The honorable samurai is a myth?

[mizeri]

I read somewhere Samurai were kind of assholes that killed lots of peasants/common folk

if the samurais had their way japan would not be what it is today, they had a lot of power over the common folks, i found it pretty funny in that tom cruise movie last samurai, if they had won, japan would still be stuck int he past

[Cosmic Janitor]

Only weeaboos think Samurai's were all "muh honor, muh best weapon in the world"

Not to mention all the romanticizing of katana..

but then you look at all the bullshit people believe about pirates, the medieval times, heck I'm convinced there are tons of misconceptions about Romans, Greeks, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Germans (the old ones). Just take a look at chivalry, which is mostly a military code and has bugger all to do with holding doors open. Lots of that shit is chock full of myths and misrepresentations.

[Easo]

Popculture, anime has done its job.

[Revik]

I always thought that the romanticism of the Samurai came from the story of the 47-Ronin. From this single event stemmed all the myth and legend we now see today.

[Faroth]

I like to think there's some level of truth to it, but not as much as history romanticized.

I mean, a culture so heavily built on honor that you'd commit suicide in an excruciatingly painful way is going to have some level of fact behind the honorable warrior notion. My guess the truth is somewhere in the "samurai were honorable so long as they were being watched" territory. And as others have noted, that honorable action was largely towards those in equal or higher positions, not those below the samurai.

But then again, look at modern times and the differences in culture.

Natural disaster in the US = looting guaranteed.
Natural disaster in Japan = People organize and stand in line and wait (im)patiently for their turn to get supplies or gasoline. Their organized crime groups are usually the first to respond with disaster relief before the government can mobilize. Reporters are always somewhat awed by how organized and civil things are after those sort of events over there.

Just very large difference in culture. Where we grow up with "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" they grow up with "the nail that stands up gets hammered down."

[Bodakane]

It's just amazing that a book could change a society so much.

The Bible says "hi".

[LiiLoSNK]

Sumo wrestlers were hella honorable. Everyone else were back stabbers and cheats.

[Wildtree]

The Bible says "hi".

or lately
"The Art of the Deal".

[Kallisto]

The idea of honor in warfare is a myth.

The more I look at battle and war the more I realise honor is just a code word to make yourself feel better when you lose.

[Powerogue]

Childhood ruined.

The irony here is staggering, considering the romanticizing was done based on Arthurian legend, which was also a romanticized version of mercenaries who would terrorize peasants from time to time.

[Mihalik]

The honourable Samurai is a myth. But no more than the honourable Knight is one.

The thing is that we have a tendency to project our biases and standards on people of ages past.

The chivalrous knight never existed in the sense we understand it. But it existed within the moral framework of its time.

Disembowling a peasant for shits and giggles and raping and mutilating his daughter wouldn't have been considered unchivalrous but being rude at the king's table by letting a fart go or executing a nobleman who murdered 500 peasants for fun would have been considered dishonorable to no end.

We need to stop projecting our values on ages past and fetishizing something that never was.

But you needn't go so far back in history to see this phenomenon. It is enough to look at how some people fawn over the American Confederacy, or the pre Segregation 1950's or the pre EU "Golden Age".

Times that never were. At least not as we imagine them.

- - - Updated - - -

The more I look at battle and war the more I realise honor is just a code word to make yourself feel better when you lose.

Such codes of conduct are created and nominally enforced because if you ever happen to be on the losing side you don't want to find yourself completely at the victor's mercy.

[Noradin]

You don't win fights with honor, you win them with dirty tactics.

Yes, honor is 'useless' in fights, it is for afterwards that you need it.
Cannot have diplomacy without honor.

[Mihalik]

It's just amazing that a book could change a society so much.

I read this one historical article how Ivanhoe, a fictional medieval story, was widely read by Confederate soldiers during the US Civil War and it had an impact on soldiers, changing the culture somewhat, more honorable and other knight like stuff. Well Ivanhoe knight like stuff.

Homer's Illiad.

The Bible

The Koran.

Livre de Chevalry

The Wealth of Nations

On the Origin of Species.

The Communist Manifesto.

Some books off the top of my head that brought seismic cultural changes.

[Deleted]

Yes, honor is 'useless' in fights, it is for afterwards that you need it.
Cannot have diplomacy without honor.

Not quite, the idea of rules governing war is an old one and it is mainly to do with preventing mutual destruction.

But yeah, every soldier I've ever met has been a fascist bastard, without the balls to kill people without an authority figure condoning it.

[Beazy]

I always thought Samurai and Ninja were dishonorable sell swords. Traditionalist, but not honorable.

[Unholyground]

Homer's Illiad.

The Bible

The Koran.

Livre de Chevalry

The Wealth of Nations

On the Origin of Species.

The Communist Manifesto.

Some books off the top of my head that brough seismic cultural changes.

It is Quran

[Mihalik]

It is Quran

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Koran

Both spellings work.