How could votes be rigged in 1st world countries today?

[Actarius]

Although if you know what state you need to go for, it's not that unfeasible. Say you have a large budget to pull from. Perhaps something like the budget for a presidential campaign. In addition to that, maybe the person running is quite rich themselves. Pay a bunch of people to commit fraud. Pay them say $100 each. You would of course have to pay some other people to find these people so they can't be linked back to the person running. Say you payed this person $5,000. Let's also assume you get 5,000 people to do this. That would cost a total of $505,000.

Now, if 5,000 people vote 10 times. That's 50,000 votes. You could probably even double that for a cost of $1,005,000 to 100,000 votes. That many votes in a state like Ohio, where their vote has been for the winning presidential candidate since 1960something (unverified, just what I heard), I mean that really could have a huge impact.

Now of course I'm pulling those numbers out of my ass, but it seems to me like it could be done and it could change the outcome of an election.

The issues with that was already outlined in my post, but I will repeat it her for ease of access.

First step: Identify the states that need to be flipped and then organizing the ground game
Problem: It is hard to know, beyond polling (which is already error-prone), which states need flipped. The issue with Ohio is that while it is a swing state, it generally isn't the Tipping Point state. The tipping point state is defined as the state, won by smallest margin, that was necessary in getting to 270 electoral votes. In 1992 the tipping point for Bill Clinton was Tennessee, which took him from 263 ECV to 274 ECV. He went on to win 10 unnecessary states totalling 370 ECV. In 1996 the tipping state was Pennsylvania, pushing Clinton from 256 ECV to 279 ECV, he then won 9 unnecessary states giving him a grand total of 379 ECV. 2000 of course being everyone's favorite example had Florida as Bush's tipping point state (he won no extra states). 2004 had Ohio as the tipping point state, pushing Bush from 254 to 274, he then won 2 extra states. 2008 it was Colorado, and Obama one 5 extra states, 2012 was Colorado again with Obama only winning 3 extra states.

So in 1992, you'd need to not only know the 11 states that went for Clinton by the smallest margins, you'd also need to organize around 750k fradulent votes.
1996 was 10 states and 1.4 million votes
2000 - again weird year - was 1 state and 500 votes
2004 was 3 states and 134k votes
2008 was 6 states and 1.1m votes
2012 was 4 states and 527k votes

2016 is shaping up to be 7 states and 1.2m votes (based on current polls)

A further issue is any state with safeguards against voter fraud, you may either need to target harder states (increasing risk as you need more and more votes to flip those states), or produce false credentials to circumvent the security (again increasing risk of being caught)

Also these are the bare minimum, if you fraud those exact number of votes, every state that you organize fraud in will trigger automatic recounts, so you need to increase those voting numbers by around 2% to get around auto-recount.

Second Step: Setting up the ground game
Problem: So you need to target specific precincts, keep turnout numbers at the same level, and leak small amounts of votes into each precinct. If you flood a few precincts, you risk flagging high voter turnout and then triggering an investigation. So your ground game needs to strategically target specific precincts, susceptible to voter fraud, and spread out your vote.

You also need transportation for your duplicate voters. You need to ensure they'll actually vote multiple times and not just go along and not vote. You need to ensure if they do vote multiple times, they are not voting back and forth (i.e. 5x Clinton and 5x Trump so no net gain). You also need all of these people to stay quiet, and not break under pressure as everyone questions how polls could be so wrong in so many states.

If you hire a middle man to organize all of this, you need to make sure he's doing his job, and it'll be expensive. You also need to keep this information off your tax records and do it all under the table. Your middle man might just pocket the money and say he's doing it. You can't actually check without getting implicated. If your guy gets caught, there's a good chance he'll rat you out if the FBI gives him a decent deal. You need to account for all of that.

Third Step: Voting Day Execution
Problem: Everything needs to work right. There is no second attempt. Anything goes wrong, anyone leaks this scheme, around 5% of votes (in any state) don't go through due to various problems like time, transportation, people backing out etc, and your plan fails. So much can go wrong. It's why organized crime is so rare and easy to topple.

[Nakotsu]

well the USA uses online voting as well do they not?Thus hackers can sway the voting system. Or if your in Clintons camp some things can get swayed by falsely reporting the results Im sure shes got some people in the total tally box offices that are under her thumb.

either way its all a bunch of hocus pocus. Watch the left hand while the right hand is doing the dirty deed...

[Radeghost]

It's kinda retarded to believe that elections are not rigged. Give me just one reason not to rig elections. If they have power to do it and remain clean, why not? It's sad to see how people trust their governments. They're corrupted. They always were.

[Radeghost]

Who would rig the elections and why?

People responsible for voting management. Why? You really ask why? For money, geez.

[Radeghost]

And where does this money come from?

Let's see... for example https://theintercept.com/2016/08/25/...on-foundation/

Also http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/07/goldm...mp-report.html

I don't know how people can be so blind. I don't support the blonde orange, but it's obviously rigged from the beginning. Who owns the media, owns the voters.

[NED funded]

The vast majority of people might not be very well informed to be able to make a quality decision, but almost all people have some ideas, beliefs, views, dreams that make them able to make a well thought-out choice. I don't think saying that media is controlling people's minds is fair. This isn't North Korea, after all, where actually any alternative opinion is suppressed by the government with the use of force.

The media has influence over people. If that wasn't the case companies wouldn't be spending millions on marketing.

[Axelond]

To rig entire US election you probably would only need to control 2-3 states. If you can rigg some of the swing states you could change a very close election.

[Orlong]

You might be able to vote 10 times depending on how far away precincts are and how much time you have. No state has ever been close enough to swing the election either way with less than like 5k votes. "Tipping point states" aren't usually close anyway.

Wrong. Bush beat Gore by 1784 votes in Florida and Florida decided the election

[Radeghost]

Why the hell would a company like Goldman Sachs even care about rigging the presidency?

For money. <_< Maybe they've got some under-the-table deals with Clinton? Considering her person, that's very likely to be true.
Also, I'll quote something

>have to listen to leftists whine and complain for a decade under Bush about conspiracy shit and how the government is corrupt
>now there is actual, undeniable evidence of government corruption under Obama and Hillary
>not a single peep, and if there is they'll say "But this corruption is good" "Trump and republicans are..."

[Orlong]

Now, you're probably thinking of going right to the source of votes, okay! Paper ballots. There are a few ways to fraud paper ballots, varying by location. Most precincts with paper ballots use machines to count the votes, if the machine cannot, then the vote isn't counted. Alternatively very few precincts hand count, and those that do take "sets" of like 100 votes, and are counted 3 times, by 3 different people, and once in agreement, those votes are registered as "good".

To fraud paper ballots, you need to get the other counters to agree to fraud ballots, no way around it. At this point you have the same issue as above, convincing people to risk everything.

Or someone working at the Post Office could steal a bunch of absentee ballots and fill them out and send them in, rather than deliver them to people who are supposed to receive them to vote.

[Logwyn]

In the US thanks to the stupid way voting works even IF someone faked millions of votes the electoral college still does the final cut.
Frankly voting is semi useless in the US in the end.

This is one of the reasons for the electoral college. Fighting voter fraud. You have to effect 51 vote counts not just one with the electoral college. Yeah you can make it a landslide in California. But under the college you don't change the outcomes the other 50. You'd have to effect all of them which is much harder to do.

Under popular vote you just effect the one popular vote. Easier to do.

Then again you still have popular vote for the other offices.

- - - Updated - - -

Wrong. Bush beat Gore by 1784 votes in Florida and Florida decided the election

This is the "last play of the game costs us the game" argument. Florida itself didn't win the election.

[Deleted]

The only way it's "rigged" in the West is in how they maneuvered all these career politicians into the positions they want to for elections.

We really don't have much choise outside of these candidates.

[Deleted]

I'm not American, but I would like to see what is your opinion about this video. Especially opinions from those who think the video shouldn't be taken seriously. I want to hear their side of the story.
Video link:

[May90]

That's because North Korea is primitive.
There are much better ways to get things done.

I disagree that almost all people make well thought-out choices.
Most of them actually don't really think about them at all, or they are just limited in their thinking.
I don't think the average citizen is all that bright. And half of the population is below the average.

I think there is a lot of intellectual laziness in the decisions of almost all people (you and me included), but I don't think that many people are outright morons. Most people, even looking stupid initially, actually have some thought out ideas, if you talk with them closely about it.

The media has influence over people. If that wasn't the case companies wouldn't be spending millions on marketing.

Sure, but that influence really can only work out when people want to believe in something and the media provide them with support. Media cannot just make something up and brainwash people out of the blue, this isn't how it works.

Media do have a certain degree of power, but I think this power is usually exaggerated. This power only really results in total brainwashing when the government suppresses alternative opinions with force.

[Actarius]

Or someone working at the Post Office could steal a bunch of absentee ballots and fill them out and send them in, rather than deliver them to people who are supposed to receive them to vote.

Agreed, mail ballots are a major liability, but my above analysis still holds true. You still need to target the right states, and do it on such a massive scale (with no leaks) that it's next to impossible. Can a mailman steal a dozen ballots? sure. Can you strategically coordinate a mole in almost all post offices in the right states in order to change the election? no.

The main issue is missing ballots, most places that mail ballots, they come from an election board, and they only send enough to the post office to cover all the people who've requested a mail ballot. So if enough people report missing/lost ballots, that'll trigger an investigation.

The logistics, feasibility, and organizational requirements to fraud several states out of an election would still be neigh impossible.

[Theodarzna]

Obviously our elections are incorruptible, unless its Goerge W. Bush, or Putin doing it to help Trump, But Clinton cannot possibly be involved in such evil. NO WAY!

Her Radiance is too bright, she is a shining Light unto the Nations!

[Actarius]

Wrong. Bush beat Gore by 1784 votes in Florida and Florida decided the election

Yup I mentioned that I was leaving that out, due to it being heavily contested and a statistical outlier. Feel free to examine every other presidential election (the ones I was referencing) and you'll find my statement is true.

[DJ117]

So FBI has now reopened the Clintongate email case. Nobody deletes 3000 emails and so thoroughly unless they are hiding something.

[Tijuana]

This isn't a left or right issue and there are variety of sources for example the Hacking Democracy film focused on Bush winning the election with suspect votes.



I would imagine paper votes would take a lot more effort than a couple of people tinkering with a few machines.

Yeah but Alex Jones is the Supreme Leader of Conspiracy Conspiracies.

[minteK917]

I could be wrong here,

but I was under the impression if there was more than a single pencil mark / looks like its been rubbed out / indent in any spot with the exception of the one vote area, then its void to prevent this?

Either way, I guess its easy enough to bribe someone to miscount, although Id imagine there are other safeguards in place,

Its more like you got to bribe a couple thousands people to rig stuff on that scale lol.