Cost-Benefit Analysis of Stadiums

[THE Bigzoman]

Here's an introductory video. It's admitingly one sided and out of character to cite this hack, it's just that the promotional studies justifying the shit is worse. Cincinnati Ohio had to sell a public hospital to fund Paul Brown Stadium: a project that happened 10 years ago and looks like a Soviet Bunker in comparison to the new stadium Atlanta is building right now.


But I was hoping that someone whose looked around the bushes in the actual economic studies could point me in the right direction. Has an economist actually done a cost-benefit analysis in financing a stadium, even a hypothetical one? In other words, has an economist actually inquired about whether or not financing a stadium for a sports team was a bad idea on efficiency grounds? My final verdict on the subject pretty much hinges on it.

But apart from that, what's your take on the matter?

[Madeupname999]

I live in Arizona and boy did we get stiffed on that whole Coyotes deal!

[Kapadons]

Bill Simmons, formerly of ESPN and now with HBO, states on his podcast fairly frequently that stadiums don't even come close to even covering the cost economically let alone bringing money in. He always references some study done. But I can't recall which one it was.

[Kellhound]

No stadium for any private sports team should receive so much as a penny from the government.....

[Underverse]

Such a massive waste of money. It makes me sick.

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You could fund so much research with that money.

[THE Bigzoman]

[QUOTE=Quetzl;40799917]Such a massive waste of money. It makes me sick.

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Do municipal governments invest in research?

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Bill Simmons, formerly of ESPN and now with HBO, states on his podcast fairly frequently that stadiums don't even come close to even covering the cost economically let alone bringing money in. He always references some study done. But I can't recall which one it was.

Yeah, I always found the "benefits" that proponents spout misleading.

"It'll create jobs!"

Seasonal jobs that probably don't pay well.

"It'll stimulate the economy"

Who will stimulate it, the players who don't even live in the city?

[nonameelf]

Stadiums shouldn't receive money from the government. Sports teams are private businesses.

I still find it really dumb that Sacramento approved a stadium for the shittest basketball team. What a fucking waste.

[Underverse]

Such a massive waste of money. It makes me sick.

Do municipal governments invest in research?

Nah not that I know of, but I could be wrong. Either way, there would be avenues for that money to find its way to research. It's still a disgusting waste.

[Crissi]

Heh, we're going through that right now with our baseball stadium. Arlington voted to replace it so the Rangers would stay instead of move to Dallas. The reason for it was so it could get some kind of dome to make it climate controlled.

Then the actual designer of the original stadium chimes in and says he could have done it if asked and given time. noooo, has to be a new stadium. This likely wontcover the cost benefit, because baseball in a football / basketball state.

However, ATT stadium for Dallas Cowboys has been a boon, if only because JJ has actually managed to keep it busy virtually year round. State championships, soccer games, Wrestlemania ,NCAA football use for major games are all in addition to its normal pro football. The fact its also in a heavy tourist area (Ranger ballpark, Hurricane Harbor and Six Flags) helps.

I think the key to having a good cost benefit is having a business owner who is actually damn good at marketing the stadium for things other than the sport it houses.

[THE Bigzoman]

Nah not that I know of, but I could be wrong. Either way, there would be avenues for that money to find its way to research. It's still a disgusting waste.

See, that's what i'm trying to figure out. But I can't find a single public policy economist that has done a cost-benefit analysis of it.

A cost-benefit analysis would take into account the revenues and costs it takes in PLUS the value of the output produced by the stadium net the value of what else could've been done with the same amount of resources if a government doesn't go through with it(opportunity cost).

I'm pretty pissed that I can't find any economic cost-benefit studies of this. It's a public policy expenditure. An economist should've been on this by now.

[Crissi]

See, that's what i'm trying to figure out. But I can't find a single public policy economist that has done a cost-benefit analysis of it.

A cost-benefit analysis would take into account the revenues and costs it takes in PLUS the value of the output produced by the stadium net the value of what else could've been done with the same resources (opportunity cost).

I'm pretty pissed that I can't find any economic cost-benefit studies of this. It's a public policy expenditure. An economist should've been on this by now.

You know thats something the NFL / MLB / NBA would qualsh in a heartbeat. Well, the NFL anyways, cause Goodell gonna Goodell and look out for his own pockets first

[Kapadons]

Heh, we're going through that right now with our baseball stadium. Arlington voted to replace it so the Rangers would stay instead of move to Dallas. The reason for it was so it could get some kind of dome to make it climate controlled.

Then the actual designer of the original stadium chimes in and says he could have done it if asked and given time. noooo, has to be a new stadium. This likely wontcover the cost benefit, because baseball in a football / basketball state.

However, ATT stadium for Dallas Cowboys has been a boon, if only because JJ has actually managed to keep it busy virtually year round. State championships, soccer games, Wrestlemania ,NCAA football use for major games are all in addition to its normal pro football. The fact its also in a heavy tourist area (Ranger ballpark, Hurricane Harbor and Six Flags) helps.

I think the key to having a good cost benefit is having a business owner who is actually damn good at marketing the stadium for things other than the sport it houses.

You forgot to mention all George strait concerts.

Miss living by DFW. In May, used to be able to go to six flags from 10-6 and then catch a ranger night game from 7 to whenever for like $30.

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See, that's what i'm trying to figure out. But I can't find a single public policy economist that has done a cost-benefit analysis of it.

A cost-benefit analysis would take into account the revenues and costs it takes in PLUS the value of the output produced by the stadium net the value of what else could've been done with the same amount of resources if a government doesn't go through with it(opportunity cost).

I'm pretty pissed that I can't find any economic cost-benefit studies of this. It's a public policy expenditure. An economist should've been on this by now.

I think it would be hard to do one except on each individual basis. Like Crissi said, Jerry world has tons of things going on every year and even hosted the super bowl a few years back ( incidentally it snowed like mad for the first time in years). So Jerry world probably does add some economic value. There was a study done on the Chargers stadium in San Diego and it was stated for like the whole year they only had like 25-30 events. 8 football games and some concerts and conferences. So a stadium like that wouldn't add nearly the same value.

I think municipalities do it for bragging rights ( we have a sports team) and for entertainment. I saw some article a while back that tried to correlate cities that brought in a sports team or stadium had a drop in certain types of crimes, basically people had something to do. But to be honest it could have just been some trash article I was reading. And that obviously doesn't apply to a place that already had a team/stadium and just wants a new one.

[Budong]

You should ask fans of the Seattle Supersonics how much a stadium or arena is worth. They'll tell you it was the greedy owners from Oklahoma that lied and stole their team, but it was really their previous owner and their own people who lost that team.

[nonameelf]

You should ask fans of the Seattle Supersonics how much a stadium or arena is worth. They'll tell you it was the greedy owners from Oklahoma that lied and stole their team, but it was really their previous owner and their own people who lost that team.

Yes, teams use threats to exploit cities into building stadiums. The Sacramento Kings did it too. And for some reason the city fought hard to keep them even though they're shit.

[Kapadons]

Here is a study for the new mls stadiumy in DC. Seems they project to make money over the long haul.

http://dccouncil.us/files/user_uploa...ion_110514.pdf

[THE Bigzoman]

Heh, we're going through that right now with our baseball stadium. Arlington voted to replace it so the Rangers would stay instead of move to Dallas. The reason for it was so it could get some kind of dome to make it climate controlled.

Then the actual designer of the original stadium chimes in and says he could have done it if asked and given time. noooo, has to be a new stadium. This likely wontcover the cost benefit, because baseball in a football / basketball state.

However, ATT stadium for Dallas Cowboys has been a boon, if only because JJ has actually managed to keep it busy virtually year round. State championships, soccer games, Wrestlemania ,NCAA football use for major games are all in addition to its normal pro football. The fact its also in a heavy tourist area (Ranger ballpark, Hurricane Harbor and Six Flags) helps.

I think the key to having a good cost benefit is having a business owner who is actually damn good at marketing the stadium for things other than the sport it houses.

You think JJ is bad? Look at Mike Brown

No, seriously, he fucked over the city of Cincinatti. It's a huge part of the reason nobody likes him (that, and him being responisible for dragging a former super bowl contender to the 80s into the shitter/being nothing compared to his legend farther.)


http://www.businessinsider.com/worst...cinnati-2011-7

Back in the mid-'90s, the Cincinnati Bengals threatened to leave town unless they got a new football-only stadium.

So Hamilton (where Cincy is the county seat) caved. They agreed to build Paul Brown Stadium and to finance almost entire thing.

The Journal claims it was the most lopsided of any NFL public stadium financing deal – a problem compounded by the fact that Hamilton paid for it without the help of the state or any of the surround counties.

Now, more than 10 years after it opened, stadium costs make up 16.4% of the county budget, with almost no benefit to the surrounding area's economy. (Attendance is actually lower than it was in the old stadium.)

Hamilton County faces a $30 million budget shortfall and has had to cancel a planned property tax rollback in order to service their debt.

The kicker? At the time this article was written, the Bengals only had two winning seasons in their new playhouse.

Two.

[I Push Buttons]

I was too young to give a shit when the stadium(s) were built here, but its always upset me since I started giving a shit.

We built Paul Brown Stadium right next to Riverfront Stadium (literally next door)... And then when Paul Brown Stadium was finished, we blew up Riverfront Stadium and built Great American Ballpark in the exact same spot.

Both new stadiums seat almost just as many people as Riverfront Stadium did (it sat like 40k for baseball and 60k for football compared to 42k for Great American Ballpark and 65k for Paul Brown Stadium).

But yeah, all of those billions spent because they didn't like sharing a stadium, especially an old one, and threatened to leave unless they got new ones... They have even demanded tens of millions more in upgrades since then "to keep up with other teams' stadiums".

I love the Bengals, but its absurd.

[Crissi]

I...actually wasnt complaining about JJ for once. JJ actually made ATT stadium viable economically by being a business genius. JJ doesnt own Arlington ballpark

but yeah, a lot of owners to hold cities hostage, and that royally sucks. A team moving can suck the morale from a city for a time (I lived in Seattle from 05-07. I know this >.>), and thats used to the owners advantage. I do htink the owners should pony up more., since form what I know the vast majority dont use their stadiums to full benefit of the community.

Found an article that talks about dallas. Theres no hard money talks, but theres talk about reputation gains and the like: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro...ents-fuzzy.ece

Also, heres another article: https://www.uta.edu/news/releases/20...businesses.php

[klogaroth]

Even if it is beneficial in the long run the question is more why should public money be spent on this ahead of other things.

It's beneficial for a city to have lots of different businesses, but not all of those businesses are going to have millions of dollars thrown at them. These stadiums aren't a public service. They're businesses. Run as businesses.

My take on things is that public money in sport should primarily or entirely be spent on grass roots funding. Getting people playing sport. This helps in so many ways. It gets people off their arse, it gives them somewhere to belong, it encourages the next generation of athletes, it helps in building a fan base for sports teams.

The US system for sports teams has always struck me as kinda weird, with teams moving around the place. When that was tried in England it didn't go down so well. Locals just said "well fuck you, we'll make our own team then".

[THE Bigzoman]

I was too young to give a shit when the stadium(s) were built here, but its always upset me since I started giving a shit.

We built Paul Brown Stadium right next to Riverfront Stadium (literally next door)... And then when Paul Brown Stadium was finished, we blew up Riverfront Stadium and built Great American Ballpark in the exact same spot.

Both new stadiums seat almost just as many people as Riverfront Stadium did (it sat like 40k for baseball and 60k for football compared to 42k for Great American Ballpark and 65k for Paul Brown Stadium).

But yeah, all of those billions spent because they didn't like sharing a stadium, especially an old one, and threatened to leave unless they got new ones... They have even demanded tens of millions more in upgrades since then "to keep up with other teams' stadiums".

I love the Bengals, but its absurd.

The sad thing is that the Reds were never good enough to justify their own existence.

They suck ass.

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Here is a study for the new mls stadiumy in DC. Seems they project to make money over the long haul.

http://dccouncil.us/files/user_uploa...ion_110514.pdf

Good find.

I'm curious to see the sensitivity analysis.