Battle Field of the Immortals

[zesilo]

Ok so there is a huge flaw in the design of this map. Whichever team gets the immortal to half health, makes the immortal change positions and go invulnerable. Well the 2nd time, after one of them has gotten to half hp, you can burst the boss for its FULL hp without it ever changing again at half hp. So basically, there is no point in ever trying to kill the other team's Immortal first, since you can just defend yours and go for picks, get a pick and let them kill your immortal, then either wipe their team or just burst the boss in 1 swipe since they have a man down. I really think if you take out half the hp of your enemy's immortal, it should still do the stance switch if the team were to get yours to half hp after the first phase change. I hope this makes sense...

[Mormolyce]

It's very risky to try to burn down a full immortal when the enemy only has to burn half HP. If they're only down 1 they'll probably still beat you.

It makes a big difference in the early game where res timers are so short that even if you wipe out the enemy team they might still be able to contest.

I've played games where we spent forever defending, then went to burn our immortal only to have one sneaky enemy player kill the immortal while we were busy. I usually recommend having one strong PVE hero (eg specialist) work on the enemy immortal while the rest of the team defends.

[zesilo]

But isn't it odd they don't phase after each one hits 50% hp?

[Mormolyce]

But isn't it odd they don't phase after each one hits 50% hp?

It'd be really awkward if they did. Team A gets their immortal to 50% just as team B gets theirs to 52%. Sides swap, teams start damaging... and half a second later they swap sides again.

[RH92]

It is totally dependable on team composition.

If you have Poke Heroes like Lunara, you can afford defending while she is running back and forth between dealing damage to Immortal and team fighting. On the other hand, if you have very high DPS Heroes like Greymane, you better molest that Immortal.

In short, it comes down to realizing whether your team can win the DPS race.

[ttak82]

The design is ok a it makes the objective more dynamic. Smarter play is rewarded, mistakes are punished. A few points to note since it was introduced:

1> Player scaling changes. Players have more health and damage at the start of the games. ate game, it is the same.
2> Early-mid game death timers are longer, since the scaling patch, so a death is slightly more unforgiving early game now.
3> Late game Immortals now scale a bit
4> many people have changed the way they play this battleground. When the BG was new, almost everyone would go into a dps race. Now, someone usually insists defending and this is risky in the sense that if it fails, the loosing team faces an immortal that has a large Shield. This happens a lot in pro games as well now..

I'd say the second swap can interrupt enemies that are ahead on immortals and this is a good thing. It encourages fighting in the central area as well or after the transition. You also see a lot of players split push the immortal now, which was rare when BfE came out.

[Rothg]

The design is ok a it makes the objective more dynamic. Smarter play is rewarded, mistakes are punished. A few points to note since it was introduced:

1> Player scaling changes. Players have more health and damage at the start of the games. ate game, it is the same.
2> Early-mid game death timers are longer, since the scaling patch, so a death is slightly more unforgiving early game now.
3> Late game Immortals now scale a bit
4> many people have changed the way they play this battleground. When the BG was new, almost everyone would go into a dps race. Now, someone usually insists defending and this is risky in the sense that if it fails, the loosing team faces an immortal that has a large Shield. This happens a lot in pro games as well now..

I'd say the second swap can interrupt enemies that are ahead on immortals and this is a good thing. It encourages fighting in the central area as well or after the transition. You also see a lot of players split push the immortal now, which was rare when BfE came out.

Interesting. Im of the camp that thinks after the first or second immortal, when the death timers are a little longer, its better to defend first until you can get a kill or two. just seems like a better idea to fight defensively when you have the damage and stuns of the immortal as a natural advantage. Especially if you have hammer or something, but so many people vehemently disagree and argue its always better to attack. until now I hadnt heard a convincing argument for attacking first.

I still believe its a bad idea to try to fight them when you have a disadvantage

[RH92]

I still believe its a bad idea to try to fight them when you have a disadvantage

That is the thing. People are dumb.

Your composition wins the DPS race? If yes, then always attack first and retreat when they come to defend. As you said, you don't want to fight at disadvantage so you move back. What can enemy team do now? Send one to do damage to your Immortal, possibly making it 4v5? Waste time defending Immortal? Pulling back as a group to attack Immortal, which creates another opportunity for your team?

All enemy team can do, is to pick fight at a neutral position or defend from the beginning. BoE is a patience test more than any other map.

[apepi]

I have always found fully defending an immortal is horrible, going in all as 5 or defending with 3 or 4 and 1 on the immortal works.

[PosPosPos]

I have always found fully defending an immortal is horrible, going in all as 5 or defending with 3 or 4 and 1 on the immortal works.

It's not horrible if you have a teamfight oriented comp and properly wipe the opposing team defending as 5.

[apepi]

It's not horrible if you have a teamfight oriented comp and properly wipe the opposing team defending as 5.

I always felt it takes too much skill and coordination to pull off. Even if you kill 4 people early game, you are going to have to hearth back for not having any mana or health. By then, the other team will be back. Even if the team wipes, they will at least have damaged the immortal some. I just don't see it working. Don't draft a weak comp for this map and force yourself to have to defend.

[zesilo]

This is for sure a more opinion issue above anything. I just feel it would play out better if it was changed because the way as is just seems out of touch. A little unfair, a little confusing, and just utterly feeling a bit unrewarding if you do manage to damage him to half then get team wiped or die and lose the objective because the enemy team now has the chance to FULL burst the immortal, rather than just half the immortal's health.

TL;DR: It lets team a who got punished and wiped come back and wipe or push back team b without having to wait for the immortals to go through their phase.

The first phase is too unrewarding especially at the early levels.

[Deleted]

Bay making this thread you ignore 75% of mechanism behind the map. Wonder how you come with 100% after the 50%.

[apepi]

That's basically the case with every map. Hell, sometimes the team that dies first ends up with the advantage in pug play.

This used to happen a lot more befire the death timer change.

[Mormolyce]

That is the thing. People are dumb.

Your composition wins the DPS race? If yes, then always attack first and retreat when they come to defend. As you said, you don't want to fight at disadvantage so you move back. What can enemy team do now? Send one to do damage to your Immortal, possibly making it 4v5? Waste time defending Immortal? Pulling back as a group to attack Immortal, which creates another opportunity for your team?

All enemy team can do, is to pick fight at a neutral position or defend from the beginning. BoE is a patience test more than any other map.

Aye, the Immortal is won or lost on whether your team understands this.

[PosPosPos]

I always felt it takes too much skill and coordination to pull off. Even if you kill 4 people early game, you are going to have to hearth back for not having any mana or health. By then, the other team will be back. Even if the team wipes, they will at least have damaged the immortal some. I just don't see it working. Don't draft a weak comp for this map and force yourself to have to defend.

And then you repeat. You might lose one immortal, but be up by 2-3 levels after wiping them again and again if they are stupid enough to keep coming back for more.

Doesn't take "skill and coordination" outside of what's required already using other strategies.