Sorry for Another Gorefiend Mythic Help Topic

[Blackheart87]

Hi,
I'm the tank/Raid Lead Assistant of a casual raiding guild.
We have something like 100+ wipe on Gorefiend Mythic.
We see the feast sometime with 40% of raid alive.

In the last week we try a tactic similar to Method wowhead guide.
Middle blue mark for tank and first two dps,
Red mark near boss for all other dps.
Green mark away from boss for healer.

We have usually 1 arms warrior + 1 ranged (Hunter usually o Lock) to soul. Ranged for Healer and tank, arms warrior ( or melee like rogue / dk frost/ uh).

We always die from 1min 20 sec to 1min 40 secs. Sometime someone arrive to 1min.55sec /2min.00secs but i think it's luck, nothing else.
Inside Shadowy Constructs start to leave the stomach after 1min.. 1/2 Essence always leave the stomach if one, she had 50%+ life.
We don't have a fixed raid composition yesterday we have 3 melee, other day 5 melee, sometime we try this boss in 19 ( the worst thing is that nothing has changed ).
We tried to not aoe, to aoe, we tried with 2 on soul and 2 backup. We tried without suicide the soul killers. We tried to suicide them nothings seems to really change..
We tried to change soul killer, we tried to let ppl focus at start on boss, we ask to use / not use some trinket / spell
I do not expect a miracle but at least an improvement , where or what can we improve?

This is our last guild try from warcraftlogs:
/reports/GJ8dwmNB41vcVWM9
/reports/pbnKBTGCaxD6Jcvk
/reports/WCTnfwMkHaZDbGhY#fight=36
/reports/GfP8wQJvRAXbNdrY
/reports/X3N7adjqWbYkxtfh

Even if i have been registered from years, i never posted before, so i can't post link, sorry
Thanks for watching :P
And Thanks for help, if you can

[Deleted]

I can't look at logs right now but I'll give you my 2 cents:
The most important aspects of this fight are, obviously, add control and souls management.
The first is as straightforward as it gets: if something moves you should hard swap and kill it, boss dps is only relevant during feast of souls.

Soul management is tricky and it's undoubtedly the hardest point to master, usually a couple of players (ideally a dot class and an execute class, unholy dk + arms warrior are the most popular combo) are in charge of it, plus a backup for when the melee have to move out to place a doom well. Some tips:

- Aim for breaking people out when there is between 10 and 5 seconds left on the cast, to maximise efficiency inside which in turn translates to less adds to deal with on the outside.
- No AoE from other players, at all. Passive cleave such as starfall is fine but absolutely ban chimera shot and the likes.
- When in the stomach prioritise dpsing 2 adds down to 50% rather than killing one.
- You mentioned essences getting out at high HP, this can be due to a healer being freed too soon or possibly suboptimal composition (absorb healers will struggle while, for instance, a good shaman can pretty much solo a stomach round).
- Don't set the stacking point for souls too close to melee, it will be near impossible to control cleave on them. You only really need 1 marker but you can use 2 if it suits you better.
- I've been on souls duty for pretty much every kill and I (along with my partner) always suicided on pull. To make it faster I unequip and reequip my gear during the pulltimer in order to start with very low health. It is very important to die before the 1st set of dps are sent in.
- If you're not absolutely sure you can avoid hitting souls with the ring, don't bother using it on pull.

Other than that it's up to the individual players to minimize mistakes and actually dealing with the other mechanics, this is a very punishing fight and things will quickly spiral out of control once 2 or 3 players die, thus getting sent in the stomach, to mechanics. It's probably a good idea to assign a ranged to deal with souls from players that die to mistakes.
It's extremely important for ranged players to spread out to deal with the splash damage, melee players are not affected by this spell; it is safe for them to stack together.

Once you manage to get to the first feast with everyone alive, you're very close to a kill.

[Jingizu]

Without going into the logs too indepth, a couple of things immediately stand out to me:

Splash damage on Corrupted Souls is a huge problem. These things need to be killed ONLY when there's 5 to 10 seconds left on their Digest. Break them out too early, and you will be overwhelmed by adds coming out. Your plan with "2 on soul 2 on backup" is an excellent strategy - but not if the half the raid is doing AoE/splash damage to the souls. Problematic spells: Howling Blast (Frost DK) - Ice lance (Frost mage) - Chimaera Shot (Hunter). These things have a tendency to do WAY too much damage to Corrupted Souls unintentionally.

Solution:
- Put Unholy (!!!) DK on Necrotic Plague duty for the souls. Give a warrior the job to execute low-health souls when the Digest timer is running out. Have a back-up for when the warrior needs to run out with Doomwell. If you feel that the DK is not doing enough damage by himself, add another Unholy DK for Necrotic Plague (or the Boomkin can assist).

- Nobody else is allowed to touch the Corrupted Souls. Their damage needs to be on all the other adds. Boss is very low priority UNTIL the Feast of Souls, then you pop all the CDs and burn very hard. Hunters need to watch out with their Chimaera Shots - those things can splash onto a Soul and mess up a lot of stuff.

As with the other thread about Gorefiend: You can come up with a ton of tactics, but if your raiders don't listen, you will not kill this boss. It's imperative that you find out WHO did damage to Corrupted Souls after each wipe, and find out if some jokers are tunnelling the boss.

EDIT: The guy above me posted while I was writing, but I agree fully with what he said

[Deleted]

In general your raid dps seems low maybe that's why adds are not dying fast enough. Other than that I find the method tactic more complicated than just stacking them all up in one place in front of the boss. Be careful with aoe of course.

[PosPosPos]

Hi,
I'm the tank/Raid Lead Assistant of a casual raiding guild.
We have something like 100+ wipe on Gorefiend Mythic.
We see the feast sometime with 40% of raid alive.

In the last week we try a tactic similar to Method wowhead guide.
Middle blue mark for tank and first two dps,
Red mark near boss for all other dps.
Green mark away from boss for healer.

We have usually 1 arms warrior + 1 ranged (Hunter usually o Lock) to soul. Ranged for Healer and tank, arms warrior ( or melee like rogue / dk frost/ uh).

We always die from 1min 20 sec to 1min 40 secs. Sometime someone arrive to 1min.55sec /2min.00secs but i think it's luck, nothing else.
Inside Shadowy Constructs start to leave the stomach after 1min.. 1/2 Essence always leave the stomach if one, she had 50%+ life.
We don't have a fixed raid composition yesterday we have 3 melee, other day 5 melee, sometime we try this boss in 19 ( the worst thing is that nothing has changed ).
We tried to not aoe, to aoe, we tried with 2 on soul and 2 backup. We tried without suicide the soul killers. We tried to suicide them nothings seems to really change..
We tried to change soul killer, we tried to let ppl focus at start on boss, we ask to use / not use some trinket / spell
I do not expect a miracle but at least an improvement , where or what can we improve?

This is our last guild try from warcraftlogs:
/reports/GJ8dwmNB41vcVWM9
/reports/pbnKBTGCaxD6Jcvk
/reports/WCTnfwMkHaZDbGhY#fight=36
/reports/GfP8wQJvRAXbNdrY
/reports/X3N7adjqWbYkxtfh

Even if i have been registered from years, i never posted before, so i can't post link, sorry
Thanks for watching :P
And Thanks for help, if you can

Not sure why you are just following the method strat blindly, it's so outdated and every guild just runs the single soul stack strat now. Your raid is getting digested all the time, so having more stack points is just compounding the problem.

People are getting melee swings from the boss, so it means your tanks are not taunting or running away from melee range for some non-reason, one tank should always be standing in the boss hitbox.

[Summer]

So ok. Looking at your last logs and what people were getting hit by, here's the people getting hit by the skeletons you're meant to kite:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=180146

Your shaman and mages need to shape up as this is with a cutoff of 3 dead and your shammy took damage from a skeleton 10 times in 19 attempts so basically every other try...?!

Then some of your dps aren't touching the adds after they come out almost at all.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ff=3&target=45

Your shammy sticks out again, ele is bad for it but not that bad, then again maybe he was just dead all the time after getting hit by them. But your boomie, the two frost mages (why frost?) are also pretty bad and the hunters should really be on top.

Essence is much the same

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ff=3&target=44

I'd love to know how it is that you have two *melee* in top three for this short lived prio add that spawns in random locations

In summary your rdps need to stop being terrible and focus the adds over anything else or you will never kill this.

As for your healers, if the essences come out at 50 % all the time one of two things is happening: either your healers are broken out way too quickly, or they don't know what they're doing. Tell them to use in cd's they need to while they're down including the ring because I doubt you'll die to lack of heals during Feast, however nothing wipes a Gorefiend try like high HP Essences slowing everyone while chain casting their AoE.

At the end of they day it will come down to breaking souls out correctly though and that's not something I find easy to read on logs so can't help much. But after each wipe check who got broken out too early and then look at skada who damaged them, then tell them off in no uncertain way. If people died to digest which seems to happen a lot check with the people responsible for breaking them why it happened. If they had Doomwell or whatever did they ask for help? Do you have backup people ready to step in when needed?

Gorefiend is possibly the only boss in HFC that didn't get nerfed to oblivion with the ring :P You still have to do the basic mechanics right.

[Blackheart87]

Thanks all for the advice.
We'll try next week with one stack point. Is it better near boss or away from it?
Regarding people taken melee swing from the boss is sometime a my bad ( or a my death ) cause we are trying to good positioning the Spirit, so he don't cleave the melee or other tanks too my bad.
I'll ask my rdps to better focus on prio ( that always i say in raid was Essence > Construct > Spirit ) , i didn't notice that our rdps didn't focus on right things

[Kikazz]

Thanks all for the advice.
We'll try next week with one stack point. Is it better near boss or away from it?
Regarding people taken melee swing from the boss is sometime a my bad ( or a my death ) cause we are trying to good positioning the Spirit, so he don't cleave the melee or other tanks too my bad.
I'll ask my rdps to better focus on prio ( that always i say in raid was Essence > Construct > Spirit ) , i didn't notice that our rdps didn't focus on right things

we had an unholy dk solo the souls with necro, we had all spirits bar tanks stack with the group and the tanks went in at tank stack point.

we had 2 boomkins with Seed of corruption, so that maybe helped.

we had 2 melee go in and sacrifice at the start, so as to have a dedicated melee on them, and one as backup if need be.

while dps were inside there main focus was the constructs to 50%, not dead with some getting through at 100%, this will cause issues with usain Bolts running around.

dps knock adds inside to 50% and move to the next dots/aoe cleave will knock them down further while they mow another target.

when healers go in get them to 75% essences, and move to the next, if there a hot class get them to 65% an essence and move to the next, the remaining 25-305 can easily be mowed down by range cleave.

hunters are good on this fight with Ice trap in the center for people to kite contructs through.

but from what i can see people are preferring to just tunnel the boss thinking that the faster they kill it the less they have to deal with.

Gorefiend - Mythic, requires you to ignore the boss more or less outside of feast unless there are no adds.

while there are adds up no one besides tanks should be hitting the boss, and even then they should be hitting the tank add.

have the Melee dps focus the tank add, call for range if backup is needed. melee can also hit constructs if needed, as long as they arent focused.

___________________________________________

Like my drawing sorry for my grade 3 paint skillz.

http://imgur.com/dumwAOo


spread out and tank soul drops to group stack where the melee will be, tanks drop theres at tank.

ice traps are for people kiting there usians over.

[Deleted]

Thanks all for the advice.
We'll try next week with one stack point. Is it better near boss or away from it?

Basically make it as simple as possible. One stack point in the middle in front near the boss, one point where the tank goes, one point where the guy that helps the tank or does the ghosts goes so others know when not to kill them or when to kill them etc. Method is notorious in my mind for making extremely complex strategies that seem easy to avoid "stepping into the fire" with so to speak, but at the end of the day they are much harder to learn. Averagely skilled guilds are better off with much simpler strategies. I prefer Paragon's methodology which seemed to be more reliant on people not stepping into fire (they liked stacking a lot and moving as a whole group in most fights) but it's much easier to learn those strategies.

Other than that the fight does not need a complex strategy, but good execution by individual players.

I was surprised how little the fight needs in terms of raid warnings, it's mainly about personal skill.

[Rhoe]

I very much disagree with a stack point close to the boss when the raid team has already proven that it's awful at avoiding cleaving the souls. Put the stack point well out of cleave range so you won't have people being popped out by mistake.

What I'd change: Tell hunters to stop using the mirror trinket and barrage (glaive toss is good for slowing, powershot works fine for knocking back adds in stomach). Tell the elemental shaman to stop using doom nova trinket (why is he even using that in the first place? I thought every ele in existence used the Iskar + class trinket). Tell the rogue to stop exploding his trinket on souls, especially fresh souls. And if he's unable to stop doing that, don't allow him to use it.

I wouldn't use a hunter as primary backup on souls. Chimaera shot should never be used on souls unless there's one standing alone somewhere, and mm does damage mostly with big hits which makes it hard to get souls down to a good level to sit at until it's time to execute them without risking killing them off waaaaay too early.

Do you have the soul people + a few backups using the gorefiend module from exorsus raid tools or similar? (Shows a list of the souls with amount of time and hp left, making it easy to target souls that need to be killed asap.)

One of your mages have 4 empty sockets in his gear. I don't know if it's worth trying to kill Gorefiend with people who care that little.

[Deleted]

Put the stack point well out of cleave range

I believe the mechanics that cleave off the boss do not hit souls relatively near him. Prophecy of Fear for instance doesn't hit any souls while they are well inside his hitbox apparently. Of course, they might be hit by regular AOE spells that don't radiate from the boss but are proximity based.

In general I think many of the AOE mistakes are done by cleaving off the adds or cleaving on the adds, not from the boss.

[Riistov]

(why is he even using that in the first place? I thought every ele in existence used the Iskar + class trinket).

yes, you are absolutely correct. We generally swap out the Iskar one for the BoA trinket on Demon fights, but that's not relevant to the thread

[Djriff]

Another spot you can use is directly behind the raid group, basically near the back edge. This does take away one spot for touch of dooms, but completely neutralizes any type of cleave from the boss. You can then assign a shadow priest or another RDPS to be on spirit duty while the rest of the raid can wear their best trinkets and use all their skills without having to worry about gimping their DPS.

[Zulandia]

I believe the mechanics that cleave off the boss do not hit souls relatively near him. Prophecy of Fear for instance doesn't hit any souls while they are well inside his hitbox apparently. Of course, they might be hit by regular AOE spells that don't radiate from the boss but are proximity based.

In general I think many of the AOE mistakes are done by cleaving off the adds or cleaving on the adds, not from the boss.

No PoF procced on boss will hit anything up to about 10Y from the edge of the pool. Large cleaves such as splitting ice/chimera shot will also split with any melee based soul locations.

[Bullarkie]

No PoF procced on boss will hit anything up to about 10Y from the edge of the pool. Large cleaves such as splitting ice/chimera shot will also split with any melee based soul locations.

Mage here. Using PoF for this fight isn't worth the headache. I strongly suggest forcing everyone to remove it.

[PosPosPos]

Mage here. Using PoF for this fight isn't worth the headache. I strongly suggest forcing everyone to remove it.

Assuming there's even a need for it, because you should just place the stack point a bit more than 10y away from boss like you are supposed to.

[xcess]

Yeah send extra ppl down if you have to and make less constructs come out. Less adds outside means ppl can do mechanics properly. Essence needs to die quick cos been slow will make you fail mechanics and snowball from there .

[Deleted]

Mage here. Using PoF for this fight isn't worth the headache. I strongly suggest forcing everyone to remove it.

Oh yeah definitely. It's not even the best single target trinket necessarily. Contrary to popular belief council's trinket can in some settings be extremely strong, on mythic warforged at least and single target.