[Legion] Holy Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

Surge of Light / Trail of Light / Divine Star is probly my favorite talent setup atm. But havent seen what a full Prayer of Mending setup can do.

[Unir]

Am I the only idiot thinking benediction is a strong competitor? Hear me out.

Currently, since the deep artifact talents are unattainable, CoH seems to be the go to talent. However, if we have the PoM trait at 6/6 (35%), we can on average expect 7.69 bounces. Benediction + the other artifact PoM trait seems very good the smaller the group size. It does a similar amount of total healing with Holy Mending if renew is on the targets (not something unlikely if you take Benediction in a small group) with the benefit of not costing any mana and also leaving a few refreshed renews behind. The real advantage is that in many cases PoMs jump pattern means it distributes total healing unevenly across the party, skewed towards tanks, which results in less overhealing.

The only problem is when PoM gets stuck for a long time due to lack of group damage (but then CoH is not very useful in that case either). So the talents will be dictated by incoming damage pattern: burst -> CoH; sustained -> Benediction. Apotheosis is functionally too different to be comparable but I guess fits better for those no raid damage -> then a fuckton of raid damage for a short while type fights, although I feel it clashes with Tranq/DH for that niche.

You can actually toy with all of the artifact traits now by making a character on the pvp beta server. It will start at level 110 with a maxed out artifact and some starter gear.

That's what I did to look at a full artifact holy priest, since I'm considering moving from holy paladin to holy priest for Legion.

There may not be as many grouping opportunities and that sort of thing on the pvp server, I don't know, but you can at least see what it's like and overheal the dummies for a while. (I'm also leveling up a priest on the pve beta server, so I get to play more hands on with it there.)

Ironically, that may not help you look at a PoM build, though. If I recall correctly, you can't even put PoM on a healing dummy much less get it to jump.

[Redfullmoon]

I was testing out my main on the ptr last week i noticed all of my spirit gear turned to versatility and with
multi gone my haste was 29% mastery 27% but with vers being some what good will vers be holys third stat
my current opinion on stat weights for holy is mastery-haste-Vers anyone who has played the beta as holy or
raid tested in beta plz correct me if i'm wrong or give your own theory crafting on what you think.

[Deleted]

Am I the only idiot thinking benediction is a strong competitor? Hear me out.

Currently, since the deep artifact talents are unattainable, CoH seems to be the go to talent. However, if we have the PoM trait at 6/6 (35%), we can on average expect 7.69 bounces. Benediction + the other artifact PoM trait seems very good the smaller the group size. It does a similar amount of total healing with Holy Mending if renew is on the targets (not something unlikely if you take Benediction in a small group) with the benefit of not costing any mana and also leaving a few refreshed renews behind. The real advantage is that in many cases PoMs jump pattern means it distributes total healing unevenly across the party, skewed towards tanks, which results in less overhealing.

The only problem is when PoM gets stuck for a long time due to lack of group damage (but then CoH is not very useful in that case either). So the talents will be dictated by incoming damage pattern: burst -> CoH; sustained -> Benediction. Apotheosis is functionally too different to be comparable but I guess fits better for those no raid damage -> then a fuckton of raid damage for a short while type fights, although I feel it clashes with Tranq/DH for that niche.

I think for some bosses a PoM build will be the best eg. for that wolf in halls of valor. However, im not sure about respecing during a mythic+ run, if thats not possible, then I wouldnt choose benediction. But there are also some interesting raid bosses like cenarius, where I would use that talent, maybe Il'gynoth mythic, some others idk right now.

edit: since you cant choose which legendary drops for you, if you get a "renew one", that might make benediction more desirable.

[secondratetech]

This healing spec looks the most enjoyable. I'm weary of shadow/disc though. Can't decide if I should risk making this my main in legion if I end up not liking the other two specs. It is a shame they gave a prototypical healing spec such a non-typical dps off-spec and didn't try to match their play styles more.

[lcs]

This healing spec looks the most enjoyable. I'm weary of shadow/disc though. Can't decide if I should risk making this my main in legion if I end up not liking the other two specs. It is a shame they gave a prototypical healing spec such a non-typical dps off-spec and didn't try to match their play styles more.

Disc is a healing spec, not a DPS. They just happen to have a toolkit that revolves around producing parts of their healing from DPS.

Shadow is a pretty unique builder-spender (its more builder-spender/maintainer), but not way out there unless you're talking about surrender to madness.

As to if you'll like them, that's really up to you.

[Immortalem]

Well I'll just drop this here, maybe some US guy is willing to post this on US forums, but whatever.

I played a little bit around with holy and got suspicious on the numbers of Echo of Light (EoL).
For instance I tested on PTR, level 100 priest 737, 31% crit, 27% haste, 22% mastery, 4% versa (2740, 2653, 1061, 484) and 9135 Int.

So basic math says if I do a 40.000 heal, my mastery will result in a EoL hot of 6 seconds with 2 ticks of 22%/2 (4400) each, resulting in 8.800 healing via EoL.
This is totally expected behavior since 40.000 * 0.22 = 8.800.

Now we move on to the case of two Flash Heals (FH) casted in chain, without (w/o) a proc of Surge of Light (SoL). With my 27% haste this is two casts of each 1.18 seconds (tooltip).
Each FH is assumed to heal for 40.000. We assume the casts happen in chain w/o delay, thus we assume the world lag as neglectable.
Since we cast faster than 3 seconds (after 3 seconds EoL ticks for the first time in case of a single cast) we basically expect the total heal amount of EoL to double.

Experimental results show that in this case we actually get 3 ticks of each 22%/3 healing, therefore ticks of 80.000 * 0.22 / 3 (5867) which equal ~17.600 in total and thus are 80.000 * 0.22.
Again expected behavior. It can be shown that the hot was extended to 9 seconds which justifies the 3 ticks. The total heal amount is fine.

Now I experienced some behavior in which multiple casts on the same target actually result in lower EoL healing but I will look into that later. For now we will focus on some weird behavior which results in EoL doing 1.5x to 2x the intended healing. (I hope I now got your attention.)

I assume that this behavior can be reproduced in any case in which a second heal instantly follows the first one, w/o cast time, i.e. instant.
In my test case I used FH and Holy Word: Serenity (HW:S).
I tested both cases, healing myself and a training dummy, yet I didn't test with another player. (Didn't have the time.)

We assume FH still to heal 40.000 and HW:S to heal 200.000. We cast FH -> HW:S on 1.) a training dummy 2.) on myself.

1.)
In this case I can produce reliably 2x the intended healing.
Knowing the above expected, and correct behavior we would expect a hot of 9 seconds, therefore 3 ticks of each 240.000 * 0.22 / 3 (17.600) and thus a total of 52.800 EoL healing.
Well I told you we get twice.
What actually happens is something I don't know. I will just describe the phenomena I could observe.
We actually get something like a 9 second EoL hot. But this EoL ticks for 240.000 * 0.22 / 2 (26.400), 4 times ! (what ?).
Yeah the hot ticks three times and for some reason persists even though it's already expired (past 0 seconds) an yields a fourth tick.
So in total we heal for 26.400 * 4 (105.600) with EoL. But 105.600 / 240.000 = 0.44. So yeah we healed double of the expected and correct value. WTF!


2.)
In this case I can reliably produce 1.5x the intended healing, in some cases I couldn't really reproduce I did 2x the intended healing.
It's basically the same, but we can't observe the tick after 0 seconds remaining (btw. the time the dot remains at 0 seconds is definitively a bug).
I just get the first three ticks with 240.000 * 0.22 / 2 (26.400) healing each. In some cases I got a fourth tick almost the same time I got the third tick.
But as said I can't reproduce that.


I hope this Wall of Text isn't too much. But I think that this is a severe bug which can be exploited. As noted earlier I could observe some behavior in which EoL healed less than it's supposed to but didn't look into it for now. I will do this at sometime else, or someone else does it. If this is a repost, then I am sorry, but I couldn't find anything on it and thought that it's worth sharing.

Kind regards,
Immo

[Deleted]

Might I ask some people who have done Mythic dungeons on beta for some advice?

I am currently trying out heroics, but feel like I'm struggling too much on it still to try out Mythic which I feel I should be aiming for atm. People I group up with are constantly hanging around 50% health and dropping. I am struggling to keep people up and it feels like i'm sitting on the tip of my chair trying to keep everyone up alive. I dunno how or if I'm doing something wrong so any advice is welcome pls. I know someone who started doing Mythic at 780ilvl because he found Heroic too easy and boring , so I dunno if it's because Resto Shamans are in a super good spot right now or not...

I got downvoted on a other forum so i'm hoping there are nice people here willing to share advice and all.

[Anastacy]

Nothing can save people from standing in bad stuff or from not interrupting things that are designed to be interrupted (mobs in VH have a lot of such abilities).

Are you, by chance, playing with Trail of Light and using a lot of Flash Heals?

It's hard to give advice without much/any specific information.

[Deleted]

I believe that talent is broke no? I have tested it on myself and a friend and it did not show up in combat logs it healed for the 40%. Unless it does not show up in combat logs, pls correct me if I am mistaken then. I am mainly running with Enlightment, Surge, Divine Star, Circle of Healing and the Naaru talent. I have lvl 14 Artifact weapon with Light of T'uure activated, use those charges whenever preferably with Serenity or a Flash Heal. PoM on cooldown, use Renew as filler on people with low % loss and then Flash as main filler (heal is not enough and is too slow) and needing Divine/Circle or sanctify when needed

[escott410]

I believe that talent is broke no? I have tested it on myself and a friend and it did not show up in combat logs it healed for the 40%. Unless it does not show up in combat logs, pls correct me if I am mistaken then. I am mainly running with Enlightment, Surge, Divine Star, Circle of Healing and the Naaru talent. I have lvl 14 Artifact weapon with Light of T'uure activated, use those charges whenever preferably with Serenity or a Flash Heal. PoM on cooldown, use Renew as filler on people with low % loss and then Flash as main filler (heal is not enough and is too slow) and needing Divine/Circle or sanctify when needed

Yea, there's something wrong w/ Trail of Light. On the PTR if I heal a target w/ Flash Heal and then go to heal another target it not only does not replicate the 40% healing to the previous target but heals the current target for 40% and then continues to heal for 40%. If I swap to a new target it continues the chain again. Effectively reducing you're Flash Heal by 60%.

[Deleted]

Yea, there's something wrong w/ Trail of Light. On the PTR if I heal a target w/ Flash Heal and then go to heal another target it not only does not replicate the 40% healing to the previous target but heals the current target for 40% and then continues to heal for 40%. If I swap to a new target it continues the chain again. Effectively reducing you're Flash Heal by 60%.

Yes, I haven't actually seen that part of the talent yet. I'm hoping no other Holy Priest is running with that talent. I have report that bug now after testing on the dummies and people in the Netherlight Temple. As for me now...I just left a Black Rook Hold dungeon because it became unbearable. The first pack everyone kept staying below 50% I spammed Flash, all my Surge procs and Serenity/Light of T'uure and the other spells to just keep everyone up. It got me to 15% mana and i had to drink, the spiders were no joke either. The tank kept going up and kept going out of sight me trying so hard to keep up at that point. Is this even normal at all? I have done this dungeon before and there I never had to break a sweat...is this really the other people's fault or am I still missing stuff. I am dispelling the stacks on the tank constantly.

I couldn't even breath at all...I'm terrified for mythics more now... And I'm not even a casual person, I'm a raider and have been for many years but i never ran into this much dmg before from one trash pack.

[T0oky]

Yes, I haven't actually seen that part of the talent yet. I'm hoping no other Holy Priest is running with that talent. I have report that bug now after testing on the dummies and people in the Netherlight Temple. As for me now...I just left a Black Rook Hold dungeon because it became unbearable. The first pack everyone kept staying below 50% I spammed Flash, all my Surge procs and Serenity/Light of T'uure and the other spells to just keep everyone up. It got me to 15% mana and i had to drink, the spiders were no joke either. The tank kept going up and kept going out of sight me trying so hard to keep up at that point. Is this even normal at all? I have done this dungeon before and there I never had to break a sweat...is this really the other people's fault or am I still missing stuff. I am dispelling the stacks on the tank constantly.

I couldn't even breath at all...I'm terrified for mythics more now... And I'm not even a casual person, I'm a raider and have been for many years but i never ran into this much dmg before from one trash pack.

It's probably not the best idea to run mythics with 780 item level because it's designed for 810+.

It's also hard to give any advice because mechanics are pretty simple. You just use your Flash Heal as the main ability (ofc with Trail of Light and make sure it's not bugged) and that's basically it. You can hardly heal ppl up to full hp without your Holy Words but the cooldown of HW:Serenity should be about 10-15 seconds if you keep using flash heals. Basically u can forget about Renew since it heals less than Heal and PoM is also useless in 5-man dungeons, when it can just get stuck on someone who does not take damage.

And I would also recommend taking Apotheosis instead of CoH. The thing is that in mythic+ dungeos your group won't take the same damage all the time. So u basically need some kind of burst ability at those packs where u can't heal without strong cds.

[Deleted]

It's probably not the best idea to run mythics with 780 item level because it's designed for 810+.

It's also hard to give any advice because mechanics are pretty simple. You just use your Flash Heal as the main ability (ofc with Trail of Light and make sure it's not bugged) and that's basically it. You can hardly heal ppl up to full hp without your Holy Words but the cooldown of HW:Serenity should be about 10-15 seconds if you keep using flash heals. Basically u can forget about Renew since it heals less than Heal and PoM is also useless in 5-man dungeons, when it can just get stuck on someone who does not take damage.

And I would also recommend taking Apotheosis instead of CoH. The thing is that in mythic+ dungeos your group won't take the same damage all the time. So u basically need some kind of burst ability at those packs where u can't heal without strong cds.

well, I am currently running with 832 ilvl and I am afraid to step even in a normal Mythic dungeon. It was a friend of mine who did Mythic at 780 ilvl because he found Heroics too easy but here I am still stuck at finding Heroic too hard to heal. I am doing best I can obv, and people rarely die but I feel i burn 100% on just merely couple packs, even with Enlightment talent. I am using Flash Heal as my main ability now and i do try to keep renew up here and there because of my Artifact Trait with Prayer of Mending making it heal more.

I just keep thinking... if this group stays at 30% hp all time, then they will be death in Mythic. I do believe they do something wrong, like interrupt or avoiding stuff but I find it happening too much to be a coincidence...

[T0oky]

well, I am currently running with 832 ilvl and I am afraid to step even in a normal Mythic dungeon. It was a friend of mine who did Mythic at 780 ilvl because he found Heroics too easy but here I am still stuck at finding Heroic too hard to heal. I am doing best I can obv, and people rarely die but I feel i burn 100% on just merely couple packs, even with Enlightment talent. I am using Flash Heal as my main ability now and i do try to keep renew up here and there because of my Artifact Trait with Prayer of Mending making it heal more.

I just keep thinking... if this group stays at 30% hp all time, then they will be death in Mythic. I do believe they do something wrong, like interrupt or avoiding stuff but I find it happening too much to be a coincidence...

People in random dungeons can easily die to different stuff and it's not your problem. Enlightment does not save your mana, moreover it increases your mana consumption since you have to use more flash heals that heal 40% less in comparison to Trail of Light. It's really hard to do something wrong.

And even if u go out of mana very very fast, it's a part of dungeon healing style. You can always use food to restore your mana after each pack.

[Gorsameth]

Yes, I haven't actually seen that part of the talent yet. I'm hoping no other Holy Priest is running with that talent. I have report that bug now after testing on the dummies and people in the Netherlight Temple. As for me now...I just left a Black Rook Hold dungeon because it became unbearable. The first pack everyone kept staying below 50% I spammed Flash, all my Surge procs and Serenity/Light of T'uure and the other spells to just keep everyone up. It got me to 15% mana and i had to drink, the spiders were no joke either. The tank kept going up and kept going out of sight me trying so hard to keep up at that point. Is this even normal at all? I have done this dungeon before and there I never had to break a sweat...is this really the other people's fault or am I still missing stuff. I am dispelling the stacks on the tank constantly.

I couldn't even breath at all...I'm terrified for mythics more now... And I'm not even a casual person, I'm a raider and have been for many years but i never ran into this much dmg before from one trash pack.

Was the tank a pug?
A lot of the time problems are easily explained by a bad tank not using their mitigation

[Deleted]

Everything so far has been done with pugs, and I guess it's prob related by tanks and dps not pulling their strength and avoidance however it puts me off for doing mythic because if those tanks are as bad then I'll be biting on my tongue to try keep up and that is what worries me, I have to use GS fair few times during a dungeon run, and most of those are on tanks or myself because i'm so busy healing them up and my screen turns red after i got a aggro on me as, if dps die they die my priority is tank in that case.

I'm gonna test a different healing class on beta soon, so i'll try find all my positive strength again and say let's go go go

[VigilantRose]

I think for some bosses a PoM build will be the best eg. for that wolf in halls of valor. However, im not sure about respecing during a mythic+ run, if thats not possible, then I wouldnt choose benediction. But there are also some interesting raid bosses like cenarius, where I would use that talent, maybe Il'gynoth mythic, some others idk right now.

Given how good Prayer of Mending is in a raid setting, it seems likely that Holy Priests will be casting it on cooldown whether or not they have a 'Prayer of Mending build'. So it's less a matter of concentrating on ProM than it is whether or not you reap the benefits of something you're casting anyway.

Even before the weapon, Benediction has a decent lead over Circle of Healing in terms of potential raw healing. While all sorts of qualitative arguments can be made, you need to start with the recognition that Benediction simply generates more overall healing (at a significantly lower mana cost) than CoH.

Once you pile on the artifact weapon traits - several of which buff a 'Benediction-style' play and none of which favor CoH - the disparity only grows.

It's pretty easy to see that the various drawbacks of Benediction make it weak for 5-mans while they make CoH strong for 5-mans. But for long duration raid fights? The number suggest that your automatic assumption should be Benediction, not CoH.

[Ehrgein]

What talent are you guys going for lvl 90? I've been playing with divine star so far but I don't find it that efficient on dungeons, is it more like a raid kind of talent or am I just expecting too much out of the skill itself?

[Isheria]

I just use divinity for pretty much everything just because it's so crazy good, there are very few situations where divine star and halo are actually better, not to mention they increase mana expenditure quite substantially if you use them often enough. On the other hand divinity simply boosts all your healing and if you're decent enough you can have anywhere from 30-40% uptime and sometimes more.