Slam is currently useless [PTR]

[Deleted]

WW only beats out Slam in Damage per Rage (including the refund on crit) if Fervor of Battle is taken. The margin isn't that large, so it might or might not invalidate rend in single target situations. Avatar will mostly be a talent for encounters in which burst is king. For relatively frequent AoE or cleave (probably a great deal of all encounters in raids) I am absolutely certain that FoB will be set and forget.

[Deleted]

Currently, Fervor of Battle is the strongest pick, but that's only cuz Slam is under tuned and it hits like a wet noodle. Also, since WW hits 3 times, it has the higher chance to proc Opportunity Strikes, which is the best talent in that tier for ST. I'm expecting Slam dmg buff in next few builds.

[Archimtiros]

Kinda feel like this thread is pointless.

This thread is pointless because 90% of the people in it don't have a clue as to what they're talking about.

[bladeXcrasher]

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Warrior T19 Arms 4P Bonus - Slam, Whirlwind, and Execute critical strike have a 20% additional chance per target hit to reset the cooldown on Colossus Smash.
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Whirlwind hits 3 times, each of those can crit independently, which means it has THREE TIMES the chance to crit vs slam. Which = more CS resets when using WW vs using Slam.

Slam is useless in Legion.

Again, PTR isnt legion, it isnt T19.

[biggerthanpete]

This thread is pointless because 90% of the people in it don't have a clue as to what they're talking about.

I think I love you.

[Deleted]

just because it hits 3 times doesnt mean it has 3-proc-chances per use ...

Nice strawman argument, where did i say it has 3 proc chances per use? Try reading what i wrote, i said it has 3 times the chance TO CRIT vs slam, so it has more chance to proc a CS reset than slam does.

I'm not sure what you're finding so hard to understand here.

[Bigbazz]

Nice strawman argument, where did i say it has 3 proc chances per use? Try reading what i wrote, i said it has 3 times the chance TO CRIT vs slam, so it has more chance to proc a CS reset than slam does.

I'm not sure what you're finding so hard to understand here.

I just had a look at your thread on the EU forum. So let me get this straight

1. You have no high end PVE or PVP experience to speak of, you've done zero raiding and no challenge modes, not even LFR. So nothing shows us you have the experience to understand how talents and abilities can work and can be used to most effect in a practical environment like a specific raid encounter or with a specific raid strategy.

2. You have no hard numbers to back up what you're saying while some of the guys here do. Simcraft Warrior developers are in this thread, some of the best and most knowledgeable players in the world regularly post here.

3. You haven't got beta access and you're basing your whole theory on some garrison dummy testing with a level 100 char and the tooltip of an untested T19 set bonus.


This is just silly, people are always willing to hear you out if you have a point but you're pushing this as some sort of defensive standpoint.

[Archimtiros]

Nice strawman argument, where did i say it has 3 proc chances per use? Try reading what i wrote, i said it has 3 times the chance TO CRIT vs slam, so it has more chance to proc a CS reset than slam does.

I'm not sure what you're finding so hard to understand here.

Very unlikely. That tier set is old, left over from before the most recent Tactician change and will undoubtedly be updated to reflect those changes.

Currently Whirlwind has one chance to proc Tactician per use, regardless of the number of targets hit, because it's based off of the rage cost. Previous to that change, Whirlwind still only had one chance to proc Tactician per target hit, because the chance only rolled on the first of the three hits. Even the tier set does not chance to reflect the updated mechanic, it's unlikely that it would proc off any of the three crit chances, because that multiplies exponentially with each additional target and quickly gets out of hand - 1 target becomes 3 chances, 2 targets becomes 6, 3 targets becomes 9, etc. Instead it's far more likely that it will adhere to prior mechanics and only the first of the three hits will count, if it's a crit, per target hit.

[Warriorsarri]

Also worth mentioning that if the 3roll system where to stay, the Whirlwind legendary would almost guarantied become the best one available, as it would add 2 more hits per WW. I already have a strong feeling it will be exceptionally strong, but we'll have to see what the math tells us.

[Deleted]

Very unlikely. That tier set is old, left over from before the most recent Tactician change and will undoubtedly be updated to reflect those changes.

Until i see an official change to it my point will stand.

Currently Whirlwind has one chance to proc Tactician per use, regardless of the number of targets hit, because it's based off of the rage cost.

First of all, ww costs a static amount of rage, it does not increase in rage cost (increasing the proc chance)....the rage cost is always the same amount and thats what tactian procs off so do not make any similartiies between rage cost and crit chance. They are entirely different mechanics and should not be compared here.

Previous to that change, Whirlwind still only had one chance to proc Tactician per target hit, because the chance only rolled on the first of the three hits. Even the tier set does not chance to reflect the updated mechanic, it's unlikely that it would proc off any of the three crit chances, because that multiplies exponentially with each additional target and quickly gets out of hand - 1 target becomes 3 chances, 2 targets becomes 6, 3 targets becomes 9, etc. Instead it's far more likely that it will adhere to prior mechanics and only the first of the three hits will count, if it's a crit, per target hit.

Nice analogy, however, it’s still speculation.

The 4pc bonus (as it currently stands) couldn’t be written more clearly it’s based off WW crits. It doesn’t say ‘only the 1st hit from WW counts so if you ONLY crit on your 2nd or 3rd hit you’re shit out of luck’.

Fact - 4pc procs on crits...thats all it says 20% chance to proc ON CRITS, FACT ww can crit independently on all 3 hits per usage (higher chance to proc the 4pc than slam). As It stands, WW hits 3 times……first hit no crit………second hit no crit…….third hit I crit PROC COMES ON. 3 times the chance to proc than slam.

Now don’t get me wrong, i am NOT saying that if 2/3 ww hits crit t same target it will proc twice....it will still proc only once PER USAGE AND TARGET HIT..but its a higher proc chance than slam.

Everything I’ve said is simple and factual, every response I’ve received has been either A) speculation on future changes (numbers and 4pc bonus changes) or insults.

Which brings me to my final comment: To everyone insulting me, i don't respond to ad hominems, sorry.

[bladeXcrasher]

Until i see an official change to it my point will stand.



First of all, ww costs a static amount of rage, it does not increase in rage cost (increasing the proc chance)....the rage cost is always the same amount and thats what tactian procs off so do not make any similartiies between rage cost and crit chance. They are entirely different mechanics and should not be compared here.




Nice analogy, however, it’s still speculation.

The 4pc bonus (as it currently stands) couldn’t be written more clearly it’s based off WW crits. It doesn’t say ‘only the 1st hit from WW counts so if you ONLY crit on your 2nd or 3rd hit you’re shit out of luck’.

Fact - 4pc procs on crits...thats all it says 20% chance to proc ON CRITS, FACT ww can crit independently on all 3 hits per usage (higher chance to proc the 4pc than slam). As It stands, WW hits 3 times……first hit no crit………second hit no crit…….third hit I crit PROC COMES ON. 3 times the chance to proc than slam.

Now don’t get me wrong, i am NOT saying that if 2/3 ww hits crit t same target it will proc twice....it will still proc only once PER USAGE AND TARGET HIT..but its a higher proc chance than slam.

Everything I’ve said is simple and factual, every response I’ve received has been either A) speculation on future changes (numbers and 4pc bonus changes) or insults.

Which brings me to my final comment: To everyone insulting me, i don't respond to ad hominems, sorry.

You came in here posting absolutes with no backing, about how on the PTR slam is useless. I reply it isnt, post new t18 bonus', you fly off posting T19 bonus'. You just yesterday edit post to be legion, but you aren't on beta, so again, your data (word, as you didn't collect any data, just observed your combat log...on the PTR) is flawed. Don't post conjecture and your ideas will be meet better.

[Bigbazz]

Grimmace you're speculating on how the T19 will work. Completely untested set bonus and 2 months before the launch and you think you've outwitted the biggest theoerycrafting nut on MMO champion by calling him out on speculation while using speculation as the basis for your "factual" assesment.

Brilliant, a love story to rival Twilight.


Edit : Unexpected Twist, Grimm is on the dev team balancing Warriors.

[Deleted]

It seems there's a highly rated post on the official forums that agrees with me.


See the thread titled: The Might of Stromkar: Arms PVE 7.0 on the warrior section (US forums).


Excerpt

"Tier 3:The Battle Rages On! (Rotation altering)

Fervor of Battle: Whirlwind does 30% increased damage to your primary target.

Rend: Wound the target causing (540% of attack power) bleed damage over 15 seconds. Costs 15 Rage.

Avatar: Transform into a Colossus for 20 seconds, causing you to deal 20% increased damage and removing all roots and snares.

Fervor of Battle is currently the leader on this tier. "


You can all safely uninstall rend and slam.