Rogue in PTR 7.0

[Deleted]

Hi there fellow rogues.

I have some concerns regarding the current rogue state in ptr; sub rogue to be specific.

I know it's a 'test realm' but regarding most specs all the final builds have more or less been implemented, only missing out on the number tunings which will come eventually.

I tried sub rogue on the PTR for good 2 hours now, and so far i have not been able to surpass anywhere near my retail openener.

My current retail sub rogue is 745 and can easily push 600k+ in openers. So far in PTR i've yet to surpass the 400k marker in the opener, i know how much of a role artifacts will play once legion hits but this state currently concerns me.

Any of you have any advice or experienced the same as i did?

Cheers

[elfporn]

Hi there fellow rogues.

I have some concerns regarding the current rogue state in ptr; sub rogue to be specific.

I know it's a 'test realm' but regarding most specs all the final builds have more or less been implemented, only missing out on the number tunings which will come eventually.

I tried sub rogue on the PTR for good 2 hours now, and so far i have not been able to surpass anywhere near my retail openener.

My current retail sub rogue is 745 and can easily push 600k+ in openers. So far in PTR i've yet to surpass the 400k marker in the opener, i know how much of a role artifacts will play once legion hits but this state currently concerns me.

Any of you have any advice or experienced the same as i did?

Cheers

The class trinket and soulcap were both nerfed, this will be where your opener is lower.

Also, the Legion sub's opener is much much longer, exhausting CD's takes a lot longer - that 15sec window is more like 30-60sec, though the vanish bonus, ring, and soulcap still provide that initial burst.

[kalaratic]

ya on top of that the multistrike -> crit conversion is going to eat up a lot of ur dmg since it's not a good stat at all until u get the artifact

[elfporn]

ya on top of that the multistrike -> crit conversion is going to eat up a lot of ur dmg since it's not a good stat at all until u get the artifact

Whatchu talakin about, i've got just over 40% crit unbuffed!

I've actually been wondering about a haste break point - with alacrity stacked i get 16.12 EPS, my thoughts are that ~15 EPS with alacrity is plenty (though admittedly it's only lv 100).

I've got no dead spots in the rotation at all with energy gen so high.

[Zempai]

In my world of logic the tier18 vanish should grant 6CP with 'deeper stratagem' - but it doesn't ):

[Locusto]

The class trinket and soulcap were both nerfed, this will be where your opener is lower.

I've noticed a lower number of soulcap procs, but couldn't find any info on it. What was nerfed on the class trinket and soulcap?

[ymirsson]

PTR Patchnotes:
Trinkets obtained from Raids, PvP, and world drops in Warlords were overtuned and have been brought back to intended power levels.

[Deleted]

I've noticed a lower number of soulcap procs, but couldn't find any info on it. What was nerfed on the class trinket and soulcap?

We lost guaranteed opener proc, because some simcraft hero discovered thats how the mechanic is supposed to work. Totally ignoring the fact that the mechanic would be changed 10 times since then if it worked that way. So after almost 5 years we reverted back to times when RPPM was new, idiotic and nobody liked it.

In my world of logic the tier18 vanish should grant 6CP with 'deeper stratagem' - but it doesn't ):

Wow mate, what are you smoking. They never fixed Premeditation interaction with that bonus.

[classic username]

They manged to fuck up all 3 specs

[Roncero]

PTR Patchnotes:
Trinkets obtained from Raids, PvP, and world drops in Warlords were overtuned and have been brought back to intended power levels.

They went well beyond that, soul cap is pretty much a wasted trinket slot on the ptr, except for the passive agi.

[ymirsson]

aka Stop using old gear.

[arkomen]

how on earth can you say they fuck'd up Assassination? You can argue that they did with sub and combat (i like both in 7.0). But assa is exactly the same with 1 more dot. Explain your logic

[Deleted]

how on earth can you say they fuck'd up Assassination? You can argue that they did with sub and combat (i like both in 7.0). But assa is exactly the same with 1 more dot. Explain your logic

Consider more than just the dps rotation. Assa lost heavy in utility, i can accept deleting premed, grouph stealth, smoke, shiv nerf and BoS for assa but why the fuck would you delete even blind and gouge? And if you decide to castrate it so heavily why not give assa BoS since it's not viable for pvp anymore anyway? It would at least justify making it not viable for pvp.

[minteK917]

Consider more than just the dps rotation. Assa lost heavy in utility, i can accept deleting premed, grouph stealth, smoke, shiv nerf and BoS for assa but why the fuck would you delete even blind and gouge? And if you decide to castrate it so heavily why not give assa BoS since it's not viable for pvp anymore anyway? It would at least justify making it not viable for pvp.

Assa is the current top PVP spec on the beta. Its the only dps spec not outdone by tanking specs and fury warrior. Bleed alone are more then half characters hp at 110........ Kings banes artifact ability does ridiculous burst. Sub does not have blind either, only outlaw does. Sub has the most mobility of the 3 spec, but it has no reliable slow and infact its burst is limited.

Considering how limited most classes mobility are in legion. Example dps dk cant do anything but walk. Ret paladin cant do anything but walk. Druid shifting has a cooldown. Caster arent even worth mentioning, aside from fire mage and arcane mage damage, casters are just fodder. Enh shaman the king of PVE right now, is nothing in PVP. No cc, one survivability cooldown total. Hunter with that shitty heal and one invincibility. I think too many rogue noobs here are basing their ideas of classes on the PTR which is a joke. The only thing similar about rogue on the ptr to legion is assassination bleed damage. Put garrote and rupture on someone, exsanginate, vanish and watch them die. If it was aoe, it would be as op as ptr barrage. Btw barrage tickles at lvl 110.

[HeavenDenies]

Assa is the current top PVP spec on the beta. Its the only dps spec not outdone by tanking specs and fury warrior. Bleed alone are more then half characters hp at 110........ Kings banes artifact ability does ridiculous burst. Sub does not have blind either, only outlaw does. Sub has the most mobility of the 3 spec, but it has no reliable slow and infact its burst is limited.

Considering how limited most classes mobility are in legion. Example dps dk cant do anything but walk. Ret paladin cant do anything but walk. Druid shifting has a cooldown. Caster arent even worth mentioning, aside from fire mage and arcane mage damage, casters are just fodder. Enh shaman the king of PVE right now, is nothing in PVP. No cc, one survivability cooldown total. Hunter with that shitty heal and one invincibility. I think too many rogue noobs here are basing their ideas of classes on the PTR which is a joke. The only thing similar about rogue on the ptr to legion is assassination bleed damage. Put garrote and rupture on someone, exsanginate, vanish and watch them die. If it was aoe, it would be as op as ptr barrage. Btw barrage tickles at lvl 110.

Sorry if I missed it, but you mentioned PVP, but how are the rogue specs doing PVE wise?

[minteK917]

Sorry if I missed it, but you mentioned PVP, but how are the rogue specs doing PVE wise?

Its solid in PVE all 3 specs. Its hard to judge when enh shaman is super over tuned doing 30-40%more dps then everyone. Can only expect number changes before it goes live, otherwise it will be the worst state the game ever was in both pvp and pve. Rogue get one of the better deal out of it for now.

[HeavenDenies]

Its solid in PVE all 3 specs. Its hard to judge when enh shaman is super over tuned doing 30-40%more dps then everyone. Can only expect number changes before it goes live, otherwise it will be the worst state the game ever was in both pvp and pve. Rogue get one of the better deal out of it for now.

Very good to hear that even with Rupture getting the tuning it did Assassination is still a strong spec to play. And I'm sure Enh Shaman will get tuned as well at some point before the Legion pre-patch goes live.

[Deleted]

Assa is the current top PVP spec on the beta. Its the only dps spec not outdone by tanking specs and fury warrior. Bleed alone are more then half characters hp at 110........ Kings banes artifact ability does ridiculous burst. Sub does not have blind either, only outlaw does. Sub has the most mobility of the 3 spec, but it has no reliable slow and infact its burst is limited.

Considering how limited most classes mobility are in legion. Example dps dk cant do anything but walk. Ret paladin cant do anything but walk. Druid shifting has a cooldown. Caster arent even worth mentioning, aside from fire mage and arcane mage damage, casters are just fodder. Enh shaman the king of PVE right now, is nothing in PVP. No cc, one survivability cooldown total. Hunter with that shitty heal and one invincibility. I think too many rogue noobs here are basing their ideas of classes on the PTR which is a joke. The only thing similar about rogue on the ptr to legion is assassination bleed damage. Put garrote and rupture on someone, exsanginate, vanish and watch them die. If it was aoe, it would be as op as ptr barrage. Btw barrage tickles at lvl 110.

Outlaw got exclusively gouge. Sub has Blind and it also has smoke exclusively wich makes it much stronger in utility.

The slow getting dispelled doesn't even matter. There won't be a situation where you will have better uptime than sub with another spec because sub has a no cd gapcloser with the new ambush getting cloak&dagger passive and the perma-freedom passive you can spec additionally to shadowstep&sprint both got.

It's right that assa does stupid bleed damage but for a healer that's alot easier to deal with than being unable to heal at all thanks to smoke&blind. Thanks to pve i don't expect sub/assa going live too far apart in dps so overall much stronger cc+ similiar dps > extremly good dot damage. That counts double for rbg where your dps contribution is much smaller than 3v3.

[hachidori]

What I want to know is why they changed Rupture from a great dot to a near-worthless dot, all in one patch.

[HeavenDenies]

What I want to know is why they changed Rupture from a great dot to a near-worthless dot, all in one patch.

Are you certain about that? From what I read it was ticking for 270k~, but now it's 55-65k~. That seems to me like a justified nerf, but then again, I'm not in the beta.