Is Europe lurching to the far right?

[Ehrenpanzer]

Highly debatable. The election of Corbyn to the Labour party indicates a dramatic shift to the left, and the far right UKIP won a majority in the euro elections.

Unless there is some actual improvement in the economy I could only see a continuing radical divergence.

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My mother was kept in a swedish prison briefly during the war when her family fled occupied poland. She speaks about it as if it was the happiest time of her life.

I can see how being in a Swedish prison compared to a Nazi enforced ghetto waiting for transportation to a death camp would be a very positive experience....

[Deleted]

It is real but it doesn't have staying power. The idiots who think immigrants ruin countries have their moment to shine now. Simple demographic reasons, such as the fact that Europeans do not produce enough children to keep the societies running, will force the neo-nazis out as people realize that hey, our countries need more people and that skin color really isn't something anyone should pay attention to.

[Deleted]

You can't get much more far right in modern times than the good old USA. Even your 'left wing' candidate is right wing

Now do a left wing one

[schwarzkopf]

Now do a left wing one

Can't for the US Even Bernie is middle (centrist)

[Macaquerie]

The annoying thing about modern day extremists on both sides of the political spectrum is that their beliefs seem pretty blatantly chosen for strategic reasons rather than being based on any actual conviction. Immigration for example seems like a pretty easy issue to actually solve - set a firm quota based on an objective analysis of how many workers are needed, pick the best out of the whole pool of applicants, and strictly enforce the law to prevent anyone who didn't pass muster from getting in. There's absolutely no reason why anyone would support either letting everyone in or kicking everyone out unless they were trying to take the most extreme position possible to get more leverage in the eventual compromise. Let's not pretend there's anything more to it.

[Deleted]

The annoying thing about modern day extremists on both sides of the political spectrum is that their beliefs seem pretty blatantly chosen for strategic reasons rather than being based on any actual conviction. Immigration for example seems like a pretty easy issue to actually solve - set a firm quota based on an objective analysis of how many workers are needed, pick the best out of the whole pool of applicants, and strictly enforce the law to prevent anyone who didn't pass muster from getting in. There's absolutely no reason why anyone would support either letting everyone in or kicking everyone out unless they were trying to take the most extreme position possible to get more leverage in the eventual compromise. Let's not pretend there's anything more to it.

I know right? it would be crazy to let more people in than you need.

[Alydael]

Nah, Europe is determined to liberal itself right into the abyss. I feel bad for their "intelligent" citizens, as the libs are determined to destroy and transform EU. I hate to say it, but it is providing the perfect example for the US to avoid the left/liberal agenda. Thank you for taking the hit Europe!

[Macaquerie]

I know right? it would be crazy to let more people in than you need.

But see here's the thing - it would also be crazy to let in fewer people than you need. If you want an example, just look at all those monoethnic paradises in Asia who are all suffering from low birthrates and labor shortages, yet steadfastly refuse to let in any more than the bare minimum number of immigrants because of their blind belief in national pride and cultural purity.

[Mayhem]

Nah, Europe is determined to liberal itself right into the abyss. I feel bad for their "intelligent" citizens, as the libs are determined to destroy and transform EU. I hate to say it, but it is providing the perfect example for the US to avoid the left/liberal agenda. Thank you for taking the hit Europe!

You´re welcome!

[Alydael]

I know right? it would be crazy to let more people in than you need.

If you didn't have jobs for these people (since the economy doesn't need them) what would you do with them? I guess "ohdearuk" is going to come forward and, in all his/her generosity and virtues, is going to provide the money and jobs these people need to survive, Nice job, "ohdearuk"! We appreciate your help on this issue (we even printed up a little humanitarian award for you). In the future, all immigrants/migrants/ refugees- will forward their request for welfare to "Ohdearuk" He/she has clearly stated that he/she is ready to help those in need, even if we don't "need" them.

[Mehrunes]

I don't quite understand why people tend to associate far right with nationalism. Far right simply means a very strong focus on free market with little to no control over corporations and such, it doesn't have to feature nationalism.

Because theory and practice differ. And what you described is right wing in general. Far part of either end of the spectrum attracts extremists. Nationalists of all kinds are the bread and butter of the right extremists. I wonder why people associate the two too.

Nah, Europe is determined to liberal itself right into the abyss. I feel bad for their "intelligent" citizens, as the libs are determined to destroy and transform EU. I hate to say it, but it is providing the perfect example for the US to avoid the left/liberal agenda. Thank you for taking the hit Europe!

US may avoid the left "agenda" because red scare brainwashing turned out to be more effective than anyone could have hoped for, but it's not doing so well on avoiding the liberal "agenda".

[Alydael]

You can't get much more far right in modern times than the good old USA. Even your 'left wing' candidate is right wing

No one knows where Clinton stands, not even herself. She changes with the wind. Which is why only a psycho would even consider a vote for her. I admire her audacity though. She has basically gambled that she could lie straight to everyone's face and still get the votes. It was a bold move, but she knows the left. They will vote for anything. Even a "left" candidate whose beliefs define her as authoritarian right.

[Mayhem]

No one knows where Clinton stands, not even herself. She changes with the wind. Which is why only a psycho would even consider a vote for her. I admire her audacity though. She has basically gambled that she could lie straight to everyone's face and still get the votes. It was a bold move, but she knows the left. They will vote for anything.

You´re a Trump supporter?

[Deleted]

I don't quite understand why people tend to associate far right with nationalism. Far right simply means a very strong focus on free market with little to no control over corporations and such, it doesn't have to feature nationalism.

That's probably the US.

In Europe the right side is the conservative side: tradition, national unity, protectionism.

Not necessarily a bad thing.

[Alydael]

Because theory and practice differ. And what you described is right wing in general. Far part of either end of the spectrum attracts extremists. Nationalists of all kinds are the bread and butter of the right extremists. I wonder why people associate the two too.




US may avoid the left "agenda" because red scare brainwashing turned out to be more effective than anyone could have hoped for, but it's not doing so well on avoiding the liberal "agenda".

Unfortunately, we are paying the price for the liberal agenda (Just ask Chicago, Obama's hometown- setting records for murders), but nothing is perfect. We couldn't hope to avoid all the bad things in the world.

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And Trump is different.. how exactly?

Did I say he was? Quote me if I did.

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Because theory and practice differ. And what you described is right wing in general. Far part of either end of the spectrum attracts extremists. Nationalists of all kinds are the bread and butter of the right extremists. I wonder why people associate the two too.




US may avoid the left "agenda" because red scare brainwashing turned out to be more effective than anyone could have hoped for, but it's not doing so well on avoiding the liberal "agenda".

Really? What benefit is this "liberal agenda" providing?

[Deleted]

So I was perusing some European news outlets and came across several different articles addressing this topic. This is a sensitive topic with high potential to turn into ideological mud flinging so let's try to narrow things down a bit. Instead of debating weather or not you support/oppose this sort of thing, let's discuss if the resurgence of European nationalism is, in fact, real. Does it have staying power? Will it have any significant effect on the politics of the continent as a whole?

No, it isn't. Europe is not lurching to the far right.

What's happening is that conservative parties are constantly losing ground to the Europian Parliament, which is dominated by progressives, socialist, liberals, democrats and christian centrists, all of whom are working together within a pro-European framework. The united conservative right is not strong enough at the European level to compete with those progressive forces. So rather than fight them there, they opt to fight the European progressives and centrists locally.

Nowhere is this more obvious than in the United Kingdom, where the conservative party has a parliamentairy majority in spite of receiving barely a third of the popular vote (first-past-the-post voting really sucks). So while they are relatively powerful locally, they are powerless on the European level, where all their conservative fantasies are grinded to dust by the progressive majority.

To elaborate on this: if the Conservative Party manages to drag the UK out of the European Union, they are pretty much guaranteed complete control over the British Parliament for the forseeable future without anyone to counter them elsewhere, because Labour is effectively out of power even though the Labour Party receives about the same amount of votes, all due to the fucked up British election system. The upcoming referendum is deep down not about Europe at all; it is about who gets to have local power in England. All the rhetoric about 'Europe not listening to the common man' exist just to hide that the Conservative Party is effectively attempting a political coup under the pretense of democratic validity (which it doesn't actually have).

In short: the conservative right would rather be a big fish in a small pond (nationally) than a little fish in a big pond (Europe).

[Alydael]

You´re a Trump supporter?

No, I dislike all politicians across the board. I consider them liars and cheats. I do not think that there will be any real "change" until, we as a people- reject them as a whole and get new people to serve.

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And Trump is different.. how exactly?


The PVV and Trump voters have many things in common, one of them: They are proven to be lower educated in general.
So please tell me how you feel bad for the "intelligent" citizens.

I feel bad for "intelligent" (in the "USA")people because look at the choice.

[Deleted]

Well I'm afraid Europe is going right, especially in Poland & Hungary, and afaik almost in Austria (a crazy dude lost with 49,65% election~ ).
Left is killing themselves in Europe by inviting imigrants, and while I think I prefer left more (I'm economics student) and believe it's far more progressive, the presence of Russia and inviting Muslim ppl against the will of some EU countries is what makes me consider all of my beliefs.

[Deleted]

No, I dislike all politicians across the board. I consider them liars and cheats. I do not think that there will be any real "change" until, we as a people- reject them as a whole and get new people to serve.

Politics is essentially about communication between people. Politics will not change as long as we don't change the way we communicate between people politically. We're stuck with essentially a 19th century system that has barely seen any kind of change or innovation despite massive technological innovation in communication technology.

People are angry and cynic because they want to be part of the conversation, but our political institutions are keeping us out.

[Mehrunes]

Really? What benefit is this "liberal agenda" providing?

How did the issue of benefits magically enter the picture all of a sudden?