosses I was too lazy to find tactics for - but the main game wasn't much of a challenge at all, especially due to all kinds of tricks such as "Summon a lot of stuff, send them at the enemies, rest, summon a lot of stuff again...".

In comparison, say, Dragon Age: Origins on Nightmare - now that is something. First time I fought the final boss in the Circle of Magi, I had to get up at some point and go eat to calm down, because I was frustrated at how hard it was. And Harvester, the boss in the last DLC... I think it is the hardest fight in an RPG I've ever had.