1. #1
    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Why Bernie Sanders is Not as Good a Candidate as People Believe he is

    I understand that he is largely popular because he wants to implement free college tuition and healthcare and even even offers ways to pay for them through taxation, but he is not so good on immigration policy. If we start offering free college tuition and free healthcare, then there will be a massive flood on immigrants on our boarders. This will not only make job competition much more fierce, but Bernie would then have to tax people even more to afford the massive influx of immigrants wanting free college and healthcare. People talk about free college and healthcare in a bubble, but they are affected by a multitude of other things. Yes, I understand free college and healthcare sounds nice, but major immigration problems need to be sorted first. I wish the United States could support the whole world, but in reality it simply cannot.

    Secondly, I know that free college and healthcare has worked for other countries, but those those countries tend to lack in innovation. The United States is the most innovative country in the entire world. We are at the very top of the food chain when it comes to technological marvels, gadgets, and gizmos. These technological innovations contribute a lot to maintaining the United States status as the world's greatest superpower. In large part, the biggest and most profitable companies are American or started in America. If people start asking for massively increased taxes on these companies for free college and healthcare, then companies are not going to have as much money to invest research and development projects and as a result our country's overall innovation will suffer. If free college and healthcare policies are implemented, then the United States may loose its place as the worlds greatest innovator. As a consequence, the United States would also lose its status the world's greatest superpower. Not to mention, these major companies will eventually just relocate to another country where the tax burdens are less. This will cost Americans hundreds of thousands or even millions of jobs. This is all thanks to the forces of globalization.

    I hate corporations as much as the next person. I think they are nothing but greed mongers, but I can see that no single nation is going to be able to combat major corporations without severe losses to its people. Policing corporations is going to take a world effort, meaning governments across the globe will have to compromise and come together for the greater goal of improving peoples lives not of their own country but of the entire world. In short policing corporations is ultimately going to take governments and politicians thinking in a much more global perspective instead of only worrying about their own people. Maybe this is the beginning of the need for a global government.

    Besides that last part, the first and second paragraph are why Bernie is not as good a candidate as people want to believe. He doesn't think too far ahead about the consequences of his ideas if they are implemented.

    TLDR: If Bernie Sanders policies are implemented there would be a massive rush of immigration toward the United States for free college and healthcare. Ultimately, this would drive up tax rates in order to pay for the surge of immigrants wanting free stuff. Secondly, Bernie Sanders tax policies toward corporations would stifle innovation causing companies to invest less in reach and development projects. Ultimately, this would hurt Americas status as the worlds greatest superpower because America is dependent on high levels of technological advancement in order to remain at the top.

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    some people like high immigration and see that as a good thing.

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    So America should not have free college and healthcare because they are innovative? My brain.

    You believe that technological innovation should take first place over the well being and livelihood (healthcare and free college) of the American People. Guess we'll have to wait for the election on that one.

    Also how do you know if free college would diminish technological innovation instead of improving it? ...Except you don't of course.
    Last edited by Radaney; 2016-05-29 at 10:26 PM.

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    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radaney View Post
    So America should not have free college and healthcare because they are innovative? My brain.

    You believe that technological innovation should take first place over the well being and livelihood (healthcare and free college) of the American People.

    Also how do you know if free college would diminish technological innovation instead of improving it? ...Except you don't of course.
    No, free college and healthcare would hurt innovation. Please read harder. Secondly, high levels of technological innovation is tied to our well being here in America like it or not.

  5. #5
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    I live in denmark. We pay 45+ % tax, yet are among some of the worlds top inventors compared to our population. We got many billion dollar companies, so saying taxing will limit innovation is just stupid, and you have no basis for saying that.

    Additionally you of course put limitations on when immigrants can receive these kind of care.

    Did you ever think your post through before posting?

    Edit: I think this is the short mindedness that leads people to believe trump is actually a proper candidate

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    some people like high immigration and see that as a good thing.
    People who want to destroy the welfare state and create a permanent class of economic slaves?
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  7. #7
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    I don't know if you're aware, but the United States has depended on immigration for a very long time. Some of our greatest scientists, innovators, and brilliant minds have come to us from other countries. Why shouldn't we be trying to attract more, especially through legal channels? I don't think very many people are against LEGAL immigration, but are instead against illegal immigration and refugees.

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    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarzer View Post
    I live in denmark. We pay 45+ % tax, yet are among some of the worlds top inventors compared to our population. We got many billion dollar companies, so saying taxing will limit innovation is just stupid, and you have no basis for saying that.

    Additionally you of course put limitations on when immigrants can receive these kind of care.

    Did you ever think your post through before posting?

    Edit: I think this is the short mindedness that leads people to believe trump is actually a proper candidate
    Look at the population of your country. It is peanuts compared to the U.S. That's why high innovation is so easy for your country. Plus the last time I checked Denmark has some really tough immigration policy. So yeah, stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    some people like high immigration and see that as a good thing.
    Yeah, immigrants usually see it as a good thing and that's about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zarzer View Post
    I live in denmark. We pay 45+ % tax, yet are among some of the worlds top inventors compared to our population. We got many billion dollar companies, so saying taxing will limit innovation is just stupid, and you have no basis for saying that.

    Additionally you of course put limitations on when immigrants can receive these kind of care.

    Did you ever think your post through before posting?

    Edit: I think this is the short mindedness that leads people to believe trump is actually a proper candidate
    Immigrants always find ways to weasel their way through cracks in legislation in order to take advantage of the stuff that native born people should only have. Better to just have much stricter immigration policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    No, free college and healthcare would hurt innovation. Please read harder. Secondly, high levels of technological innovation is tied to our well being here in America like it or not.
    Please read what you wrote and tell me how Free College and Healthcare does not increase the well being of Americans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal
    grim toll is the worst trinket you could get for survival. Hands down Meteorite wheat stone is better than it.

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    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    I don't know if you're aware, but the United States has depended on immigration for a very long time. Some of our greatest scientists, innovators, and brilliant minds have come to us from other countries. Why shouldn't we be trying to attract more, especially through legal channels? I don't think very many people are against LEGAL immigration, but are instead against illegal immigration and refugees.
    Yeah, no. Immigration sucks. It drags down wages, takes away jobs, overfills schools, and leads to higher taxes. Fuck immigrants not because I am racist, but because they do so much economic harm. Sounds like you are angry because you are an immigrant or have parents that immigrates here illegally.

  11. #11
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    Another "candidate x is wrong because I pulled some ideas out of my arse in total ignorance of history, statistics, or indeed pretty much anything apart from establishment media and clickbait articles, plus my own instinctive reaction".

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zarzer View Post
    I live in denmark. We pay 45+ % tax, yet are among some of the worlds top inventors compared to our population. We got many billion dollar companies, so saying taxing will limit innovation is just stupid, and you have no basis for saying that.

    Additionally you of course put limitations on when immigrants can receive these kind of care.

    Did you ever think your post through before posting?

    Edit: I think this is the short mindedness that leads people to believe trump is actually a proper candidate
    You're just not reading hard enough. You need to find a big book and give it to one of your friends and have them beat you around the head. Then you'll understand what he's talking about.

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  14. #14
    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adocul View Post
    Please read what you wrote and tell me how Free College and Healthcare does not increase the well being of Americans.
    Yahoo Free college and healthcare, big deal! When you are paying double or triple the amount in taxes that Bernie promised would only be slightly more because he didn't foresee the problems of massive immigration. I could probably make more money in my lifetime after paying off college debt and paying for my own healthcare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmelded View Post
    How about shut up, and it may work.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    No, free college and healthcare would hurt innovation. Please read harder. Secondly, high levels of technological innovation is tied to our well being here in America like it or not.
    ...no. The complete opposite is true. Forcing poor people to pay for an education they can't afford would destroy innovation and limit education only to those who are already wealthy. There's a reason why the USA isn't top of any of the good lists anymore when it comes to technology.

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    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    There is purely speculation and you have no proof of it. Also Health care and Education use to be very affordable, unlike now and we were plenty innovated.
    You don't think Americas prosperity is dependent on it's massive amount of innovation that comes from corporations? What planet do you live on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    ...no. The complete opposite is true. Forcing poor people to pay for an education they can't afford would destroy innovation and limit education only to those who are already wealthy. There's a reason why the USA isn't top of any of the good lists anymore when it comes to technology.
    Are you nucking futs? Look at how many more patents we have than other nations. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/...af/us_stat.htm
    Besides, I never said education shouldn't be subsidized, it should be subsidized more than it is now. But making it free would just hurt companies trying to invest in R&D too much.
    Last edited by nanook12; 2016-05-29 at 10:51 PM.

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    Is this an excerpt from that new book? "Conjecture for Dummies!"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    You don't think Americas prosperity is dependent on it's massive amount of innovation that comes from corporations? What planet do you live on?

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    You are so full of beans it hurts. Are you nucking futs? Look at how many more patents we have than other nations. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/...af/us_stat.htm
    Could I kindly suggest you educate yourself to an elemnentary level on the subject before attempting to form an opinion? Thanks.

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    A little verbose, but I largely agree. Most of his proposals won't ever pass Congress, and many aren't very realistic. I would love to see some financial/bank reform, and I'm sure if he won he'd have at least been able to get a neutered version of it through.

    Trump and Sanders both have that in common, in that their proposals aren't terribly realistic. Either of them would be lucky to get 10% of what they've proposed actually passed.

    One dirty little secret about conservatives and immigration is that they don't really want zero immigration, since that would hurt various agricultural and other industries that rely on cheap migrant (and largely illegal) labor. So they want enough to support those super-low wage and very tough manual labor jobs that they otherwise won't fill, but not too much. Fruit and vegetable prices would probably triple if they actually all went legit and above the table with $10-$15/hr US workers.
    Last edited by Auxora; 2016-05-29 at 10:53 PM.

  20. #20
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    We already have a thread on Bernie here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e-Sanders-2016

    Also, do not reopen closed threads.

    closing

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