EU Army on way? EU cannot rely on NATO and needs new defence policy...

[Kalis]

An EU Army (or as it would be called because the UK is leaving, the French Army) seems a bit pointless to me as we have NATO for collective defence.

It smacks of EU federalism that will tear the EU apart, as a large portion of EU Citizens are opposed to federalism. I think the EU has gone a bit bonkers, even the UK leaving has not given some of them the wake up call that they need.

[nonameelf]

There was an article on Euronews about this.
Needless to say, I totally agree. NATO is out of control.

Wouldn't a united Europe army be a member of NATO? NATO would be kind of small if all the EU nations left it as part of creating the EU army.

[Ulmita]

An EU Army (or as it would be called because the UK is leaving, the French Army) seems a bit pointless to me as we have NATO for collective defence.

It smacks of EU federalism that will tear the EU apart, as a large portion of EU Citizens are opposed to federalism. I think the EU has gone a bit bonkers, even the UK leaving has not given some of them the wake up call that they need.

Nahh, an EU army would be an awesome step towards a more unified Europe. EU can not survive as it is, it needs to evolve and federalization is a good direction.

You were the only nation in EU that was threatening with veto but now that you are gone the way is open.

[Deleted]

http://m.euronews.com/en/336835/

Article talking about it.

[nonameelf]

Nahh, an EU army would be an awesome step towards a more unified Europe. EU can not survive as it is, it needs to evolve and federalization is a good direction.

You were the only nation in EU that was threatening with veto but now that you are gone the way is open.

Good luck getting all those different cultures to be unified under a single rule. Even countries like Spain are having issues with people like the Catalonians wanting independence, so I'm not sure how or why people expect all of Europe to be unified and everything to go perfectly.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't a united Europe army be a member of NATO? NATO would be kind of small if all the EU nations left it as part of creating the EU army.

As the article above mentions, NATO is totally missing the point. An united EU army would look after our own business and our own interests. We can then be members of NATO if needs arise.

[Ulmita]

The issue is that many EU countries just wont swallow NATO / USA propaganda anymore. We aint going to war with Russia because USA wants it. We aint going to war with Russia just because USA makes NATO provocative.

Italian PM made it clear. Greek PM made it clear. Hungarian PM made it clear. French voting to life Russian sanctions made it clear. Bulgaria doesn't want anything with that. And the list goes on and on and on.

USA has no allies, just vessels. NATO is an instrument of USA which it uses for its own external politics. People have started to wake up, finally. Now that USA's main puppet has voted to leave EU it is time to take control and build a peaceful, democratic and powerful empire; A EU superstate.

If USA continues to push for destruction like that, you will see countries dropping of NATO like flies. You will see China being forced to ally with Russia. You will see alliances forming that will endanger peace and you will see the dropping of the dollar to accelerate even more.

[Daerio]

So you think many small governments, with multiple completely redundant bureaucracies unto themselves, is more cost efficient than one large bureaucracy? Especially considering one large entity can negotiate from a far more advantageous position than multiple small entities can individually.

They're not redundant if they're not covering the same area.

Imagining that larger government means better efficiency is total LULZ.

Not based on reality in any way, shape or form.

[Kalis]

Nahh, an EU army would be an awesome step towards a more unified Europe. EU can not survive as it is, it needs to evolve and federalization is a good direction.

You were the only nation in EU that was threatening with veto but now that you are gone the way is open.

The countries in darker green have more people in favour of a federal EU than against it...



That is ten other nations (besides the UK) who are opposed to a federal EU and pushing it will cause more nations to follow the UK and cause huge unrest within Europe. It staggers me that some people are so keen to push for an idea that is so divisive.

[Machismo]

This EU army, are they going to have white flags issued to all French soldiers?

[Ulmita]

The countries in darker green have more people in favour of a federal EU than against it...



That is ten other nations (besides the UK) who are opposed to a federal EU and pushing it will cause more nations to follow the UK and cause huge unrest within Europe. It staggers me that some people are so keen to push for an idea that is so divisive.

Federalization isn't happening in a day, or in a year. Its a big process that needs foundations to succeed. It is in the interest of everyone to drop borders, languages and religion barriers (in general). Starting by dropping the borders is a good step.

It will take time but its absolutely vital.

Lastly seeing that UK is out, the dark green represents the huge majority of EU GDP. Thats a good start by itself.

[nonameelf]

The countries in darker green have more people in favour of a federal EU than against it...


That is ten other nations (besides the UK) who are opposed to a federal EU and pushing it will cause more nations to follow the UK and cause huge unrest within Europe. It staggers me that some people are so keen to push for an idea that is so divisive.

Looks like the non-NATO nations would be against it with some extras thrown in.

As the article above mentions, NATO is totally missing the point. An united EU army would look after our own business and our own interests. We can then be members of NATO if needs arise.

Would Europe even have the man power to challenge Russia without NATO? Since this is obviously about Russia.

Federalization isn't happening in a day, or in a year. Its a big process that needs foundations to succeed. It is in the interest of everyone to drop borders, languages and religion barriers (in general). Starting by dropping the borders is a good step.

So, it's in their best interest to erase their culture?

[Ulmita]

Would Europe even have the man power to challenge Russia without NATO?

Definitely. A united Europe will be a super power of no equal.

NATO is over estimated.

From the European NATO countries, only the UK, and France have the capability to power project (to a small degree) to the Russian borders. Italy might be able to send some troops but extremely limited.

The majority of EU NATO have no army worth of mentioning.

[Machismo]

This is more of an augment than anything else. It does nothing to undermine NATO, and actually pushes to aid int with additional funding. Americans would likely support this, since it means their allies are footing a larger bill for defense spending.

[Deleted]

I'm with you OP. The more steps to union the better. I'm sick of little useless states quarreling. I want a united and strong europe. If the UK doesn't want part of it, it's their problem.

[nonameelf]

Definitely. A united Europe will be a super power of no equal.

NATO is over estimated.

From the European NATO countries, only the UK, and France have the capability to power project (to a small degree) to the Russian borders. Italy might be able to send some troops but extremely limited.

The majority of EU NATO have no army worth of mentioning.

So, vastly increasing military spending for all countries involved, which they seem currently reluctant to do as NATO members.

I'm with you OP. The more steps to union the better. I'm sick of little useless states quarreling. I want a united and strong europe. If the UK doesn't want part of it, it's their problem.

You think a stronger union would end quarreling? That's cute.

[Ulmita]

I'm with you OP. The more steps to union the better. I'm sick of little useless states quarreling. I want a united and strong europe. If the UK doesn't want part of it, it's their problem.

Amen to that.

[Aggrophobic]

We don't want to do it anymore, go pay for your own shit, thank you.

Playing "world police" has been good for the US and you guys have everything to lose by stepping back from it.
Your call of course but I'd rather have you guys looking over my shoulder than Mr Putin.

On topic: I'd be ok with a EU army. Makes sense too me.

[I Push Buttons]

They're not redundant if they're not covering the same area.

Imagining that larger government means better efficiency is total LULZ.

Not based on reality in any way, shape or form.

I said cost efficient, friend.

In the same sense that single payer is more cost efficient.

One hierarchy instead of several. One party negotiating on behalf of everyone instead of many. If you don't think a massive European superstate could receive far better bids and negotiate far better deals from that position of power, thus lowering the cost of said things, then it is you who is deluded, friend.

And there wouldn't be any redundancy lol? One large European state would need 27 fully functional completely autonomous governments and armies? Lol...

[Ulmita]

So, vastly increasing military spending for all countries involved, which they seem currently reluctant to do as NATO members.

It depends how you see it. The defense industry of Europe will benefit a lot if this ever happens as we will swift money from USA to EU for arming.
So it might come not as expensive as you think.

Lastly, you can't rely to USA to protect you and then ask them to be neutral when it comes to your business.
We need to be able to protect our borders ALONE. Don't you agree?