1. #1
    Deleted

    Baltimus Retribution: The JUST build 2.0

    Hello fellow Paladins, I made a second Retribution build that i put allot of time and thoughts into it.
    It is a very interesting and importantly a fun build without any mayor overhaul.
    I hope i have adjusted and sorted any problems that i have read in the forums that caused difficulties in Legion (Mostly PvE issues).
    I focused this build into a much smoother rotation within allot of opportunity making our class feel like a real Juggernaut with low mobility but with enough chances to catch our foe's.

    Enjoy the read and please feel free to leave any comment or feedback behind.

    Greetings, Baltimus(bruh).

    Mastery

    • Hand of Light:

    Your Holy Power consumers and generators deal % additional damage as Holy damage.

    Note: I reverted back to the old mastery which didn’t cause any complicated problems and benefits single target as AoE.

    Spells

    • Judgment:

    Instant cast 30yd range 12sec cd
    Causes Holy damage and generates 1 Holy Power.

    Note: Because I went back to the old Mastery, Judgment must also be reverted back to the old Judgment. I kept the cooldown and damage from Legion.

    • Crusader Strike:

    Remove charges and make the cooldown 3sec baseline.

    Note: This build haves other ways to build HoPo, so no need for charges anymore.

    • Blade of Justice:

    Changed the range ability into a melee range hit.

    Note: It should be feeling rewarding to gain 2 HoPo to hit the target up close.

    • Hammer of Wrath:

    Instant cast 6sec cd
    Hurls a magical hammer that strikes a enemy dealing Holy damage. Only usable on enemies that have 30% or less health.
    Generates 1 Holy Power.

    Note: Nothing to discus here because we all agree to keep this iconic spell for Retribution.

    • Divine Storm:

    Give its old animation back and always cause to heal (changed Healing Storm trait).

    • Consecration:

    Is now baseline for all Paladins.

    • Divine Steed:

    Is now Baseline for all Paladins.

    Note: This is just for pure PvE reasons to avoid some sort of raid mechanics or hard target swapping.

    • Shield of Vengeance:

    Reduced the cooldown to 1min (Changed Deflection trait).

    • Hand of Martyr:

    Instant cast 1min cd
    Places a Hand on an enemy target. Sacrificing a small amount of his health, healing you for 3% per sec for 10sec.

    Note: Reformed and retaken this lost ability ‘Hand of Light’ from Legion, so that it suits more the fantasy of Retribution.

    • Divine Hammers:

    Is now baseline for Retribution.
    Instant 3sec cd
    Deals 60% Physical damage to enemies within 8yd range (removed damage over time).
    Generates 1 Holy Power when you hit 3 targets or more.

    Note: We much needed instant AoE ability. You prioritize this above CS when there are 3 targets or more to gain the 1 HoPo.

    • Word of Glory:

    Instant cast 3 Holy Power
    A very strong heal that heals a friendly target.

    Note: It is a very strong heal because we sacrifice damage for a heal so this heal must be worth to cast it.

    • Greater Blessings:

    Note: Changed some effects because it wasn’t interesting or cause to much discussion.

    Wisdom: Regenerates important resources every 15sec.
    1 HoPo, 1 Soul Shard, 10 Runic Power, 10 Furry, 10 Energy, 10 Rage, 10 Focus, 10 Maelstrom, 10 Insanity, 100 Astral Power. (Classes with no resources, just reduce the mana cost of spells by 10%)
    Kings: Unchanged. (Absorb effect)
    Might: Cause all attacks to have a chance to increased the two highest secondary stats by % for 8sec.

    Note: Making Paladins almost mandatory to be acquired in raids, providing useful buffs. Numbers can be tuned if its to strong for a buff.

    Passives

    • Art of War:

    Your auto-attacks have a 15% chance to reset the cooldown of Judgment and increase its damage by %.

    Note: making it worth prioritizing this proc above CS or BoJ.

    • Hearth of the Crusader:

    Increase your movement speed and mounted speed by 20%. This does not stack with other movement speed.

    Note: Because we as Retribution lacking intentionally mobility, must we need some other forms to keep up with our targets.

    Talents

    Lvl 15 [Gapclosers row]

    Note: Now we can choose between 3 unique gapclosers. A teleport, charge and a leap, with interesting effects making them different from any other classes.

    • Execution Sentence:

    Instant cast 20yd range 20sec cd
    A hammer slowly falls from the sky, dealing Holy damage over 10 sec.
    Reactivating this ability, Cause you to teleport you above the target location and culminate the remaining seconds into a final burst.

    Note: When dispelled, it doesn’t teleport the paladin but triggers the final burst of the remaining duration

    • Divine Charger:

    Instant cast 8-25yd range 45sec cd
    Causing you Holy mount to charge at the enemy , knocking down any enemy on his path, dealing Psychical damage.
    Replaces Divine Steed.

    Note: The 100% speed buff will still apply after the charge and you can trigger the speed buff without any target requirement.

    • Turalyon’s Might:

    Instant cast 30yd range 30sec cd
    Leap yourself to a targeted location. Forcing your sword into the ground, dealing Holy damage. Causes enemies to be incapacitated including yourself and radiates Holy damage for 3sec

    Note: Everyone got excited when they first announced it but then later they removed it. That’s why I brought it back to this form.

    Lvl 30 [HoPo row]

    • The fire of Justice:

    Crusaders Strike deals now Holy damage and apply Righteous Fire to the target, dealing Holy Fire damage every 3 sec over 15 sec. Righteous Fire Critical hits generates 1 Holy Power.

    Note: Making crit build interesting and that’s why I put Righteous Vengeance as a passive to make it up for lower ilvl gear early game.

    • Divine Judgment:

    Judgment causes your next 3 Holy Power abilities to cost 1 less Holy Power.

    Note: If you want a more control based HoPo management.

    • Divine purpose:

    Your Holy Power consuming abilities have a 25% chance to make your next Holy Power consuming ability free.

    Note: If you like a bit more RNG into your rotation. Opposite of Divine Judgment.

    Lvl 45 [CC row]

    • Fist of Justice:

    Your Holy Power abilities reduce the remaining cooldown of Hammer of Justice by 8sec.

    • Repentance:

    Instant cast 30sec cd 30yd range
    Forces a enemy target to meditate, incapitating the target for 30sec.

    Note: Made it instant because as a melee spec I don’t want to stand still to cast something, but increased its cooldown to 30sec and removed the self damaging because I don’t find it fitting damaging yourself while meditating.

    • Blinding Light:

    Instant cast 1min cd
    Emits a dazzling light in all directions, blinding enemies within 10 yards to wander disoriented for 6 sec. Holy damage will not break the disorient effect.

    Lvl 60 [Seal row]

    • Seal of Command:

    All melee attacks deal 10% Holy damage and hit up to 2 additional targets with single target hits. Seal of Command gives all melee attacks a additional chance to deal 36% Holy damage.

    • Seal of the Crusader:

    5 Holy Power 1 min cd
    Draws upon the Paladin's Holy energy to increase Haste, Crit and Mastery by % for 45sec.

    • Seal of Light:

    Increases your attack speed by 100% and Increase your Holy damage by 10%, also causes all your auto-attacks to heal you for 2% of your health.

    Lvl 75 [AoE row]

    • Mass Judgment:

    Your Judgment ability hits 5 nearby enemies and always deals a critical strike against targets above 50% health.

    Note: Still only grant 1 HoPo.

    • Greater Consecration:

    Cause Consecration to follow your path and enemies affected by Consecration have a 35% chance to empowers Divine Hammers increasing its damage by %.

    Note: Always 35% chance no matter how many enemies are affected by Consecration. This talent is for the ones who favors a RNG build.

    • Zeal:

    Instant cast 3sec cd
    An instant strike dealing 285% Physical damage. Zeal strikes up to 3 nearby target.
    Generates 1 Holy Power.
    Replaces Crusader Strike.

    Note: When you pick Fire of Justice, Zeal will deal Holy damage instead and still apply the Righteous Fire effect.

    Lvl 90 [Survivability row]

    • Divine Intervention:

    Increase the effects of Shield of Vengeance by %. In addition any attack that reduce you below 30%, triggers Shield of Vengeance effect. This effect cannot occur more than once every 60 sec.

    Note: It only apply the Shield of Vengeance effect, meaning that the ability itself wont trigger.

    • Equality:

    Instant cast 30yd range 2min cd
    You link yourself with your target. When linked, you both share remaining health and distributed among each other equally.

    Note: If you are 10% and the target is 100%, it will count both health up = 110% and divide between you two, meaning; heals you back to 55% health and damage the target to 55% health. If the target was a boss, the 55% damage will be calculated with your health, instead of the boss health (for balance reasons ofc).

    • Eye for an Eye:

    Instant cast 1min cd
    Absorb any enemy damage taken by for 35% of its damage and reflect it back as Holy damage. Lasts 10 sec.

    Note: The damage cannot exceed over 35% of your total hp.

    Lvl 100 [Single target row]

    • Blessing of Wrath:

    Immerge and increase the effect and proc chance of your Greater Blessing by 100%. Can only be placed on yourself.

    • Greater Judgment:

    Judgment causes your next 3 Holy Power abilities increased by %.

    Note: Got nice synergy with Divine Judgment.

    • Divine Wrath:

    Hammer of Wrath is usable regardless of how many health the enemy got but deals half damage against enemies above 30% or more health and deals double the damage against enemies below 30% or less health.
    Replaces Hammer of Wrath.

    Artifact

    I really dislike traits with simple added a amount of percentage to it. it show how uncreative and boring it is. That is why i made those traits way more fun and interesting.

    • Wake of Ashes: [Rank 0/1] [First trait]

    Instant 30sec cd
    Lash out with the Ashbringer, dealing Holy Fire damage to all enemies within 12yd in front of you.
    Demons and Undead enemies are stunned for 6sec.
    Generates 5 Holy Power.

    • Ashes to Ashes: [Rank0/1] [Greater Trait]

    Wake of Ashes causes all enemies to burn for Holy Fire damage for 6sec and whenever a enemy dies by Ashes to Ashes, turns them into a pile of ashes and consecrates the ground.

    Note: Does not apply the Greater Consecration effect when picked as a talent. The Consecration effect from this trait is a lesser form of Consecration but can stack up.

    • Echo of the Highlord: [Rank 0/1] [Greater Trait]

    After casting Templar’s Verdict or Divine Storm. Reduce the next Templar’s Verdict or Divine Storm Holy Power cost by 1.
    Can occur only once every 15sec.

    Note: If you cast TV the next TV will cost 1 less not DS and vice versa

    • Blade of Lights: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser trait]

    Crusader strike has a 35% chance to cause 4 weapons of the light to smash your target, each dealing Holy damage.

    • Storm of Vengeance: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait] (replace Healing Storm)

    Increase Divine Storm radius by 100%

    • Divine Tempest: [Rank 0/1] [Greater Trait]

    Divine Storm last for 3sec.

    • Deliver the Justice: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Increase your special melee attacks range by 1.7yd.

    • Wrath of the Ashbringer: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait]

    When Avenging Wrath ends, Ashbringer will erupt with holy energy, dealing 20% of the damage you dealt during Avenging Wrath to all nearby targets.

    • Sharpened Edge: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Increase the critical strike chance and damage on all your melee abilities by 2%

    • Might of the Templar: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Templar’s Verdict heals you for 11% of the amount of damage it deals.

    • Deflection: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    All critical effect taken by will reflect 1% of its damage back to the enemy.

    • Highlord’s Judgment: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Judgment will immediately add 2sec to the duration of all of your currently applied Hand and Blessing spells.

    Note: Cannot be applied on the same Hand or Blessings for the second time.

    • Righteous Blade: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Your auto-attacks damage have a 5% chance to convert into Holy damage instead.

    • Embrace the Light: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Flash of Light and Word of Glory now also heals a second ally for 15% of the amount.

    Note: Always heals the lowest health ally.

    • Protector of the Ashen Blade: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Hand of Protection now also provides 10% magic damage reduction.

    • Endless Resolve: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait]

    Abilities that causes Forbearance, no longer apply Forbearance.

    Note: Only apply this to yourself.

    • Unbreakable Will: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait]

    Hand of Freedom now also removes any stun effects.




    I know it was a long post but i hope you enjoyed reading it and i would really appreciate leaving a comment or feedback behind.

    Greetings, Baltimus(bruh).
    Last edited by mmoc4bd380d75b; 2016-07-31 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Adjusting build, in line with the feedback from Teleros.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    -Bump-

    Come on guys, Isn't this build balanced around the problems Paladin lacks?
    - Mastery that benefits AoE.
    - Smooth rotation.
    - Feeling like a juggernaut but with enough little bit of mobility to make us viable in PvE and PvP
    - Having AoE on demand.
    - Fun and interesting Talents and Artifact traits.

    I really do wanna hear your thoughts about it, Can't be that bad right? xD

    Greetings, Baltimus.

  3. #3
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Come on guys, Isn't this build balanced around the problems Paladin lacks?
    I think it's just that we're focused on making what we're going to get work :P . Anyway...

    = + =

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Mastery: Hand of Light

    Your Holy Power consumers and generators deal 17.0% additional damage as Holy damage.

    Note: I reverted back to the old mastery which didn’t cause any complicated problems and benefits single target as AoE.
    Fine in principle, and easy to balance etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Judgment:

    Instant cast 30yd range 12sec cd
    Causes Holy damage and generates 1 Holy Power.

    Note: Because I went back to the old Mastery, Judgment must also be reverted back to the old Judgment.
    Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Crusader Strike
    Remove charges.
    With Crusader Strike still having a 4.5sec baseline CD, you've nerfed the rate at which Ret can build HP quite substantially.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Blade of Justice
    Additionally slows the target for 50% for 3sec.

    Note: Grant only 1 HoPo because Judgment now generates 1 Holy Power
    See note re CS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Hand of hindrance
    Removed.

    Note: Baked it in with BoJ but with lesser effects.
    Not sure about this. The BoJ snare is weaker (50% vs 70%), and it adds a clash to the rotation in PvP (do I want to do damage/generate HP with BoJ, or snare?)... whether this is intentional is another matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Storm
    Give its old animation back and always cause to heal (changed healing Storm).
    No problems here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Consecration
    Is now baseline for all Paladins.
    As above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Steed
    Is now Baseline for all Paladins.

    Note: This is just for pure PvE reasons to avoid some sort of raid mechanics or hard target swapping.
    Sensible change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Hammers
    Is now baseline for Retribution.

    Note: We much needed standard a instant AoE ability for the lack of instant AoE demand tools.
    Quite a lot of AE for Ret now: Divine Hammers (does it still generate 1HP?), Consecration, and Divine Storm.

    That said, 2/3 of them are AE over time - ie Divine Hammers and Consecration. Call it ~18k damage per tick for DH, and 11k for Consecration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Word of Glory
    Instant cast 3 Holy Power
    A very strong heal that heals a friendly target.

    Note: It is a very strong heal because we sacrifice damage for a heal so this heal must be worth to cast it, restoring +- 30% health back.
    Fine, though without numbers it's awkward :P .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Greater Blessings
    Note: Changed some effects because it wasn’t interesting or cause to much discussion.

    Wisdom: Regenerates important resources every 15sec.
    1 HoPo, 1 Soul Shard, 10 Runic Power, 10 Furry, 10 Energy, 10 Rage, 10 Focus, 10 Maelstrom, 10 Insanity, 100 Astral Power. (Classes with no resources, just regenerates 1% mana and health)
    Kings: Unchanged. (Absorb effect)
    Might: Cause all attacks to have a chance to increased the two highest secondary stats by % for 8sec.

    Note: Making Paladins almost mandatory to be acquired in raids, providing useful buffs.
    Worried that GBoW and GBoM might be a bit too good here: you don't want Ret to be too mandatory, because stacking one class/spec is generally something Blizzard frowns upon for balancing purposes.

    = + =

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Art of War
    Your Holy Power abilities have a 20% chance to reset the cooldown of Judgment.
    Spenders or consumers - or both?

    Either way it's a nice idea. However, it's only useful if Judgement is important enough that you will want to take advantage of this proc: if Judgement is a weak attack, then this proc is of very limited utility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Righteous Vengeance
    Dealing a critical strike from any ability, increase your critical strike chance by 3% for 9seconds This effect stacks up to 3 times.
    Not sure about this one really. If you stack crit for it then the bonus you get becomes progressively weaker relative to what you already have. For example, let's call it a 10% buff for ease of number-crunching: if you have 20% crit, then +10% crit means you're critting 150% as much as before. But if you have 50% crit, then +10% means you're only critting 120% as much. So as your gear improves, Righteous Vengeance will become less effective a buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Hearth of the Crusader
    Increase your movement speed and mounted speed by 20%. This does not stack with other movement speed.

    Note: Because we as Retribution lacking intentionally mobility, must we need some other forms to keep up with our targets.
    I've said the same thing, so not going to criticise you for it .

    = + =

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Execution Sentence
    Instant cast 20yd range 15sec cd
    A hammer slowly falls from the sky, dealing Holy damage over 10 sec.
    Reactivating this ability, Cause you to teleport you above the target location and culminate the remaining seconds into a final burst.

    Note: When dispelled, it doesn’t teleport the paladin but triggers the final burst of the remaining duration
    I'm assuming you can trigger the ability whilst it's on CD, otherwise it makes little sense .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Charger
    Instant cast 8-25yd range 45sec cd
    Causing you Holy mount to charge at the enemy , knocking down any enemy on his path, dealing heavy Psychical damage.
    Replaces Divine Steed.

    Note: The 100% speed buff will still apply after the charge and you can trigger the speed buff without any target requirement.
    So charge followed by sprint? Interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Turalyon’s Might
    Instant cast 30yd range 30sec cd
    Leap yourself to a targeted location. Forcing your sword into the ground, dealing heavy Holy damage. Causes enemies to be incapacitated including yourself and radiates Holy damage for 3sec

    Note: Everyone got excited when they first announced it but then later they removed it. That’s why I brought it back to this form.
    Nice idea, do like. I'd probably opt for this as the default choice on this row, because I'd then have:
    • Baseline +20%
    • Baseline 120% sprint for 45secs (Divine Steed benefits from Heart of the Crusader, so +20%)
    • Heroic Leap clone, eg when I want to get out of boss AE etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    The fire of Justice
    Crusaders Strike deals now Holy damage and apply Righteous Fire to the target, dealing Holy damage every 3 sec over 15 sec. Righteous Fire Critical hits generates 1 Holy Power.

    Note: Making crit build interesting and that’s why I put Righteous Vengeance as a passive to make it up for lower ilvl gear early game.
    Okay; makes Righteous Vengeance make more sense now. That said, whether you should be "making up for lower iLevel gear" is something you should consider - after all, you're supposed to do less damage (and generate fewer resources) then .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Judgment
    Judgment causes your next 3 Holy Power abilities to cost 1 less Holy Power.

    Note: If you want a more control based HoPo management.
    Hmm. So I can do:

    Judge > 5HP > TV > 3HP > TV > 1HP > CS > 2HP > TV

    Could be a bit potent at times, but that's a numbers thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine purpose
    Your Holy Power consuming abilities have a 25% chance to make your next Holy Power consuming ability free.

    Note: If you like a bit more RNG into your rotation. Opposite of Divine Judgment.
    Fair enough, nothing wrong here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Fist of Justice
    Your Holy Power abilities reduce the remaining cooldown of Hammer of Justice by 8sec.

    Repentance
    Instant cast 1min cd 30yd range
    Forces a enemy target to meditate, incapitating the target for 1min.

    Note: Made it instant because as a melee spec I don’t want to stand still to cast something, but increased its cooldown back to 1min and removed the self damaging because I don’t find it fitting damaging yourself while meditating.

    Blinding Light
    Instant cast 1min cd
    Emits a dazzling light in all directions, blinding enemies within 10 yards to wander disoriented for 6 sec. Holy damage will not break the disorient effect.
    Generally fine. I still wouldn't take Blinding Light though, because disorients are pretty weak as CC goes. Repentance... maybe, but I dislike the 1min CD on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Seal of Command
    All melee attacks deal 10% Holy damage and hit up to 2 additional targets with single target hits. Seal of Command gives all melee attacks a additional chance to deal 36% Holy damage.

    Seal of the Crusader
    5 Holy Power 1 min cd
    Draws upon the Paladin's Holy energy to increase Haste, Crit and Mastery by 1000 for 45sec.

    Seal of Light
    Increases your attack speed by 100% and Increase your Holy damage by 10%, also causes all your auto-attacks to heal you for 2% of your health.
    Nice ideas here, though numbers may need to be looked at. I should also note that Seal of the Crusader works quite different from the other two, and in a "burst CD" kind of way - something I'm always wary of with Ret, which has tended to have low sustained damage but nerf-inducing burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Mass Judgment
    Your Judgment spell affects all enemies within 8yds of the target and increase the damage of Judgment by 100%

    Note: Still only grant 1 HoPo.
    I think this kind of damage is preferable to the Divine Hammer / Consecration variety - ie instant damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Greater Consecration
    Cause Consecration to follow your path and enemies affected by Consecration have 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Divine Hammers.
    If Divine Hammers can stack, this could be absurd with multiple mobs. Assuming 10 mobs, you have a 95% chance to reset the CD of Divine Hammers every tick. Intended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Zeal
    Instant melee 3sec recharge 2 Charges
    An instant strike dealing 285% Physical damage. Zeal strikes additional up to 3 nearby target.
    Generates 1 Holy Power and 1 additionally if a nearby target is hit by Zeal.
    Replaces Crusader Strike.

    Note: When you pick Fire of Justice, Zeal will deal Holy damage instead and still apply the Righteous fire effect.
    Not sure why I'd ever pick another talent, except for burst AE (Mass Judgement). Much more damage on single target fights, free cleave, and much more HP generated than baseline Crusader Strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Intervention
    Reduce your Shield of Vengeance cooldown by 50%. In addition any attack that reduce you below 30%, triggers Shield of Vengeance effect. This effect cannot occur more than once every 60 sec.

    Note: It only apply the Shield of Vengeance effect, meaning that the ability itself wont trigger.
    I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, it means 30sec SoV cooldowns with 3/3 Deflection (120secs * 0.5 -30secs), allowing for 50% uptime of SoV. On the other hand, it seems 1k AP really isn't that impressive as a defensive CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Equality
    Instant cast 30yd range 3min cd
    You link yourself with your target. When linked, you both share remaining health and distributed among each other equally.

    Note: If you are 10% and the target is 100%, it will count both health up = 110% and divide between you two, meaning; heals you back to 55% health and damage the target to 55% health. If the target was a boss, the 55% damage will be calculated with your health, instead of the boss health (for balance reasons ofc).
    Not sure it's worth it if it's a bursty version of Spirit Link totem, rather than one that lasts several seconds. I'd reduce the CD if it's the bursty kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Eye for an Eye
    Instant cast 1min cd
    Absorb any enemy damage taken by for 35% of its damage and reflect it back as Holy damage. Lasts 10 sec.

    Note: The damage cannot exceed over 35% of your total hp.
    Nice idea .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Blessing of Wrath
    Immerge and increase the effect and proc chance of your Greater Blessing by 100%. Can only be placed on yourself.

    Note: Every 7.5sec 2 HoPo and the absorption effect is twice as much. Chooses the 4 highest stats instead of 2 and their effects and proc chance are doubled.
    There are only four stats you can improve in the first place (Crit, Mastery, Haste, Versatility), so that bit can probably just be dumped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Greater Judgment
    Judgment causes your next 3 Holy Power abilities increased by 100%.

    Note: Got nice synergy with Divine Judgment.
    Bit scary TBH:

    Hammer of Justice > Avenging Wrath + Judge (5HP) > TV (3HP) > TV (1HP) > CS (2HP) > TV

    Assuming you keep the artefact traits the same, TV will deal 1,086.4% weapon damage as Holy, before Mastery: Hand of Light. With just the baseline amount, that increases it to 1,271.1% weapon damage as Holy. Then you have crits, Avenging Wrath, pots, trinket procs, and possibly the Retribution passive.

    So yeah, bit scary :P .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Crusade
    When Avenging Wrath is active, Blade of Justice changes into Blade of Wrath, reducing its cooldown to 3 sec, dealing 120% Holy damage and generates 1 Holy Power.
    Additionally, striking a enemy with Blade of Wrath causes to extend the duration of Avenging Wrath by 1.5sec.

    Note: This will extend Avenging Wrath to max. 30sec.
    I assume "120% Holy damage" is "120% of Blade of Justice's damage as Holy damage". Also, given that you can get up to 30sec durations on Avenging Wrath via traits, the last part is odd. Perhaps "cannot extend Avenging Wrath for more than 10secs" would work better.

    = + =

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Wake of Ashes: [Rank 0/1] [First trait]

    Instant 30sec cd
    Lash out with the Ashbringer, dealing Radiant damage to all enemies within 12yd in front of you.
    Has a high chance to instantly reduced any lesser demon or undead creatures into ashes.
    Generates 5 Holy Power.
    Damage over time still?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Ashes to Ashes: [Rank0/1] [Greater Trait]

    Whenever a enemy dies by your sword, turns them into a pile of ashes and consecrates the ground.

    Note: Does not apply the Greater Consecration effect when picked as a talent. The Consecration effect from this trait is a lesser form of Consecration but can stack up.
    Could be awkward when there's weak CC around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Echo of the Highlord: [Rank 0/1] [Greater Trait]

    Unchanged.
    This is one I'd honestly change, given how pants-on-head bad it is ATM. Well, maybe the DPS component works out nicely, but it looks bad, and 15% is a bit of a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Blade of Lights: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser trait]

    Crusader strike has a 35% chance to cause 4 weapons of the light to smash your target, each dealing Holy damage.
    Again, another reason to pick Zeal all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Storm of Vengeance: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait] (replace Healing Storm)

    Increase Divine Storm radius by 100%
    Nice idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Divine Tempest: [Rank 0/1] [Greater Trait]

    Divine Storm last for 4sec. Each second deals 25% less damage and healing
    Quite a powerful one, this. Again, not sure I like the emphasis on sustained AE (because it's so rarely required), but hey, free damage is free damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Deliver the Justice: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Increase your special melee attacks range by 1.7yd.
    Nice little buff I guess; not sure I really like it as a concept, but w/e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Wrath of the Ashbringer: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait]

    When Avenging Wrath ends, Ashbringer will erupt with holy energy, dealing 20% of the damage you dealt during Avenging Wrath to all nearby targets.
    This negates part of my notes about Crusade (above), but note you've gone from a 3 rank trait to a 1 rank one. Intended, for such a potent ability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Sharpened Edge: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Increase the critical strike chance and damage on all your melee abilities by 2%
    A definite improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Might of the Templar: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Templar’s Verdict heals you for 11% of the amount of damage it deals.
    Very nice, and it does reduce the burst in my Greater Judgement notes a bit, but only by a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Deflection: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    All critical effect taken by will reflect 1% of its damage back to the enemy.
    Not sure this is powerful enough to matter, really. If you get crit for 100k, that's at best 3k back to the enemy. Yawn.

    Does make Shield of Vengeance less OP given that above talent though... on the other hand it also means without that talent, SoV is quite lacklustre, having a 2min CD etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Highlord’s Judgment: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Judgment will immediately add 2sec to the duration of all of your currently applied Hand and Blessing spells.

    Note: Cannot be applied on the same Hand or Blessings for the second time.
    No Hand spells, so I assume you mean Blessings and Greater Blessings. +6secs on BoP or BoF could be quite interesting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Righteous Blade: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Your auto-attacks damage have a 5% chance to convert into Holy damage instead.
    Is it wrong that I now worry about not killing those magic-immune trash mobs in Blackwing Lair when farming stuff :P ?

    Anyway, a nice idea. Auto-attacks are really being left behind in Legion, what with all these huge weapon damage modifiers being thrown around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Embrace the Light: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Flash of Light and Word of Glory now also heals a second ally for 33% of the amount.

    Note: Always heals the lowest health ally.
    Pretty potent. Does this effect fizzle if there's no second ally (eg solo'ing stuff or 2v2s)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Protector of the Ashen Blade: [Rank 0/3] [Lesser Trait]

    Hand of Protection now also provides 11% magic damage reduction.
    That's a nice one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Endless Resolve: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait]

    Abilities that causes Forbearance, no longer apply Forbearance.
    To everyone or just to you? Because you don't want Ret-stacking to trivialise encounter mechanics etc. For example, suppose there's a caster mob that the tank has to handle for a whole minute. You have 3 Rets:
    T=00 = first BoP, extended to 16secs via Judgement
    T=16 = second BoP, extended as above
    T=32 = third BoP, also extended
    T=48 = tank & healer CDs for the next 12secs

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Unbreakable Will: [Rank 0/1] [Lesser Trait]

    Hand of Freedom now also removes any stun effects.
    Nice return to the WotLK version. Do like.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    I want to thank you with all my heart because i'm so thankful that you left such wonderful feedback with such nice constructive and honest feedback. I see you put allot of time and thinking to leave some feedback behind and again I want to thank you allot for your time.

    I am so happy to read your feedback and I will do my best to explain wherever explanation is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I think it's just that we're focused on making what we're going to get work :P . Anyway...
    Thanks for smashing my face back to reality ;P because this is true for what you said, knowing Blizzard view on Retribution.... A man can only dream right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    With Crusader Strike still having a 4.5sec baseline CD, you've nerfed the rate at which Ret can build HP quite substantially.
    My first intention was to make it a 3sec cd but I was worried because of haste reduce the cooldown and making it bit to overpowered? But if you think that 3sec is fine, fine for me to .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    See note re CS.
    I was also worried to gain to fast HoPo because some of the talents affect our HoPo playstyle, But if you think this will not be this case. me case es cu casa . (Back to gaining 2 HoPo BoJ)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Not sure about this. The BoJ snare is weaker (50% vs 70%), and it adds a clash to the rotation in PvP (do I want to do damage/generate HP with BoJ, or snare?)... whether this is intentional is another matter.
    I didn't think through this for PvP. (That's why I love some feedback and boy do I love yours.) Yes I think it's better to convert this back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Quite a lot of AE for Ret now: Divine Hammers (does it still generate 1HP?), Consecration, and Divine Storm.

    That said, 2/3 of them are AE over time - ie Divine Hammers and Consecration. Call it ~18k damage per tick for DH, and 11k for Consecration.
    I should add that Divine Hammers deals damage equal to the total amount it does in that 8sec (Removing AE over time).

    Ret AoE are clunky atm, We need to ramp up before hitting our strong AoE and at that time, adds could be dead already by other classes with better AoE and with that we put atleast some AoE damage before the adds die.

    Should I add that it only generates 1 HoPo when 3 or more targets are hit to balance HoPo gain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Worried that GBoW and GBoM might be a bit too good here: you don't want Ret to be too mandatory, because stacking one class/spec is generally something Blizzard frowns upon for balancing purposes.
    Numbers can be adjusted like 5 rage, ect... and the stats can be like 2% or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Spenders or consumers - or both?

    Either way it's a nice idea. However, it's only useful if Judgement is important enough that you will want to take advantage of this proc: if Judgement is a weak attack, then this proc is of very limited utility.
    Good question xD. 'whynotboth'jpg. ;P . Judgment damage must be higher than CS so you can prioritize it above CS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Not sure about this one really. If you stack crit for it then the bonus you get becomes progressively weaker relative to what you already have. For example, let's call it a 10% buff for ease of number-crunching: if you have 20% crit, then +10% crit means you're critting 150% as much as before. But if you have 50% crit, then +10% means you're only critting 120% as much. So as your gear improves, Righteous Vengeance will become less effective a buff.
    Wohohoo man, I'm not a mathematic genius like you are :O . I had no idea that it will become useless later ingame. My idea was just to add some crit value because of how low crit chance we have and to help out on the talent Fire of Justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I've said the same thing, so not going to criticise you for it .
    Glad we agree on this one buddy .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I'm assuming you can trigger the ability whilst it's on CD, otherwise it makes little sense .
    Absolutely!

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    So charge followed by sprint? Interesting idea.
    The knocking part on the path I find it personally way more interesting xD .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Nice idea, do like. I'd probably opt for this as the default choice on this row, because I'd then have:
    • Baseline +20%
    • Baseline 120% sprint for 45secs (Divine Steed benefits from Heart of the Crusader, so +20%)
    • Heroic Leap clone, eg when I want to get out of boss AE etc.
    Thanks for liking it, But to clarify one minuscule thing, the 20% from Heart of the Crusader does not stack with other movement speed, so it still be 100% the Divine Steed (Just one small detail, no worries bro) .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Okay; makes Righteous Vengeance make more sense now. That said, whether you should be "making up for lower iLevel gear" is something you should consider - after all, you're supposed to do less damage (and generate fewer resources) then .
    Sorry if I sound stupid, But I do not understand "do less damage and generate fewer resources". Can you clarify that part for me please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Hmm. So I can do:

    Judge > 5HP > TV > 3HP > TV > 1HP > CS > 2HP > TV

    Could be a bit potent at times, but that's a numbers thing.
    Yes indeed. People wanted a Juggernaut playstyle, here it is! .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Generally fine. I still wouldn't take Blinding Light though, because disorients are pretty weak as CC goes. Repentance... maybe, but I dislike the 1min CD on it.
    Making a 30sec CD would indeed making a bit more viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Nice ideas here, though numbers may need to be looked at. I should also note that Seal of the Crusader works quite different from the other two, and in a "burst CD" kind of way - something I'm always wary of with Ret, which has tended to have low sustained damage but nerf-inducing burst.
    Numbers can be tuned ofc to be in even pair with all the other seals or for balance overall.
    I did make the duration and the CD intentionally longer, So that it feels more "sustained" instead of a short burst window.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I think this kind of damage is preferable to the Divine Hammer / Consecration variety - ie instant damage.
    My idea around this AoE talent row is to choose between a Controlled based AoE Talent but deals less damage than a RNG AoE talent that deals allot more damage and you can choose which playstyle you prefer that is close to each other qua damage overall.

    I have removed the 100% damage increase because Judgment already deals the same damage as in Legion, that's why the 12sec CD + 'Art of War' proc, Could otherwise to be to strong compared to the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    If Divine Hammers can stack, this could be absurd with multiple mobs. Assuming 10 mobs, you have a 95% chance to reset the CD of Divine Hammers every tick. Intended?
    I did not think that through. Maybe making it a base 30-40% no matter how many mobs standing in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Not sure why I'd ever pick another talent, except for burst AE (Mass Judgement). Much more damage on single target fights, free cleave, and much more HP generated than baseline Crusader Strike.
    This was supposed to be the talent when not a single AoE damage is required. Removing the charge and the extra HoPo gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, it means 30sec SoV cooldowns with 3/3 Deflection (120secs * 0.5 -30secs), allowing for 50% uptime of SoV. On the other hand, it seems 1k AP really isn't that impressive as a defensive CD.
    My version of Deflection doesn't reduce the CD of SoV. Making it only 1min CD. I was thinking about increasing its effects but I was worried making it to strong compared to the rest of this talent row.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Not sure it's worth it if it's a bursty version of Spirit Link totem, rather than one that lasts several seconds. I'd reduce the CD if it's the bursty kind.
    It is the bursty version and sure we can reduce the CD but by how much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    There are only four stats you can improve in the first place (Crit, Mastery, Haste, Versatility), so that bit can probably just be dumped.
    I will edit this out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Bit scary TBH:

    Hammer of Justice > Avenging Wrath + Judge (5HP) > TV (3HP) > TV (1HP) > CS (2HP) > TV

    Assuming you keep the artefact traits the same, TV will deal 1,086.4% weapon damage as Holy, before Mastery: Hand of Light. With just the baseline amount, that increases it to 1,271.1% weapon damage as Holy. Then you have crits, Avenging Wrath, pots, trinket procs, and possibly the Retribution passive.

    So yeah, bit scary :P .
    My version of the artifact trait 'Might of the Templar' does not increase the damage of TV. Otherwise it was OVERKILL.
    (Rets deserves to be scary for ones ;P)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I assume "120% Holy damage" is "120% of Blade of Justice's damage as Holy damage". Also, given that you can get up to 30sec durations on Avenging Wrath via traits, the last part is odd. Perhaps "cannot extend Avenging Wrath for more than 10secs" would work better.
    120% BoJ Holy damage and I changed the trait 'Wrath of the Ashbringer' doesn't longer increase the duration of AW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Damage over time still?
    Does it do DoT in Legion beta? otherwise nope, just one huge burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Could be awkward when there's weak CC around.
    I liked that idea because it fits the Trait name allot. Maybe does not break on CC, dunno I want to keep it xD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    This is one I'd honestly change, given how pants-on-head bad it is ATM. Well, maybe the DPS component works out nicely, but it looks bad, and 15% is a bit of a joke.
    Buff it to 35%? + benefits Mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Again, another reason to pick Zeal all the time.
    I think it's safe to say that any trait from Legion Ashbringer does not apply anymore because I changed all of them in this build. Or do you mean because Zeal has a charge thing and can be used allot more than CS? If so, remove the charge so that the rest of that AoE talent row can compete with Zeal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Quite a powerful one, this. Again, not sure I like the emphasis on sustained AE (because it's so rarely required), but hey, free damage is free damage
    A greater trait deserve to be powerful but I was thinking to make it a 3sec duration instead of 4sec and decrease damage by 20% each second?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Nice little buff I guess; not sure I really like it as a concept, but w/e.
    The reason i add this is because of Final Verdict in WoD. I am so used to it by now of how much room it give us to hit targets from a distant that I just can't without it xD . Selfish, maybe :P .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    This negates part of my notes about Crusade (above), but note you've gone from a 3 rank trait to a 1 rank one. Intended, for such a potent ability?
    Yes, Intended. Just for balance reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Very nice, and it does reduce the burst in my Greater Judgement notes a bit, but only by a bit.
    Sorry if i sound stupid again but what do you mean by that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Not sure this is powerful enough to matter, really. If you get crit for 100k, that's at best 3k back to the enemy. Yawn.
    Increase the numbers enough to make it powerful but not that powerful so that in PvP situation no one wants to focus you. (Would be lovely tho :P .)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Does make Shield of Vengeance less OP given that above talent though... on the other hand it also means without that talent, SoV is quite lacklustre, having a 2min CD etc.
    I made SoV baseline 1min CD and remove the 50% CD reduction from the talent and instead increase its effects by 100%

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    No Hand spells, so I assume you mean Blessings and Greater Blessings. +6secs on BoP or BoF could be quite interesting...
    Yes indeed on Blessings like BoP and BoF and also the Hand of Hindrance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Is it wrong that I now worry about not killing those magic-immune trash mobs in Blackwing Lair when farming stuff :P ?

    Anyway, a nice idea. Auto-attacks are really being left behind in Legion, what with all these huge weapon damage modifiers being thrown around.
    It haves only a 5% chance xD . But yes indeed, white-attacks can have some purpose now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Pretty potent. Does this effect fizzle if there's no second ally (eg solo'ing stuff or 2v2s)?
    Woops I want it to make a 15% and 45% total. (Was still thinking of TV heal, Sorry about that) That would have been to much over the top.
    Does indeed not work when you are not in a party or raid.
    In 2v2 when you heal your partner, it will heal you 45% of the heal you have done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    To everyone or just to you? Because you don't want Ret-stacking to trivialise encounter mechanics etc. For example, suppose there's a caster mob that the tank has to handle for a whole minute. You have 3 Rets:
    T=00 = first BoP, extended to 16secs via Judgement
    T=16 = second BoP, extended as above
    T=32 = third BoP, also extended
    T=48 = tank & healer CDs for the next 12secs
    Only to yourself was my intention. Didn't not thought about that (sounds insane), Lucky only for yourself.


    Thank you again allot for your feedback and i hope i helped you to clarify some things.

    Greetings and much love, Baltimus(bruh).
    Last edited by mmoc4bd380d75b; 2016-06-02 at 07:21 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I want to thank you with all my heart because i'm so thankful that you left such wonderful feedback with such nice constructive and honest feedback. I see you put allot of time and thinking to leave some feedback behind and again I want to thank you allot for your time.

    I am so happy to read your feedback and I will do my best to explain wherever explanation is needed.
    You're welcome .

    = + =

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    My first intention was to make it a 3sec cd but I was worried because of haste reduce the cooldown and making it bit to overpowered? But if you think that 3sec is fine, fine for me to .
    Well, if you have BoJ and Judgement on a ~10sec CD each, then you get something like:

    T=0 = BoJ
    T=1.5 = Judge
    T=3 to T=10 = Only CS and TV/DS can fit in here

    What I you don't want is a situation whereby it's like this:

    T=0 = BoJ
    T=1.5 = Judge
    T=3 = CS
    T=4.5 = TV
    T=6 = ___
    T=7.5 = CS
    T=9 = ___
    T=10.5 = Start over

    2 free GCDs per 10secs is a lot of down time IMHO, and notice you only get one TV off in that time too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I was also worried to gain to fast HoPo because some of the talents affect our HoPo playstyle, But if you think this will not be this case. me case es cu casa . (Back to gaining 2 HoPo BoJ)
    The other option is to have an ability that isn't tied to the HP system as a filler. So when everything on cooldown, you cast Exorcism or Hammer of No HoPo Filler or whatever. Consecration, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I didn't think through this for PvP. (That's why I love some feedback and boy do I love yours.) Yes I think it's better to convert this back.
    Probably for the best, especially given the mobility Ret would have under your plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I should add that Divine Hammers deals damage equal to the total amount it does in that 8sec (Removing AE over time).
    That's actually more powerful than a baseline Divine Storm in that case (225% vs 250%). Divine Storm would normally get traits to buff it mind you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Ret AoE are clunky atm, We need to ramp up before hitting our strong AoE and at that time, adds could be dead already by other classes with better AoE and with that we put atleast some AoE damage before the adds die.
    It's not too bad if the adds are on a predictable timer, to be fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Should I add that it only generates 1 HoPo when 3 or more targets are hit to balance HoPo gain?
    Not sure. ATM you could use it as a filler in the above single target rotation and actually fill out the entire 10secs with Consecration too:

    T=0 = BoJ
    T=1.5 = Judge
    T=3 = CS
    T=4.5 = TV
    T=6 = Divine Hammers
    T=7.5 = CS
    T=9 = Consecration
    T=10.5 = Start over

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Wohohoo man, I'm not a mathematic genius like you are :O . I had no idea that it will become useless later ingame. My idea was just to add some crit value because of how low crit chance we have and to help out on the talent Fire of Justice.
    It's not a case of "useless" - after all, 10% more crit chance is still 10% more crit chance - but its value will go down. I mean, compare having 0%, 50% and 100% crit chance:

    At 0%, you would get (in principle :P ) the full benefit, because otherwise you never ever crit.
    At 50%, it's half as effective, because if half your attacks already crit, this buff is only useful for buffing the other half.
    At 100% it's useless, because you can't crit more than 100% of the time.

    It's a little more complicated than that with your model though, because you had it require critical strikes to stack in the first place - so in reality if you have less than say 20% crit chance it will probably be quite bad simply because it never stacks up to 9% in the first place .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    The knocking part on the path I find it personally way more interesting xD .
    It's a two-edged sword I think, because what you often don't want to do is scatter PvE mobs, or push people you've charged away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Sorry if I sound stupid, But I do not understand "do less damage and generate fewer resources". Can you clarify that part for me please?
    I just mean that as you get better gear you'll do more damage and, because of things like haste lowering the GCD and cooldown of your resource-generating abilities, generate more Holy Power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Yes indeed. People wanted a Juggernaut playstyle, here it is! .
    I think when people talk of Ret as a juggernaut they mean a slow-moving but nigh-unstoppable character. Think DPS levels of damage with tank levels of survivability, and really Legion mobility :P .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I have removed the 100% damage increase because Judgment already deals the same damage as in Legion, that's why the 12sec CD + 'Art of War' proc, Could otherwise to be to strong compared to the rest.
    Yeah maybe. In Legion it does 200% AP, vs 160% weapon damage for Crusader Strike, but remember with the Art of War proc that you want Judgement doing more damage else you get little benefit from the proc. It's a bit like how if Exorcism procs now you don't use it, because it's not powerful enough to justify casting it before other abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I did not think that through. Maybe making it a base 30-40% no matter how many mobs standing in it?
    Probably a good idea .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    This was supposed to be the talent when not a single AoE damage is required. Removing the charge and the extra HoPo gain.
    For most boss fights though, it's not AE damage you want so much as cleave damage (ie, only a few targets, not say 6+). That makes Zeal quite good so long as the tank is good and clumps everything up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    My version of Deflection doesn't reduce the CD of SoV. Making it only 1min CD. I was thinking about increasing its effects but I was worried making it to strong compared to the rest of this talent row.
    Yeah, I think it really boils down to how good SoV is. 10x AP sounds like a lot, but then again all the other numbers in Legion are so high...

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    It is the bursty version and sure we can reduce the CD but by how much?
    I'd drop it down to around a minute, I think. It can do good damage if you're low, but it'll never be able to blow people up from 20% to 0% like Equality can in Legion, simply because of how it works. In PvP you could use it to begin a burst attempt if you're low, or as a tool to turn the tables if you're getting trained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    My version of the artifact trait 'Might of the Templar' does not increase the damage of TV. Otherwise it was OVERKILL.
    (Rets deserves to be scary for ones ;P)
    Yeah I saw that after; still I think 10x weapon damage is probably a bit high if you can get 2-3 TVs off in a single Hammer of Justice stun .

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Does it do DoT in Legion beta? otherwise nope, just one huge burst.
    When you pick Ashes to Ashes, it does the initial burst and then a stronger DoT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Buff it to 35%? + benefits Mastery.
    TBH I think I'd just change it to something entirely different. Having baby Ashbringers dealing damage just looks weird :P . I mean, the simplest way would be to say "increases spender damage by 15%" or w/e, but you could also borrow from other classes etc for something more interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    I think it's safe to say that any trait from Legion Ashbringer does not apply anymore because I changed all of them in this build. Or do you mean because Zeal has a charge thing and can be used allot more than CS? If so, remove the charge so that the rest of that AoE talent row can compete with Zeal?
    Just the fact that I can use Zeal more than Crusader Strike: shorter cooldown and charges. Also, it might (?) be able to proc from Zeal's cleave damage (dunno).

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    A greater trait deserve to be powerful but I was thinking to make it a 3sec duration instead of 4sec and decrease damage by 20% each second?
    It was just a note about the mechanical aspect - like Consecration, I'm not a big fan of sustained AE, just because it's not proven terribly useful. I mean, it IS still free damage, but if I had a choice between free damage over time and free burst, I'll pick the burst option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    The reason i add this is because of Final Verdict in WoD. I am so used to it by now of how much room it give us to hit targets from a distant that I just can't without it xD . Selfish, maybe :P .
    No that's fine, I just think being able to melee people from +5 yards away is weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimus View Post
    Sorry if i sound stupid again but what do you mean by that?
    I just meant that it no longer gives up to +12% TV damage. I mean, it's still over 1,000% weapon damage .

    = + =

    That should do it I think .

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Thanks again for your fast reply .

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    That's actually more powerful than a baseline Divine Storm in that case (225% vs 250%). Divine Storm would normally get traits to buff it mind you.
    Made it 160% Physical damage same as CS but you prioritize this when there are 3 or more targets to hit to gain the 1 HoPo

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    It's a two-edged sword I think, because what you often don't want to do is scatter PvE mobs, or push people you've charged away.
    It really doesn't scatter, It just trow them to the ground without moving them from their position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Yeah maybe. In Legion it does 200% AP, vs 160% weapon damage for Crusader Strike, but remember with the Art of War proc that you want Judgement doing more damage else you get little benefit from the proc. It's a bit like how if Exorcism procs now you don't use it, because it's not powerful enough to justify casting it before other abilities.
    Maybe cause the proc to increase the damage of Judgment by amount of %?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    For most boss fights though, it's not AE damage you want so much as cleave damage (ie, only a few targets, not say 6+). That makes Zeal quite good so long as the tank is good and clumps everything up.
    Nerfed Zeal so it doesn't overshadow the other talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I'd drop it down to around a minute, I think. It can do good damage if you're low, but it'll never be able to blow people up from 20% to 0% like Equality can in Legion, simply because of how it works. In PvP you could use it to begin a burst attempt if you're low, or as a tool to turn the tables if you're getting trained.
    I find it my self that I really well balanced it that talent, making it not to strong and yet like you said it can turn tables around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Yeah I saw that after; still I think 10x weapon damage is probably a bit high if you can get 2-3 TVs off in a single Hammer of Justice stun .
    Numbers can be tuned ofc but the overall idea is a bit like Legion current Mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    TBH I think I'd just change it to something entirely different. Having baby Ashbringers dealing damage just looks weird :P . I mean, the simplest way would be to say "increases spender damage by 15%" or w/e, but you could also borrow from other classes etc for something more interesting.
    Can't really think about it fitting the name of that trait (Echo = repeat something). Trying to stick close to Blizzard "fantasy".

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    Just the fact that I can use Zeal more than Crusader Strike: shorter cooldown and charges. Also, it might (?) be able to proc from Zeal's cleave damage (dunno).
    As above, Nerfed Zeal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    It was just a note about the mechanical aspect - like Consecration, I'm not a big fan of sustained AE, just because it's not proven terribly useful. I mean, it IS still free damage, but if I had a choice between free damage over time and free burst, I'll pick the burst option.
    Made it kinda bursty now, It's like hitting DS 3 times in a row, But the next 2 swirls hit 35% less damage for balance issues ofc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    I just meant that it no longer gives up to +12% TV damage. I mean, it's still over 1,000% weapon damage .
    Numbers can be tuned down if it proves to much (PvP reasons).




    So what is your overall thoughts about it Teleros?

    I have adjusted some talents and spells from your constructive feedback (which helps me allot) to even balance it more.

    p.s How smooth is the rotation now, Does Judgement or BoJ or any other filler cooldown to be reduced or something to make the rotation smooth?



    Greetings, Baltimus(bruh).
    Last edited by mmoc4bd380d75b; 2016-06-02 at 09:49 AM.

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