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  1. #21
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    except publicity is not the oxygen. Muslims ARE. Majority of its recruits are from Muslim countries, where they have no such restriction. This is to confuse the knowledge that he committed those crimes due to being Muslim. Because it hints doubts of Muslim loyalty to this country, since he was born in the country, yet put islam first. Which is true, some muslims and all muslims from some specific regions put islam before loyalty to the nation they are citizen of.
    ISIS require publicity, not so much now as in the past, but they are fully aware of the need for it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    From everything we've heard, he was gay and had trouble reconciling his sexuality with his beliefs and his ties to ISIS. He wasn't an Islamic terrorist, he was a serious sociopath with a very, very deeply internalized homophobia.

    None of this was done in the name of ISIS, Islam, Christianity, or any other religion, and dredging up ISIS gives support to this crime as a terrorist event and not what it was.



    He didn't do anything on ISIS's orders, and he didn't do what he did for ISIS.
    Personally I believe he did this as revenge against gays since he couldn't stand himself being gay, then just decided to scream ISIS for the fuck of it. I figured I would be bashed as a homophobe glad to see you share a similar view on the matter.

  3. #23
    While I am annoyed by PC gone mad at times, in this case the move by the administration seems more diplomatic than is to be PC. Avoiding fanning the flames so to speak than be sounding the alarm. I believe most people understand this has ideology behind it regardless if they avoid labeling it. My opinion anyways.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    It is official this administration will put Political Correctness ahead of sanity ahead of reality. More concerned not to offend a minority then they are with giving the public the truth. It is just pathetically sad
    It's official that Vyxn has to shout because his head is so far up his [...] that we wouldn't hear him otherwise.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    He didn't do anything on ISIS's orders, and he didn't do what he did for ISIS.
    What type of people do you think create organizations such as ISIS?

    He pledged himself to that kind of Islamic extremism.

    Why the hell are you disassociating this man from Islamic extremism?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    What type of people do you think create organizations such as ISIS?

    He pledged himself to that kind of Islamic extremism.

    Why the hell are you disassociating this man from Islamic extremism?
    pretty sure @lockedout said it all.

  7. #27
    ISIS does not need our government to further its propaganda. Its doing a fine job on social media itself. All these terrorist attacks are not going to stop because your hiding the voice of the terrorists. Its going to stop when you stop the terrorists. They seem to think if we stop offending them they will stop killing us. They dont want to stop killing us, their mission is to convert and destroy. Either your with them or against them.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    From everything we've heard, he was gay and had trouble reconciling his sexuality with his beliefs and his ties to ISIS. He wasn't an Islamic terrorist, he was a serious sociopath with a very, very deeply internalized homophobia.

    None of this was done in the name of ISIS, Islam, Christianity, or any other religion, and dredging up ISIS gives support to this crime as a terrorist event and not what it was.



    He didn't do anything on ISIS's orders, and he didn't do what he did for ISIS.
    and you are claiming you aren't ignoring reality you just did
    he called 911 and said he was doing this in the name of ISIS and ISIS has a standing order to all Muslims to commit acts of terror when ever and where ever they can
    I guess I get to claim the Planed Parenthood terrorist attack wasn't done in the name of Christianity even after he admitted doing so based on his belief

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    From everything we've heard, he was gay and had trouble reconciling his sexuality with his beliefs and his ties to ISIS. He wasn't an Islamic terrorist, he was a serious sociopath with a very, very deeply internalized homophobia.

    None of this was done in the name of ISIS, Islam, Christianity, or any other religion, and dredging up ISIS gives support to this crime as a terrorist event and not what it was.



    He didn't do anything on ISIS's orders, and he didn't do what he did for ISIS.
    How can you honestly say he didn't do anything on ISIS orders? You haven't heard them urge followers to launch attacks on civilians? Didn't he pledge allegiance to ISIS in a 911 call?

  10. #30
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Personally I believe he did this as revenge against gays since he couldn't stand himself being gay, then just decided to scream ISIS for the fuck of it. I figured I would be bashed as a homophobe glad to see you share a similar view on the matter.
    It's pretty clear when you read it all. He went to Pulse regularly. He had hookups and talked to guys on apps. He admitted to his wife he was having trouble with his sexuality, AND he was a struggling to reconcile it all with his faith. He was clearly unbalanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    What type of people do you think create organizations such as ISIS?

    He pledged himself to that kind of Islamic extremism.

    Why the hell are you disassociating this man from Islamic extremism?
    I could go shoot someone and shout "FOR ISIS!"

    Does that make me a terrorist? Does that make me part of ISIS? No. He wasn't. He didn't do what he did for ISIS. He didn't do what he did to further their goals. This wasn't a crime meant to stir fear, this was a "I'm gay and I hate myself" crime, something we've seen many examples of throughout history. It's just the new treat to dress it up on the shoulders of Muslims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    and you are claiming you aren't ignoring reality you just did
    he called 911 and said he was doing this in the name of ISIS and ISIS has a standing order to all Muslims to commit acts of terror when ever and where ever they can
    I guess I get to claim the Planed Parenthood terrorist attack wasn't done in the name of Christianity even after he admitted doing so based on his belief
    Christianity isn't a terrorist organization and some moron bombing a Planned Parenthood can claim any allegiance they want, but it doesn't make their crime part of that faith. Nor does this guy. ISIS didn't do this. He did this for reasons completely unrelated to extremism.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    What type of people do you think create organizations such as ISIS?

    He pledged himself to that kind of Islamic extremism.

    Why the hell are you disassociating this man from Islamic extremism?
    Simple they rather ignore the truth ignore reality then offend one of their chosen victim classes
    it is like those women in Europe that gets raped by refugees and not report it because they don't want to make those refugees look bad

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    Stop bombing his country?

    The guy who was born in America?
    Jut because we hand out Citizenship to anyone who gets popped out at the 11th hour doesn't mean they view Americas as their country. The folks down south who cross the border in a less than legal fashion and then ride around with a non-american flags in their cars or in their home's windows prove that

  13. #33
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I could go shoot someone and shout "FOR ISIS!"

    Does that make me a terrorist? Does that make me part of ISIS? No. He wasn't. He didn't do what he did for ISIS. He didn't do what he did to further their goals. This wasn't a crime meant to stir fear, this was a "I'm gay and I hate myself" crime, something we've seen many examples of throughout history.
    I am not convinced that it is either/or, he can both hate himself for being gay and do what he did in support of ISIS, people are often ("constantly" is probably more accurate) contradictory.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    It's pretty clear when you read it all. He went to Pulse regularly. He had hookups and talked to guys on apps. He admitted to his wife he was having trouble with his sexuality, AND he was a struggling to reconcile it all with his faith. He was clearly unbalanced.



    I could go shoot someone and shout "FOR ISIS!"

    Does that make me a terrorist? Does that make me part of ISIS? No. He wasn't. He didn't do what he did for ISIS. He didn't do what he did to further their goals. This wasn't a crime meant to stir fear, this was a "I'm gay and I hate myself" crime, something we've seen many examples of throughout history. It's just the new treat to dress it up on the shoulders of Muslims.



    Christianity isn't a terrorist organization and some moron bombing a Planned Parenthood can claim any allegiance they want, but it doesn't make their crime part of that faith. Nor does this guy. ISIS didn't do this. He did this for reasons completely unrelated to extremism.
    like a said you rather ignore reality ignore the truth so not to offend it is PC gone amuck
    you denying he called 911 and gave his alliance to ISIS are you denying ISIS doesn't have a standing order to all Muslims to strike when ever and where ever they can
    they just needed to before the attack to announce there alliance and they would be considered martyrs

  15. #35
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    I am not convinced that it is either/or, he can both hate himself for being gay and do what he did in support of ISIS, people are often ("constantly" is probably more accurate) contradictory.
    That's true, he could have intended to support ISIS. Only he could tell us, but he's dead. From the evidence, though, it looks like he used the buzzword "ISIS" for notoriety, not for motivation. His motivation appears to have been his sexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    like a said you rather ignore reality ignore the truth so not to offend it is PC gone amuck
    you denying he called 911 and gave his alliance to ISIS are you denying ISIS doesn't have a standing order to all Muslims to strike when ever and where ever they can
    they just needed to before the attack to announce there alliance and they would be considered martyrs
    Please stop putting words in my mouth. At no point did I say he didn't invoke the name of ISIS.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High View Post
    pretty sure @lockedout said it all.
    So imagine the shooter was just mentally ill.

    Ok.

    Now imagine the same type of "mentally ill" people keep murdering people en mass.

    Now what? You don't want to blame the religious extremism such people create. Ok.

    See, what I can't understand is why it's almost as if certain people are attempting to de-emphasize the crimes of these Islamic extremists. Why? They will come for them too, sooner or later.

    This is suicidal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I could go shoot someone and shout "FOR ISIS!"

    Does that make me a terrorist? Does that make me part of ISIS? No. He wasn't. He didn't do what he did for ISIS. He didn't do what he did to further their goals. This wasn't a crime meant to stir fear, this was a "I'm gay and I hate myself" crime, something we've seen many examples of throughout history. It's just the new treat to dress it up on the shoulders of Muslims.
    Men like him create this kind of extremism. You don't want to blame the religion, but isn't Islamic extremism a huge problem? Or are you going to tell me that ISIS are all self-hating gays too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Christianity isn't a terrorist organization...
    All religions have extremists. It just seems like Islam has far more extremists than others. Or rather, extremists claiming to be Muslim are murdering people en mass.

    I find the fact that you are de-emphasizing the chosen religion of this shooter to be a betrayal of public trust. It's that empathy gap again.

    But hey, vote for Hillary so she can make it harder for law-abiding citizens to buy guns.

    Suicide.

  17. #37
    I wouldn't agree with the reasoning here even if I believed it or thought it would be effectual to their goals.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  18. #38
    The Undying Kalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    That's true, he could have intended to support ISIS. Only he could tell us, but he's dead. From the evidence, though, it looks like he used the buzzword "ISIS" for notoriety, not for motivation. His motivation appears to have been his sexuality.
    Massacring dozens of people in a club because you hate gays is enough to gain notoriety. Claiming to do it in the name of ISIS seems a bit odd, as you are partially turning the attention away from yourself and onto another organisation, thereby "sharing the credit" (for want of a better phrase).

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    This wasn't a crime meant to stir fear, this was a "I'm gay and I hate myself" crime, something we've seen many examples of throughout history. It's just the new treat to dress it up on the shoulders of Muslims.
    Problem is, he would have been less likely to hate himself if he didn't belong to a religion that teaches how being gay makes you immoral/defective. It may not have been ISIS's fault, but there's no way you can disassociate what he did from the same underlying ideology that they use.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    So you're saying people don't already think he did this because he's an islamist terrorist with ties to ISIS and hated gays due to his beliefs?
    I think he declared an allegiance to IS to make sure his name stayed in the news, because if it was "just another mass shooting" it would have disappeared from the news stations by noon the next day. This way every news station is broadcasting his face and name and talking about him. I really doubt he had any connection to IS other than he was a Muslim who hated gays and IS is a group of Muslims who hate gays.

    He was a narcissist closet homosexual who hated himself for being that way, and he took that anger out on a group of innocent people.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2016-06-19 at 10:27 PM.

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