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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    No I didn't mean about mana, I meant more about atonement distribution. For burst healing i'll have anywhere from 12-18 Atonements out (Rapture is amazing) but for sustained low damage I'm not sure what's a good rough figure in a 20m. I'm guessing 5-6 which puts me right at the PW: R threshold.
    Oh yeah, that's just because of the weird way Plea works where there's no real medium-hps amount. You either have a low number of Atonements or a lot, and there's no way to sit at 8 or 9 without using PWR, but once you use 1 PWR you might as well go all the way because it's more efficient at that point. I personally don't like the ramping Plea cost mechanism because it forces that dynamic, but it is something we have to work around.

  2. #242
    I have been playing a Disc priest since Wrath and I can honestly say this prepatch was the biggest adjustment I've had to make in my play style, but that's all it was... an adjustment. Having to pay attention to things that I never really had to track before was the only real change. It took healing a Mythic dungeon to work out all the bugs to get my play style correct and working. I was hesitant at first with the new way Disc works, but I can honestly say it has grown on me and I'm really starting to like it. I raided last night and was able to keep up with and sometimes beat the other healers; I was also able to do as much damage as the tanks. I can't stress enough how much of a great thing that is for Mythic progression. That extra bit of dps can make the difference between a boss kill or wipe on progression. If this is something you don't understand by now, you haven't raided in a progression style guild or raid. I'm not sure what happened to WoW players, but it used to be mandatory for raiders to watch videos, research their class and read raid guides. Maybe it's time people started getting back to that instead of constantly complaining. Learn to adjust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Speaking of this particular part, what do you guys do where there's low steady damage? Like archimonde Desecrate pillar or Fel Hellfire Storm on Manno? I've just been tossing out atonements and DPS'ing a bit and Halo'ing on CD. It doesn't feel entirely right.
    As for how I deal with low steady damage, I mostly dps with working in pleas or PW:R along with bubbles on the tanks. There's not much else to do except help with the extra bit of dps and every bit helps. It may not seem entirely right at this point, but it will in Legion. At least it did for me while I was in the beta #manamatters.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Krstl View Post
    I'm not sure what happened to WoW players, but it used to be mandatory for raiders to watch videos, research their class and read raid guides. Maybe it's time people started getting back to that instead of constantly complaining. Learn to adjust.
    In a nutshell, complacency is what happened. I know I still do all of that and constantly research my class and all of it's specs to make sure I'm up to date on what the newest strategy is for it.
    As for how I deal with low steady damage, I mostly dps with working in pleas or PW:R along with bubbles on the tanks. There's not much else to do except help with the extra bit of dps and every bit helps. It may not seem entirely right at this point, but it will in Legion. At least it did for me while I was in the beta #manamatters.
    It just feels a bit weird. Good to know that I'm doing what most other people are doing. Hopefully with the new damage patterns in Legion disc will still be good. I know Ursoc will be a great fight for us since there's that massive AoE damage fairly often.

    At this point I'm maining my priest as holy/disc (guild needs me to heal in legion, woo!) and going to main alt a monk as I just love MW's bursty healing style.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Atharaxie View Post
    I found Timewalking dungeon harder than (nerfed) mythic dungeon. Pit Of Saron was a nightmare with a Blood DK 690.
    WOTLK Timewalking is overtuned, IMO. BC Timewalking was fine, but yes, in WOTLK Timewalking, tanks are getting demolished, and certain bosses are horribly bugged, such as the final boss of Pit of Saron.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    2 problems.
    Heroic HFC is a joke damage wise and shouldn't be used to estimate anything.
    We're balanced at 110, not 100 so take everything in pre patch with a giant grain of salt.
    Just saying; I'm managing to keep up with other healers no problem, even when they're 20 ilvls higher than me. This whole "disc sucks" meme needs to die.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    WOTLK Timewalking is overtuned, IMO. BC Timewalking was fine, but yes, in WOTLK Timewalking, tanks are getting demolished, and certain bosses are horribly bugged, such as the final boss of Pit of Saron.
    There's a whole thread on Pit of Saron actually, so definitely not just disc.
    Just saying; I'm managing to keep up with other healers no problem, even when they're 20 ilvls higher than me. This whole "disc sucks" meme needs to die.
    Yeah, but my point still stands. This is pre patch. I can outheal 730 healers on my 709 monk with ease because I know what I'm doing. Hell, I can do more healing on my monk (at times) than I can on my priest depending on the fight.

  6. #246
    Deleted
    I did 2 timewalking dungeons so far, both were pure faceroll. Didn't even have to use Shadow Mend more than maybe twice per boss fight. No Pit of Sauron yet, however. My gear is trash.

  7. #247
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Well then let me give you my impression.

    If you wanted to ignore Archangel as Disc or spec Clarity of Will for every fight, you could do that and most people wouldn't even notice because you would still be there spamming your PW:Ss. Many people ignored Archangel entirely (those delicious complaints about how attacking enemies while also healing allies being somehow much harder than in WoD)
    That made me laugh, all of my ranks in top 3 on different fights back in the day as disc were with little or none Archangel usage ))

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    There's a whole thread on Pit of Saron actually, so definitely not just disc.
    And it's more than just Pit of Saron. On both Gundrak and Halls of Lightning, the tank was getting his face melted and I was having to spam him nonstop just to keep him alive. On trash pulls of 3-4 mobs.

    Hell, even those fish in the water in Gundrak, were smacking me for like 10% of my health every hit. What the fuck.
    Last edited by anon5123; 2016-07-27 at 06:52 PM.

  9. #249
    Deleted
    I just finished Gundrak. The fish in the water that tank skipped and I couldn't were the most difficult aspect of the dungeon. After I convinced him to come down to tank them, the rest of the dungeon was OK.

    There were a couple of trash packs where the tank was dunked for like 75% health instantly but he was a DK so I'm not sure how accurately that represents the situation. One or two Shadow Mends were nevertheless enough to stabilize and all the actual bosses were completely faceroll.

    For that dungeon overall my healing was 41% atonement 23% power word:shield 20% shadow mend so it's not like I had to constantly spam shadow mend non stop even though some trash required it. I wasn't using Grace.

  10. #250
    Pretty much only used as a filler spell if every else happens to be on cooldown (and your plea stacks are high).

    It's highly useful on tanks though due to them pretty much taking instant damage to remove the dot debuff. Also good to place on players with a ticking damage debuff that will eat Shadow Mend's debuff instantly

  11. #251
    Dreadlord Rife's Avatar
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    How hard they are to heal has more to do with what tank class you get and how good they are than how good of a disc you are.

    Some tanks require SM spam on every pull.
    Some require nothing more than one PW:S and Atonement healing for each pull.

    Pit of Saron is bugged.

  12. #252
    Thanks for the answer guys, but I still couldn't shake of the 'vigorously defending' the spec feeling. I really hope I'll eat my words, as I've played Disc for years, and even though they've butchered the spec, I still want to play it. But the general sentiment so far seems to be 'don't bring Disc' and most people probably won't bother convincing everyone that they in fact don't suck all that much.

  13. #253
    Deleted
    General sentiment by whom?

    My prediction is this: Disc will be absolutely mandatory. The exponential scaling with gear is absurd and it seems like Legion has significantly higher secondary stat scaling than WoD does.



    I wonder what I'm missing when I'm reading "disc is bad" everywhere while I personally am thinking "Disc is incredible, I really hope they don't nerf it so i can abuse it".
    Last edited by mmoc06f0881615; 2016-07-28 at 01:27 AM.

  14. #254
    Dreadlord Rife's Avatar
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    Disc is going to go into Legion with a horrible stigma unfortunately.

    I've yet to see anything positive being said in-game regarding Disc. My guildies and RL think Disc is garbage and i'd otherwise call them pretty knowledgeable people.

    Once logs come out from early heroic and mythic progression then people who keep an eye on the meta will see Discs are legit good, borderline OP in the hands of a skilled player.

    Most opinions on the relative strengths of healers are currently being shaped in 742 M HFC where bosses die in 2 mins or less and all other healers are just spamming their most expensive spells and not giving a shit about mana or spell selection. That won't be the case in Legion.

  15. #255
    People that don't play Disc only know what they see from other Disc players, and if there's anything I'm 100% confident of about Disc, it's that the vast majority of people playing the spec are actually doing it very, very wrong and for some reason refuse to even try playing the correct way.

    Trying to get people to follow the simple concept of using their Flash Heal equivalent with a talented 30% increase to it for 5 mans in alpha, beta, and the past week has been like pulling teeth. People said they literally couldn't finish normal mode Legion dungeons and after a few hours of beating around the bush, they'd finally describe their playstyle as trying to heal primarily via Smite, and then they'd adamantly argue against doing the obvious: using the Flash Heal type spell when your tank is getting wrecked.

    Raid healing has been similar, with every possible variant of spell combinations being argued to the death as what you're "supposed to do" except the obvious: use the one that puts Atonement on multiple people instead of just one person and use it a lot before you want to heal for a lot and then do damage. For some reason single target healing, refusing to actually spend mana when you want to do the same HPS as everyone that is spending mana, and outright denial that Disc even can do that level of raid healing all seem like more attractive ideas than using the multi-Atonement button when you want to heal multiple people.

    ___

    Imagine you're playing with a WoD Disc. All they ever use is Flash Heal, seemingly ignoring that Power Word: Shield is the single highest HPS spammable ability in the game. It goes terribly because of course it would. The next Disc priest you end up in a group with lets the tank die because he's Penancing the enemy mobs instead of the tank who is getting destroyed. You don't really know what's happening, just that the tank keeps dying and it's getting frustrating. You see yet another Disc Priest, and you already feel like the spec is probably terrible because the last 2 were so awful, and this one is so ridiculous that he busts out Saving Grace and thinks he should just spam that whenever anybody gets low. Finally on one last run you get another Disc Priest that starts spamming Holy Nova and everybody dies, so you leave the group because of course it was a waste of time, it was a Disc Priest, right?

    You finally come across someone that's actually figured out that the secret to Disc is really just to ignore everything that isn't Archangel and PW:S, but that's stupid and wrong because <insert reason here> and Disc is still bad because if it was that simple, why did were the other four so bad?

    ___

    So yeah, everyone thinks Disc is bad and does like at least 20% less healing than everyone else because they have mostly only ever played with bad Disc Priests and don't even remember the time they got lucky.

  16. #256
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Trying to get people to follow the simple concept of using their Flash Heal equivalent with a talented 30% increase to it for 5 mans in alpha, beta, and the past week has been like pulling teeth. People said they literally couldn't finish normal mode Legion dungeons and after a few hours of beating around the bush, they'd finally describe their playstyle as trying to heal primarily via Smite, and then they'd adamantly argue against doing the obvious: using the Flash Heal type spell when your tank is getting wrecked.

    Raid healing has been similar, with every possible variant of spell combinations being argued to the death as what you're "supposed to do" except the obvious: use the one that puts Atonement on multiple people instead of just one person and use it a lot before you want to heal for a lot and then do damage. For some reason single target healing, refusing to actually spend mana when you want to do the same HPS as everyone that is spending mana, and outright denial that Disc even can do that level of raid healing all seem like more attractive ideas than using the multi-Atonement button when you want to heal multiple people.
    Both of these seem to be correct, yes. One thing to keep in mind is that Barrier is terrible for farm content and another thing to keep in mind is that Disc actually deals damage. I see so many people ignoring this aspect for some reason. In the logs for a HFC normal pug raid I did today, on most bosses I generally placed in 75th-80th percentile for Disc in DPS and this is at ilvl 708 with no tier set of any kind. I also constantly make mistakes as I've only been playing this spec for a couple of days and barely even remembered any of the fights.


    I can queue for a mythic dungeon and keep hearing that disc is completely broken and unviable or not functional at all time after time even if we faceroll everything.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasoy View Post
    Regarding the Fishbrul Special, it does 16,990 damage per bolt for a total of four bolts (at least it does on a target dummy). So let's say your Atonement does about 50% damage to heal ratio that would be 33,980 heals to all Atonement targets.

    I tried attacking a target dummy (take this with a grain of salt since your damage rotation in an actual dungeon will never match up to simply attacking a target dummy) but it did about 3.6% of my total damage - about as much damage as my AOE damage trinket on a single target. My single target trinket was much higher at 10.2% (even more than SW:P at 100% uptime).
    So I would assume that 3.6% damage, which also converts to atonement healing, is probably worth having over what I assume is only 1% haste from food buffs? As a panda maybe 2% haste is better, idk?

    For the record, Fel Lash, the proc from Felmouth Frenzy, scales with haste (2+haste RPPM) and according to the wowhead comments also seems to scale with ilvl or spellpower, and also benefits from masteries like the WoD arcane and demonology mastery, and I would assume the Unholy DK mastery (Fel lash is shadow damage). I would imagine the Fishbrul Special proc works exactly the same, except is fire damage not shadow.
    Disc Priests: Just 2 mana trinkets away from becoming Withered

  18. #258
    Can you post your logs, Totaltotemic? I want to look at them.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Rife View Post
    Disc is going to go into Legion with a horrible stigma unfortunately.

    I've yet to see anything positive being said in-game regarding Disc. My guildies and RL think Disc is garbage and i'd otherwise call them pretty knowledgeable people.

    Once logs come out from early heroic and mythic progression then people who keep an eye on the meta will see Discs are legit good, borderline OP in the hands of a skilled player.

    Most opinions on the relative strengths of healers are currently being shaped in 742 M HFC where bosses die in 2 mins or less and all other healers are just spamming their most expensive spells and not giving a shit about mana or spell selection. That won't be the case in Legion.

    My dilemma was go Disc or Holy first to max out my artifact. Disc has a bad stigma but it's actually a good spec. The problem is Holy is better. Why go Disc when you don't really need to?

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Copenhagen23 View Post
    My dilemma was go Disc or Holy first to max out my artifact. Disc has a bad stigma but it's actually a good spec. The problem is Holy is better. Why go Disc when you don't really need to?
    But why go Holy when you could be Druid or Shaman and do even better ?
    Thanksfully, this game isn't all about minmaxing every thing a there is room for diversity and personnal preferences.
    Unless you play for the server first, the wise choice is to pick a spec with the gameplay you really enjoy.

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