1. #1

    So Paladin tanking, is it a rewarding challenge or just an easy necessity?

    So. If one wished to start playing WoW, despite being a terrible idea in the first place, would tanking be something fun one can master or is it so easy that it's just a raid necessity in Legion?

    I mean, I want to play WoW before it really dies down and goes the way of Everquest. I would love to be a paladin tank because, to me, that's what a Paladin should be. Ret is fan fluff, Holy is just an armored priest, Prot is what a Paladin IS. The point of this thread is me asking for your personal experience in Warlords of Draenor and your impressions of Legion Prot Paladins.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    I'd involve myself in this, but apparently I only have an interest in fan fluff priest wannabes. I don't think I'd bring anything constructive to the conversation.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Oh man you're really kicking the hornets nest for this one.

    Prot in WoD is currently in a very good spot. Engaging gameplay with the appropriate bonuses and trinkets, stemming mainly from an ever-fluctuating priority rotation that changes based on procs coupled with the ability to make split-second decisions based on the fight and your own resources.

    Legion removes all this and turns you into a resourceless tank that plays like a DPS class with a button that is just "lol I can take more damage now I guess". The first iteration of the class was god awful. It's certainly been improved, but it strips away what it feels like to be a Paladin tank - self heals, being a 'righteous defender' throwing out your massive shield, waiting for those juicy moments where you proc back-to-back-to-back GC off your AS into a class that just presses the same 3 buttons in a row, with one of them reducing the cooldown of your AM by 2secs each time (or 4 if you crit, because woo excitement). The class has lost a lot of what made it unique and engaging, and has devolved into mindless faceroll with no real choices to be made.

    I've mained Prot Pala since BC - stopping only briefly in BRF to heal - and this is the first time I'm planning on shelving my paladin because there depth just isn't there so I don't enjoy it (unless it's OP, of course). However, as mentioned before, it has seen improvements: Just recently they gave us back Seraphim which definitely (re)adds a layer of depth to how you play the class. Very few of the old hand Prot's over here on MMO-C enjoy it - in fact, of all the tanks I know who are serious about their progression absolutely abhor how the class plays in Legion.

    Regarding is it a good idea to start tanking as a role - if they're studious and can pay attention then it's fairly simple to do at a basic level. Press X & Y Abilities for resources, Press Z to take less damage. Y is your AoE/Pack Pull ability. Tanking has never really been particularly difficult - people just don't like the added pressure that comes with it.
    Last edited by mmoc3982adc87f; 2016-06-06 at 12:18 AM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Veilyn pretty much summed it up.

    But - what I want to add here is just the fact, that you aren't a veteran like us jaded ... people (and I am most certainly one of them). From what I have heard from friends is, that Prot is actually quite fun to play if you are new to the whole tanking gig (in Legion).

    So while you missed the best time as a higher level prot - you will be able to fill in your role as the protector of your group just fine.

    When you feel the need to move on to another, more challenging class - we will be here for you.

    Good luck out there!

  5. #5
    Deleted
    Certainly don't be put off by what I said - I'm just a disgruntled protadin that wishes they made T18 baseline (pls Blizzard)

    My preferences are not your preferences. I dislike prot pala for Legion, but you might pick it up and love it. My friend hates Warlock in Legion whereas I really enjoy 2/3 specs for it - different strokes for different folks.

    Only way you'll ever know what's what is if you go and get stuck in.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Veilyn View Post
    Certainly don't be put off by what I said - I'm just a disgruntled protadin that wishes they made T18 baseline (pls Blizzard)
    I feel your pain, brother.

    But as I said - we are a bit jaded. It will take quite a while for him/her to get to that point. Figuring out how to tank in dungeons and after that raids - I think he/she will have his/her share of fun.

    Not to mention we are still the bling bling shiny tanking class. Nobody can take that away!!

  7. #7
    I've been a Paladin since Vanilla and tanking (mostly) since BC... and thats back when I loved tanking. I feel like its gotten stale since then.

    I haven't been paying much attention to Legion stuff because I don't want "spoilers."... can someone go over what Pally tanking is like in Legion? What exactly have we lost?

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I've been a Paladin since Vanilla and tanking (mostly) since BC... and thats back when I loved tanking. I feel like its gotten stale since then.

    I haven't been paying much attention to Legion stuff because I don't want "spoilers."... can someone go over what Pally tanking is like in Legion? What exactly have we lost?
    This is off the top of my head, so I've likely missed something -

    • CS & HoTR merged
    • Execute Gone
    • Removed Divine Protection
    • Grand Crusader only resets CD of AS
    • AS is now 3 targets again
    • All self healing (and with it Bastion of Glory) removed, replaced with some shitty % of missing health missing and 2 talents that aim to heal the raid/party more, not us.
    • Holy Power removed, now we're resourceless (charges of SoTR is not a resource)
    • Can't place consecration nor have it move with us.
    • Clemency & Hand of Purity completely removed
    • Single Target AS moved into a talent
    • Holy Wrath removed
    • Seals removed
    • All major glyphs removed (E.G Double Judge, AD, DP, Consecrator etc)
    Last edited by mmoc3982adc87f; 2016-06-06 at 01:44 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Veilyn View Post
    This is off the top of my head, so I've likely missed something -

    • CS & HoTR merged
      Execute Gone
      Removed Divine Protection
      Grand Crusader only resets CD of AS
      AS is now 3 targets again
      All self healing (and with it Bastion of Glory) removed, replaced with some shitty % of missing health missing and 2 talents that aim to heal the raid/party more, not us.
      Holy Power removed, now we're resourceless (charges of SoTR is not a resource)
      Can't place consecration nor have it move with us.
      Clemency & Hand of Purity completely removed
      Single Target AS moved into a talent
      Holy Wrath removed
      Seals removed
      All major glyphs removed (E.G Double Judge, AD, DP, Consecrator etc)
    Holy shit, some of these changes are "meh" and many of them fall into the nonsensical and WTF categories.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Melsiren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veilyn View Post
    This is off the top of my head, so I've likely missed something -

    • CS & HoTR merged
    • Execute Gone
    • Removed Divine Protection
    • Grand Crusader only resets CD of AS
    • AS is now 3 targets again
    • All self healing (and with it Bastion of Glory) removed, replaced with some shitty % of missing health missing and 2 talents that aim to heal the raid/party more, not us.
    • Holy Power removed, now we're resourceless (charges of SoTR is not a resource)
    • Can't place consecration nor have it move with us.
    • Clemency & Hand of Purity completely removed
    • Single Target AS moved into a talent
    • Holy Wrath removed
    • Seals removed
    • All major glyphs removed (E.G Double Judge, AD, DP, Consecrator etc)


    You missed the pruning of Fun.

    I seriously hope I enjoy Vengeance DH, I'm beyond done with Prot Paladin.

    #WaitingforthatBetakey

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Holy shit, some of these changes are "meh" and many of them fall into the nonsensical and WTF categories.
    Pretty much.... :/ Many long time Prot Paladins are giving up on the class/spec.
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    I AM the victim.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melsiren View Post
    You missed the pruning of Fun.

    I seriously hope I enjoy Vengeance DH, I'm beyond done with Prot Paladin.
    I'm really enjoying my Vengeance DH - the recent changes they made have really made it more enjoyable for me. I do like my proactive/pooling abilities.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veilyn View Post
    This is off the top of my head, so I've likely missed something -

    • CS & HoTR merged
    • Execute Gone
    • Removed Divine Protection
    • Grand Crusader only resets CD of AS
    • AS is now 3 targets again
    • All self healing (and with it Bastion of Glory) removed, replaced with some shitty % of missing health missing and 2 talents that aim to heal the raid/party more, not us.
    • Holy Power removed, now we're resourceless (charges of SoTR is not a resource)
    • Can't place consecration nor have it move with us.
    • Clemency & Hand of Purity completely removed
    • Single Target AS moved into a talent
    • Holy Wrath removed
    • Seals removed
    • All major glyphs removed (E.G Double Judge, AD, DP, Consecrator etc)
    And people are complaining about this? Seems like wonderful changes to me!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just watched this video. Yeah, this looks incredible!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdQDZ-n4EMw
    Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    The main difficulty in being a tank so far has been the % of raid attendance (if u in a serious semi hardcore guild u really should have a close to 100% attendance to raids and value the most probable raid/progression cancels that gonna follow your absence). Second to that comes the fact that if u were an average+ player in legion then there would be absolutely no way u would fail mechanics as a tank after a couple of wipe fest nights and u would have to bare with the rest of the raid trying to adopt to a fight and trying to fix the balance between aoe/single target dps, combo and tact issues etc , things that would kinda be incomprehensible and weird to u (wtf are these nablets trying to fix all these weeks huh?). Third comes the fact that on farm nights u dont have logs to rely on to keep u sane ( y am talkin about killing the same boss like 20 times in a row while having no apparent aim in your gameplay). Forth is the fact that most of the times u are either lickin a bosses' ballz or running around like a headless chicken trying to taunt adds while on the same time payin attention to important timers having zero chances to watch the magic of the game graphs and design.
    If u can go past all these then tanking may be your stuff.
    Prot been quite fun during legion since i guess on the one hand we had haste as one of the main sec stats making spells coming of cd fast having always something to press and on the other hand the last tier bonus we got been absolutelly amazing, fun and well designed. Last tier talents as well offered so many options of engaging gameplay apart from surviving abilities that were a neat option to rotate.
    Prot paly being a tank has actually never been a main lore/ class concept thing imo. Holy and ret got more figures to offer than prot (correct me if am mistaken but had to reach Bolvar in lk expansion to watch some prot pally icon in a clip).
    In former expansions tank had to grasp a bosses' attention while the rest of the dpsers been raping it and on the same time trying to survive the attacks. Now they only got to survive the attacks made ... well that has kinda limited the capability shown by both the tanks and the dpsers of being effective in their jobs and although both tanks and dpsers alike kinda approved of it, one can only say that this has served only in lowering the skillz needed by a player to participate in high end fast paced progression guilds.
    on a sidenote : WoW cannot have the same fate as everquest since the latter never reached the same hights. U cannot compare these 2 games in any possible ways apart from being pixelized programmes and on some point in the future they will have their servers shut down.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    And people are complaining about this? Seems like wonderful changes to me!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just watched this video. Yeah, this looks incredible!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdQDZ-n4EMw
    What? HOW?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    And people are complaining about this? Seems like wonderful changes to me!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just watched this video. Yeah, this looks incredible!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdQDZ-n4EMw
    baiting too hard

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    What? HOW?
    I'm a huge fan of getting rid of the button bloat. Seems like wonderful changes to me.
    Will definitely be playing protection when Legion hits. I haven't mained a prot paladin since Cataclysm. Time to get back to it.
    Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    I'm a huge fan of getting rid of the button bloat. Seems like wonderful changes to me.
    Will definitely be playing protection when Legion hits. I haven't mained a prot paladin since Cataclysm. Time to get back to it.
    Uh huh. Got to play on beta. I'm sad now.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragethorn View Post
    I'm a huge fan of getting rid of the button bloat. Seems like wonderful changes to me.
    Will definitely be playing protection when Legion hits. I haven't mained a prot paladin since Cataclysm. Time to get back to it.
    I'm down for removing button bloat too - I've always felt that a lot of the classes had a lot of unnecessary buttons. The issue with the class, in my opinion, is that they removed a little too much but most importantly that the changes to the playstyle just aren't enjoyable.

    The class is flawed as a playstyle, not as a list of abilities.

  19. #19
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    I had a quick look on the beta and it really feels bland ... it looks great, they added really cool talents, like this cone, where you shield your allies behind you. But the play style feels slower than ever before. (I tested w/o seraphim and in 110 pvp gear) there is huge downtime between skills to press and only 2 that are meaningfull. Hope they give it another pass, since I really don't know what to main this addon.

  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    I just started playing my old paladin on live (1st time since Cataclysm circa 2012) and I'm loving it.

    I won't be able to speak to Legion until it comes out. Guess I better enjoy it while I can, just in case.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

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