The power gap in Legion will be even higher than WoD

[RedGamer030]

No the poster is correct.

/sigh... Getting tired of copying this post over and over again for those who have no idea what they are talking about...

"There are catch up mechanics for alts, other specs, and for everyone as time passes for leveling Artifact weapons."
Source: MMO, Front Page as of this posting, specific post: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Dev-Interviews

"Thank you for having the discussion. To provide some more information, here are the honor requirements for each level. We intentionally have the initial levels with less honor so that you are able to get a PvP talent in each row very quickly (by level 10)." Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742644809#6

"Prestige Levels: Reach Honor Level 50, which grants access to high-level PvP talents. Or you can turn in your Honor Level to gain a prestige level for rewards (titles, artifact appearance, mount, pet)", so that at any point in time, even experienced and older characters might be re-grinding their honor talents to reach higher prestige levels. Source: http://www.wowhead.com/news=251616/l...nt-preview-mar

"Gear can still improve your character in PvP, but as an example, a 25 item level difference will result in a 2.5% difference, not a 25% difference."
Source: http://www.wowhead.com/news=251616/l...nt-preview-mar

[Deleted]

/sigh... Getting tired of copying this post over and over again for those who have no idea what they are talking about...

"there is catchup" is worthless without knowing how fast it is. Could be 4 months down to 2 months. Im sure many would enjoy playing 2 months gimped compared to getting geared in a day playing arenas and having a fair fighting chance from there like it's currently the case.

Just stop and think for a second why grind mechanics are introduced - it's to keep you playing. It makes no sense to completly invalidate them as it would defeat the whole point.

[Deleted]

It's also weird that you can do PvP while naked, as long as you have your artifacts equipped you are hardly any less effective

dude, beta servers have artifacts unlocked... sure you can pvp naked in legion first day of lvl 110, but you'll have a long way to go before you're as powerful as those with unlocked weapons. THAT IS what we're trying to say. Legions system is not more fair than wod's. I don't mind it, but jesus christ it'll be a lot slower.

- - - Updated - - -

So basically OP is whining about how people who invest more time than others get more benefits than them ? coz that's pretty much what it sounds like.

Obviously people who spend time on something should be rewarded for their effort, it's people like you who whine about wanting everything with no time investment or effort/skill that has brought this game to be the casual shitfest it has become.

True story.

By your statement, then why are we changing wod's gearing system? Clearly the ones putting down time gets rewarded. xD I have no problem with it tho either wod or legion way. But people who say Legion is faster and more fair are not making sense, I can gear an alt in pvp in wod in 1-2 days. Even faster if i buy champion's honor. But apparently it's not good enough catch up system.

[RedGamer030]

Blah blah blah! Nag nag nag! Whine whine whine!

Let me highlight something for you, since you apparently left your glasses elsewhere...

"Gear can still improve your character in PvP, but as an example, a 25 item level difference will result in a 2.5% difference, not a 25% difference."

[Snackpack]

Getting fully geared in 2 days was bad game design, IMO. They wanted to bring back progression.

[Dizzeeyooo]

"Gear can still improve your character in PvP, but as an example, a 25 item level difference will result in a 2.5% difference, not a 25% difference."

titanforged itemlevel says hi

[Livevil]

Getting fully geared in 2 days was bad game design, IMO. They wanted to bring back progression.

Having long ass grinds in pvp is even worse design. Skill is supposed to differentiate you from the opponent, not the amount of hours you spend farming. We might as well just go back to the vanilla system.

Gear progression is perfectly fine as it. It takes 16 weeks to get a full conquest set by capping each week, less if you get lucky with trashran boxes or rbg boxes(if you even do these at all). If you have a high rating even less.

For a system that is supposed to make pvp "more readily available" it does the exact opposite.

[RedGamer030]

titanforged itemlevel says hi

Oh, the random chance of about ten item levels, or 1% power? Yeah, that makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!! /s

[Snackpack]

Having long ass grinds in pvp is even worse design. Skill is supposed to differentiate you from the opponent, not the amount of hours you spend farming. We might as well just go back to the vanilla system.

Gear progression is perfectly fine as it. It takes 16 weeks to get a full conquest set by capping each week, less if you get lucky with trashran boxes or rbg boxes(if you even do these at all). If you have a high rating even less.

For a system that is supposed to make pvp "more readily available" it does the exact opposite.

That's why they removed "PvP gear" because it's supposed to be about skill. The difference between fully geared and fresh will be dramatically less in Legion. You can do a long ass grind for 1% more damage if you want but you'll still lose to the better player.

[darkwarrior42]

"there is catchup" is worthless without knowing how fast it is. Could be 4 months down to 2 months. Im sure many would enjoy playing 2 months gimped compared to getting geared in a day playing arenas and having a fair fighting chance from there like it's currently the case.

Just stop and think for a second why grind mechanics are introduced - it's to keep you playing. It makes no sense to completly invalidate them as it would defeat the whole point.

It also invalidates the point if people who aren't there from the beginning feel so far behind that they quit before they even get started, or if veterans who might normally switch to other specs or characters for a change of pace instead take a break from the game entirely.

"There is catchup" is not worthless without details. It means we know they intend the rate of building artifact power to increase as the expansion wears on, so a character you start 5 months from now will not take as long to get to the same point as the character you started with.

Now, is it entirely possible that the catchup mechanics might be too weak, and fail to properly address the problem? Yes. It's also possible it will be more than enough, and allow players who start mid-expansion to get to the exact same level as older characters, such that players who put forth a bit of time and effort will always be competitive.

titanforged itemlevel says hi

1) RNG is RNG. You can't farm these, they just happen. It's highly unlikely that one person will have titanforged on a LOT of slots while a second will have none.
2) Do we know you cannot get that sort of gear from PvP? We know there will be gear in PvP, I haven't heard details.
3) A difference of 1-2% is unlikely to be even visible. Variance in RNG (crits, dodges, etc) produces larger swings than that.

[Livevil]

That's why they removed "PvP gear" because it's supposed to be about skill. The difference between fully geared and fresh will be dramatically less in Legion. You can do a long ass grind for 1% more damage if you want but you'll still lose to the better player.

They didnt remove anything. They changed the way you get it and since not everyone can get the same gear anymore, skill is gonna play much less of a role. If you think the long ass grind of 50k honor for all your talents and who knows how much for most of your artifact traits + whatever gear disadvantage equals to "1% more damage" you are delusional.

[Radaney]

"The power gap in Legion will be even higher than WoD"

"Gear can still improve your character in PvP, but as an example, a 25 item level difference will result in a 2.5% difference, not a 25% difference."

Aaaay lmao standard MMO-C shit thread.

[Snackpack]

They didnt remove anything. They changed the way you get it and since not everyone can get the same gear anymore, skill is gonna play much less of a role. If you think the long ass grind of 50k honor for all your talents and who knows how much for most of your artifact traits + whatever gear disadvantage equals to "1% more damage" you are delusional.

No one said a full grind would be 1% more damage, that was just an example of an upgrade, with the max being somewhere around 10% for 100 ilvls higher, an incredible amount less than the gap in Legion. Again, even 10% will not be much between a skilled player and a non-skilled player.

I'm not worried about the talents as the first 6 levels are the most used/desirable talents. Not sure how much an advantage artifacts will be, but that also can be earned through pvp.

I'll just leave this for people who still don't understand how the gearing works:

For starters, we have to shrink the power gap that gear creates in PvP. At first, we considered ignoring gear altogether, but it felt counter-intuitive that gear offered no growth in power at all. We also explored an option that involved scaling PvP gear to within a certain item level range, but this was complicated and made the distribution of secondary stats more important than item level. We think it’s important that if a player sees a piece of gear that is an item level upgrade, they will want to equip it.

We ultimately arrived at a solution where we set player stats automatically in PvP and increase those stats based on your average item level. Players would understand that their stats didn’t come from gear, but that the quality of their gear does matter. Currently, we’ve tuned the system such that for every point above item level 800, your stats are increased by 0.1%. This means that someone with item level 900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with item level 800 gear. For comparison, that’s roughly the same increase that a mere 10 item level increase gives in Warlords of Draenor. This allows us to make getting gear feel good in general, while shrinking the power gap to an acceptable range.

[Deleted]

Let me highlight something for you, since you apparently left your glasses elsewhere...

"Gear can still improve your character in PvP, but as an example, a 25 item level difference will result in a 2.5% difference, not a 25% difference."

Gear isn't the issue. Unless you know how long getting the legendary weapon takes to grind out the discussion is pointless.

[RedGamer030]

Gear isn't the issue. Unless you know how long getting the legendary weapon

Stopping you right there since you clearly do not know what you are talking about. There are no Legendary weapons in Legion, nor are there any Legendary weapons in Warlords of Draenor.

[Deleted]

Stopping you right there since you clearly do not know what you are talking about. There are no Legendary weapons in Legion, nor are there any Legendary weapons in Warlords of Draenor.

Yes, call them artifact weapons smartass, same shit.

[Kauko]

titanforged itemlevel says hi

And? 100ilvl higher item is still just 10% better...

[Gadfly]

Oh, the random chance of about ten item levels, or 1% power? Yeah, that makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!! /s

Don't forget that the item is also averaged with your gear. So unless you had titan forged in every spot, it would be less than a 1% increase.

Ex: 810 in all gear slots, and 820 in one, is like an average items level of 811. so a .1% power increase.
You would need 820 in every slot to see the full 1% increase.

[RedGamer030]

Yes, call them artifact weapons smartass, same shit.

Not in the slightest.

Don't forget that the item is also averaged with your gear. So unless you had titan forged in every spot, it would be less than a 1% increase.

Ex: 810 in all gear slots, and 820 in one, is like an average items level of 811. so a .1% power increase.
You would need 820 in every slot to see the full 1% increase.

Exactly. I was doing a one-to-one comparison on the new gear versus the old piece.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Oh, the random chance of about ten item levels, or 1% power? Yeah, that makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE!!! /s

if you don't know what titanforged is, why do yo even bother replying lol