Movie proves Thrall cheated to win in WoD?

[Deleted]

Thrall is the author of the entire Warcraft universe. It's all in his dream.

[Sierra85]

How can the elements be pissed at him, if they were the ones that helped him defeat garrosh in the first place.

[Grenzstein]

It's funny how people love to hate something just because it's popular.
Thrall didn't cheat and that isn't the reason why he is giving Doomhammer up.

[boyzma]

How can the elements be pissed at him, if they were the ones that helped him defeat garrosh in the first place.

No! You just cheated...you used logic!

[Dastreus]

Why should he feel bad about using magic in his duel? Fuck Garrosh, he was a maniacal racist.

[stomination]

Why should he feel bad about using magic in his duel? Fuck Garrosh, he was a maniacal racist.

Basically this.

If you had to fight someone 1 on 1 and if the other person was to win he would slaughter everything you cared for I bet most of you would "cheat" to win.

The rest of you would probably run away.

[tristannarutofan]

movie lore =/= game lore.

I actually just realized that Thrall used magic during his first Mak'gora with Garrosh right before the undead invaded ogrimmar.

Basically Thrall is a main character and leader of the horde so he's been kinda important so people are tired of him. good people just say they want to see other heros, overdone people look for any excuse to hate him.

Also if you read Durotan you'd see that the Mak'Gora in that universe is a bit different. You arent allowed to let the person live and it can be called for seemingly anything. Its a major plot point that Durotan chooses not to kill the rebel and a huge political risk.

Its obvious if you pay attention to Garrosh's and Thralls character arc that their little Mak'Gora was 100% them changing a major battle that could have lead to Garrosh getting killed by a stray arrow, to a 1 on 1 fight. There were no time of meditation. no shaman to bless their weapons. its like how both royal duelists and street fighters will refer to something as an "honorable fight" but one of them its a ritual and the other is basically "dont be a dick".

Also the Elements are displeased with him. They still answer his call but he's on thin ice. Not because he "cheated" ( dont even get where you'd get that from) but because he solved a personal vendetta with powers he's granted in order to protect his people and balance the elements. They'd probably have been fine if he had just executed Garrosh with an axe instead of Lighting.

Thrall was so powerful with the elements because of his relationship with them. Having a soured relationship means he's a normal shaman and not an overly powerful one. It basically just brought him down to normal npc status.

p.s. The idea of a 30+ warrior challenging a 20+ warrior who's relied on magic for the last 10 years is so freaking stupid. Like according to these "thrall cheated" people Garrosh could just challenge Tyrande to a Mak'gora and kill her with his bare hands.

Thrall is a SHAMAN. and he's a SHAMAN because he respects life, respects people, respects the spirits. Something Garrosh has never done and could never do. Garrosh literally died because he's an asshole nobody likes.

That is why it was so perfect.

[khazmodan]

Why should he feel bad about using magic in his duel? Fuck Garrosh, he was a maniacal racist.

Everybody is a racist, but some people (parasites) make money off claiming others are racist. The problem with Garrosh is he was an unstable leader that would get many of his own kind killed for his own personal lust for power...sounds like most world leaders though if they were given unlimited power.

[Dastreus]

Basically, if you were up against Hitler 1 on 1, would you not cheat to kill the man?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

would have been better storywise, and given Vol'jin something to actually do. Whats he done? Nothing. great war chief.

Well, compared to his predecessor, "nothing" was pretty good!
Maybe he's a fan of smaller government. :P

[Thirstblood]

Who the hell cares about magic vs melee vs ranged rubbish rules, EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! It's a deathmatch...

[Deleted]

In the Warcraft movie they have the scene where Guldan and the other orc fight to the death. Guldan uses his death magic to win, basically breaking the rules and is called a dishonorable cheater(?) if I remember correctly. And in the game Thrall uses his magic to beat Garrosh.

I'm not familiar with the lore. So did Thrall cheat or not? If you watched the movie it would seem that our hero Thrall cheated.

Of course he bloody cheated, so did Garrosh as far as I'm aware, the rules of Mak'gora are:

Fight until dead (Changed by Thrall to be non-lethal yet didn't apply here - which Is ok btw, considering what It was about)
One weapon permitted (Could be blessed by a shaman)
No body armor (Both of them failed on that account)
And no magic (Thrall failed heavily there, and It's shown In Legion how he abused the elements for his own gains and they "Abandon him" as he has to redeem himself)

Mak'gora Is about strenght, that every orc, magic-users or not should have In some reserve or he's not worthy to lead. That's mostly why Gul'dan wasn't leading the Horde himself In the First War cause his strenght wasn't recognized, so he used Blackhand for that. And ofcourse Garrosh being so bulky, a warrior + a Warsong who are I remind you basically spartan-raised and very conquest driven. And he's a Hellscream, so he was pretty much stronger.
On that last count, funny thing he abused the Dreanor ALT elements, yet he's being sorry to the Azeroth ones... different elements, I'm just saying. Elements on various planets aren't bound as one.

[Mormolyce]

I don't know why anyone would care about the rules of the Mak'gora to be honest. Garrosh may have called it a Mak'gora but what leadership was at stake exactly?

It's kind of an outdated and irrelevant custom in the modern Warcraft universe.

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How can the elements be pissed at him, if they were the ones that helped him defeat garrosh in the first place.

After spending half of WoD trying to gain the trust of the Draenor elements.

- - - Updated - - -

Too many people here who doesn't even read into lore comment how "Thrall cheated" because they are on a Thrall hate bandwagon.

People also say that's why the elements abandoned him, because "he cheated!"

No, the elements abandoned Thrall because he used them by force to kill Garrosh. He didn't ask to lend their powers, he just simply took it by force. The elements doesn't give two craps about mortal rituals whether they cheat or not, they just get furious when their powers are being used with force for mere stupid mortal matters.

I'm confused how this applies to the elements of Azeroth though.

[Traveler Voltin]

Magic has been used in duels before.

[Chromeshellking]

Why would the elements on Azeroth care about what he did on Draenor?

Its ritual combat and thrall always valued integrity and honor. How can he still ask the elements for help if he can just 180's values he himself tries to keep?

[Deleted]

Why would the elements on Azeroth care about what he did on Draenor?

They care, because he used the elements to cheat. Why would they help him anylonger when he has proven he is willing to abuse his power?

[masterjc]

In the Warcraft movie they have the scene where Guldan and the other orc fight to the death. Guldan uses his death magic to win, basically breaking the rules and is called a dishonorable cheater(?) if I remember correctly. And in the game Thrall uses his magic to beat Garrosh.

I'm not familiar with the lore. So did Thrall cheat or not? If you watched the movie it would seem that our hero Thrall cheated.

according to game, Thrall has already used or tried to use elemental amgic vs Garrosh
during WOTLK invasion event, Thrall vs Garrosh duel was Mak'Gora and Thrall used lightning there and some other spells several tiems. untill LK invasion interrupted them
second time was duiring SOO raid. where Thrall tried use Elemental magic vs Garrosh who was infused with old god magic. but this wasnot Mak'Gora and Thrall was unable to call elemental magic, because of Dark Shaman
also after Garrosh's defeat, Thrall tried to smash him with Doomhammer, but Varian interrupted him.
next one was in Nagrand, where Thrall issued Mak'gora vs Garrosh.
we can assume that Thrall cheated, because no spells are allowed in Mak'Gora.

BUT
there si big BUT here. in Legion, Thrall gives to player his Doomhammer, because he can NO LONGER USE elemental magic.because elementals refuse to hear him.
according to Drek'Thar, he once tried use elemental amgic to destroy opponents vilalge for vengeance , and elementals disobeyed him too and he lost Shamanic power and in anger became a warlock
Drek'Thar explained, that elementals msut be asked for power and not demand it and elementals refuse give their power for killing and rthat's wha Thrall did. he killed Garrosh using elemental magic. and they became furious and thrall lsot powers.
he will regain powers like Drek'thar did it before

[Quincey]

How can the elements be pissed at him, if they were the ones that helped him defeat garrosh in the first place.

How I understood it from the quest text I've read from beta

He didn't just call on the elements to kill Garrosh like he normally would - he literally FORCED them to do his bidding.

Thrall's a cheating scumbag, I'm liking him more and more <3

Why would the elements on Azeroth care about what he did on Draenor?

It's been proven before that the elements have some connection to each other, even if it isn't direct. The elements on Draenor reacted pretty violently to Garrosh's arrival. They knew at least to some degree that he was a bad un' and it took him manipulating a vision to settle them down.
source: Hellscream Short story or Nobbel's version

[Deleted]

thrall's a little shit after all! hehe, good, i like him better that way...

[Teranzil]

Too many people here who doesn't even read into lore comment how "Thrall cheated" because they are on a Thrall hate bandwagon.

People also say that's why the elements abandoned him, because "he cheated!"

No, the elements abandoned Thrall because he used them by force to kill Garrosh. He didn't ask to lend their powers, he just simply took it by force. The elements doesn't give two craps about mortal rituals whether they cheat or not, they just get furious when their powers are being used with force for mere stupid mortal matters.

Very much this. Whether or not Thrall cheated is irrelevant, he forcefully used the elements for petty purposes which is basically forbidden. The idea is that they imbue the user with strength when asking for aid, which he didn't do, he just straight up rekt Garrosh. The elements were unwilling/reluctant to communicate and cooperate with him afterwards.