Will We See Difficult Dungeons on Launch?

[Sencha]

I guess you never did them in blues. with 4 others in blues

I sure did. I just didn't pug.

Was pretty easy with guildies in blues.

With random people you can't get anything done, except LFR.

[judgementofantonidas]

One doesn't need to be on a controlled substance to have a completely delusional interpretation of reality.

But thank you for basically admitting you were high on *something* which is why you came up with a response that comes with no evidence whatsoever and tried to pass it off as reality, when I didn't even so much as hint to anything regarding "controlled substance(s)".

your insistence on delusion in the face of experienced fact speaks for itself.

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I sure did. I just didn't pug.

Was pretty easy with guildies in blues.

With random people you can't get anything done, except LFR.

and LFR is even questionable.

[Deleted]

Why do those people still exist after introducing of mythic dungeons?!?!?!

Some players appear to be threatened by parts of the game that are easy mode. It's evident they are not the best players around because you rarely see the top guilds complaining about LFR existing. It's probably the archetypal case of being defensive about something you believe it's inherent in you.

[RedGamer030]

The difficult dungeons at launch will be the Mythic Dungeons. I do not expect the Heroic Dungeons to be as difficult as Cataclysm Heroic Dungeons pre-nerf (rest in peace) but be more equivalent to Warlords of Draenor Heroic Dungeons instead, and Mythic+ Dungeons will not be available until the Emerald Nightmare releases about a month after launch.

[Deleted]

Basic mythic will also not be a big deal. This time around mythic/heroic and challenge mode kinda mesh. While mythic will be used purely for progressing the "challenge mode" part of it, it will be also a regular path to gearing so expect to see a lot of +2 and +4 gear farming which should be a slightly harder version of old heroic.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Cata were not really difficult at all, just a lot of people did not know the mechanics. Really with some dungeons even in WOD people really still don't understand some of the mechanics; like in Sky Reach or Grim-rail Depot are some examples. I am interested in seeing how the more difficult Mythics will play out.

PvE is all about knowing mechanics, if you wipe in a dungeon over and over while learning the mechanics then that means the dungeon is difficult, and that was the case with cata at launch. Saying cata dungeons werent difficult because people didnt know the mechanics is silly, that applies to all pve content, even mythic raiding is a joke once you know the fights and have the required gear...

[PosPosPos]

your insistence on delusion in the face of experienced fact speaks for itself.

By "Experienced fact" you mean your personal singular anecdote in your own made up pseudo-reality, sure.

You don't get to use your single account to make sweeping statements that it was true across the board, now that is delusional.

[Raidenwins]

Most people don't give a shit. People actually being expected to try in heroic dungeons? Forget it. Thing of the past. Everything in the game is face roll easy until mythic raid. Else they wouldn't be able to keep as many subs as they can. Not saying this is a bad thing... More subs is better for the game. This is just the way it is.

[Raiju]

Cata were not really difficult at all, just a lot of people did not know the mechanics. Really with some dungeons even in WOD people really still don't understand some of the mechanics; like in Sky Reach or Grim-rail Depot are some examples. I am interested in seeing how the more difficult Mythics will play out.

Cata was difficult since unless you had a paladin healer the healer was oom in 4~ major heals. That largely meant healer simply couldn't afford to give big heals to the non-tank, and avoid aoe healing where possible. Suddenly damage you weren't concerned about was relevant.

That and they nerfed them like 2 weeks in (which for many was after you started to have a healer able to sustain mana)

[Sodka]

Here we go talking bullshit.

Cataclycm dungeons were hard for the gear you started running them, for the first week of launch or so, before the nerfs. Even hardcore raiders had to resort to 'creative play' like the healer and tank taunting boss across the room over and over again to gain extra time since he was enraged, or healer was oom (very common occurrence). And then the nerfhammer hit them, and they became laughable.

Also, comparing them to current WoD heroics at launch is absurd. They were LEAPS AND BOUNDS apart in difficulty.

As a healer I honestly did not feel that the Cata dungeons were that difficult, at first maybe trying to learn the mechanics, but after running them over and over again i did not really find them all too difficult. The only ones I REALLY hated here Grim Batol and Shadowfang keep. Mostly because people just did understand the boss fights and it just turned into a wipe fest.

[Deleted]

My experience on the beta - any of the Dungs become a little challenge from mythic 7 + but I can already see the random groups are going to love playing with the invisible walls in Vault.

[judgementofantonidas]

By "Experienced fact" you mean your personal singular anecdote in your own made up pseudo-reality, sure.

You don't get to use your single account to make sweeping statements that it was true across the board, now that is delusional.

The 600 active member guild at that time is enough for me to not play word games with you any longer. If you think it was any more than slightly challenging you live in a fantasy land that you should really get professional help for.

[Deleted]

Most people don't give a shit. People actually being expected to try in heroic dungeons? Forget it. Thing of the past. Everything in the game is face roll easy until mythic raid.

Huh? Challenge Modes/new mythic keystone dungeons are pretty challenging on the highest ranks. Did you run Challenge Modes at the launch of WoD? (they were pretty tough, especially with the crappy trinkets of the time and the lower ilevel than the cap)

[Leblue]

The difficult dungeons will be behind a bit of a gear wall in the form of mythic/mythic+ but will be away from the "push button get group" function of the LFD. I personally enjoyed the cataclysm heroics in their early state (before the nerfs) and generally had success, but I count myself fortunate because I had enough groups to see what could easily happen with as few as one not so great player (I'm at about 50/50 on pug and premade dungeon groups for cata heroics). As others have said, normal dungeons are probably a bit harder than heroics if for no other reason you don't really outlevel them so its harder to outgear them outside of using a premade 100 to queue up for them.

Those who want the more difficult dungeon challenge are capable of chasing after them with enough of a barrier to entry in the form of creating your own group to do them.

[Taeldorian]

Is this before or after the rose tinted glasses?

You can go back and find all the complaints if you want but the 3 cata dungeons (WoE and the other 2) were overtuned when they were released. They posed difficulty to pugs and eventually were nerfed but for a decent amount of time they were somewhat challenging especially towards pugs.

Obviously there are people that found it easy and those who found it hard. They were nerfed later on which made them a cake walk but in the gear you started in they were somewhat challenging.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Unlikely. It looks as if all of the difficulty for dungeons is being placed into Mythic dungeons, which is better than simply having hard dungeons in the first place. Running with randoms through an unnecessarily difficult dungeon would be a buzzkill for dungeons overall. The difficulty is better suited in an area where you need to build specific groups to tackle the dungeon instead of random people.

[Kickbuttmario]

Either you're ignorant or you never was there during cata launch. Don't talk out your backside.

but they weren't. i was shaman healer and would oom if ppl took more dmg

[Lady Mormont]

Mythic yes, normal and heroic you can ignore mechanics and kill things pretty much.

[Kickbuttmario]

PvE is all about knowing mechanics, if you wipe in a dungeon over and over while learning the mechanics then that means the dungeon is difficult, and that was the case with cata at launch. Saying cata dungeons werent difficult because people didnt know the mechanics is silly, that applies to all pve content, even mythic raiding is a joke once you know the fights and have the required gear...

but that doesn't make it difficult. knowing the mechanics didn't change jack squat. the real challenge came from executing the encounter with said mechanics. It's why Cata and TBC heroics were hell for specific people. Because you needed specific comps to complete it, at least in TBC. In Cata, 1 dispel and 1 interupter, made the fights so much easier.

[PosPosPos]

You can go back and find all the complaints if you want but the 3 cata dungeons (WoE and the other 2) were overtuned when they were released. They posed difficulty to pugs and eventually were nerfed but for a decent amount of time they were somewhat challenging especially towards pugs.

Obviously there are people that found it easy and those who found it hard. They were nerfed later on which made them a cake walk but in the gear you started in they were somewhat challenging.

/slowclap

Congratulations, you only completely missed the point.

Please go back and re-read what exactly I quoted.

I am not in beta, but Cataclysm heroics were not impossible. They were enjoyable and the challenge they provided bound communitites together and actually encouraged interaction between players. I hope the same happens but I doubt that. If anything, I guess Mythic 6+ will be comparable to Cata heroics