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  1. #1

    Space Colonization Thread

    I'm very interested in understanding how we should colonize the galaxy. So here are a few questions that I'll put out there so we can think about them thoroughly, because I've yet to see a lot of discussion on these.

    Do we let individuals countries colonize different areas of a planet?

    What plants (to both produce oxygen and provide food) and animals do we bring to Mars/Venus?

    How much sovereignty should Venusians, Lunars, Martians or Titans (the moon Titan) have?

    Want to get this discussion going...

  2. #2
    Forget Venus. Surface temperature is entirely too high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Forget Venus. Surface temperature is entirely too high.
    NASA has the idea of floating domed cities in Venus' atmosphere.

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    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Forget Venus. Surface temperature is entirely too high.
    The atmosphere isn't.

    Anyways, knew it was going to be Atethecat's daydreaming "discussion" thread before opening it.
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    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    We would need to bring tools with us, to create enclosures out of the local materials. Stone makes for an amazingly sound structure, and can provide insulation from both heat and warmth. From within these enclosures, we would need to create an artificial habitat for our plant life.

    Beyond tools, we would need materials to seal these enclosures to protect us from the dangers of the lack of atmosphere on a place like Mars. And also we would need some way to generate power enough to have temperature control and humidity control.

    All in all, it would be artificial green houses in tightly sealed enclosures.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Forget Venus. Surface temperature is entirely too high.
    That and the whole sulfuric acid rain and metal snow.

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    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    I think the way this works is whoever gets there first and is able to defend it gets the land in question.
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    Whoever gets their first will form their own nation with their own laws.

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    Well first have organisations like NASA be in charge of the colonies and then grant them autonomy once civilians have settled properly.

    To be honest our solar system isn't great for colonisation, better to use other planets as a sort of 'jump pad' (build space stations on distant planets and leap frog from one to another) to get deeper and deeper into space until we find a planet worthy of colonisation.

  10. #10
    Peas for Terraforming Mars highly nutritional. Easy to grow already shown to grow in Martian soil.

    I guess whoever is there would have sovereignty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I think the way this works is whoever gets there first and is able to defend it gets the land in question.
    So China, Russia and Murica?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    NASA has the idea of floating domed cities in Venus' atmosphere.
    Which could then extract the CO2 from Venus' atmosphere over time to cool it.

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    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livevil View Post
    So China, Russia and Murica?
    Probably at first, and maybe the ESA. But I imagine once infrastructure on Mars is good enough, a lot of the colonies on Mars will opt for self-determination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Probably at first, and maybe the ESA. But I imagine once infrastructure on Mars is good enough, a lot of the colonies on Mars will opt for self-determination.
    ESA and NASA will do ages before China and Russia do.

    Russia could never afford to do it. China isn't remotely close to having the technology.

    Really the Space Hype Machine was one of the more obnoxious parts of the mid 2000s Chinese Hype Monstrosity. Accomplishing so little, and yet given such a break for the challenges they faced ahead. And here we are, midway through 2016. A decade ago their Lunar landing was about a year and a half away.

    Space is hard. People forget that.

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    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    ESA and NASA will do ages before China and Russia do.

    Russia could never afford to do it. China isn't remotely close to having the technology.

    Really the Space Hype Machine was one of the more obnoxious parts of the mid 2000s Chinese Hype Monstrosity. Accomplishing so little, and yet given such a break for the challenges they faced ahead. And here we are, midway through 2016. A decade ago their Lunar landing was about a year and a half away.

    Space is hard. People forget that.
    Russia is closer to having the tech, and if China wants to pay for Russia's tech, there could always be a JV.
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  16. #16
    I am for this, yes. Let's get after it.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Russia is closer to having the tech, and if China wants to pay for Russia's tech, there could always be a JV.
    Russia is closer. But to do it they'd have to get rid of Soyuz2 and Proton.

    I think they'll never do it. Russians don't get rid of things.

    Also let's remember something else: in the last 30 years, only the US and ESA have landed on a body with an atmosphere. The US has with Mars about 8 times. The ESA did on Titan. China landed a glorified remote control car on the Moon, the moon being beginner mode for landing (low gravity, no atmosphere, nearby, inexpensive). If memory serves the last time Russia landed on anything was Venus, briefly in the 1970s, and some Mars landings back then?

  18. #18
    I don't think you should look at space colonization in terms of how the world is now. If there is going to be any serious colonization ( not just a research station for a few scientists ) it probably won't be done by individual countries.

    Before we have the technology to effectively move across the emptiness of space (FTL, warp, whatever), establish long-term habitation in inhospitable places (Mars, Europa), hellholes like Venus or Titan or even terraform, we'll probably unify the planet in some way. Whether it's country blocs (think advanced EU) or some world government.

    At that point governments and/or colonizing organisations will probably deal with each other / give mandates about where to go, what to build and who does it. Corporations will probably also get the green light to extract minerals (or things like water in the case of terraforming) from rocky planets and asteroids.

    If you're just building some outpost on a distant moon you'll probably want some sore of oxygen recycler/generator. It depends on the location really (Europa has oxygen, dunno if it's breathable or usable in any way though). If your going for large scale habitation or terraforming the introduction of flora and fauna is probably a must.

    Sovereignty will probably be determined by the kind of colonisation, distance and head count. Some research outpost on mars will be controlled by their benefactors on earth, as will any kind of colonisation at it's start anyways. But some space city on Europa with a couple of million people will probably demand some sort of autonomy.
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    Fluffy Kitten Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atethecat View Post
    Do we let individuals countries colonize different areas of a planet?
    Nations are an archaic entity that will likely dissolve in the next century or so.

    Whoever lands on a body will stake some claim to what they can comfortably use - and to prevent a competition of resources others will be encouraged to land at other locations.

    It won't be a scenario where the US puts a dude on Mars, and then claims all of Mars as property of the US.

    It might be easiest if we hand ownership of Space to the UN, and then develop a common law of space exploitation. That would let us skip the entire sovereignty debate.

    What plants (to both produce oxygen and provide food) and animals do we bring to Mars/Venus?
    Mars might actually be quite easy to grow on - about a dozen crops have been grown in Mars-equivalent soil given sufficient water and care - and the yields are actually comparable to Earth soil. It will have to be greenhoused though obviously - as will everything on Venus.

    I'm not sure any animal would be practical until we can terraform.

    How much sovereignty should Venusians, Lunars, Martians or Titans (the moon Titan) have?
    Discussed above. They would likely have total sovereignty over themselves.
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    Herald of the Titans Berengil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annoying View Post
    That and the whole sulfuric acid rain and metal snow.
    Yeh f Venus. maybe put some permanent stations in orbit for research and observation. The planet would require centuries of terraforming to make it habitable. It is literally the closest place to hell in the system.

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