[7.0] Legion Discipline Priest Guide and Discussion

[Vendanry]

In a progression Mythic raid would having 2 disc priests be good or would it be a bad idea that would damage the overall team?

[Deleted]

In a progression Mythic raid would having 2 disc priests be good or would it be a bad idea that would damage the overall team?

it would most likely damage the overall team.

[lcs]

In a progression Mythic raid would having 2 disc priests be good or would it be a bad idea that would damage the overall team?

It probably depends on who would replace the Disc if you went with only one, the composition of the other healers, the composition of the rest of the raid, the relative skill of the two discs vs the relative skill of 1 disc and a different healer, the particular mythic bosses you are progressing on, the time at which you're progressing mythic (are you world first?), the lag each healer is experiencing to the server and the current weather forecast in Irvine.

Without all the above information, it isn't really possible to say. Skill is most important, which composition being second (a first resto shaman is going to bring more than a second disc for example).

[ryan11d7]

How insignificant are the tunes that we just received? The balance to 1.5 ratio for mastery and Penance cost?

[PosPosPos]

I'm not having a problem with that, personally. I have no problem with letting peoples' toons die for their mistakes if I cannot help it anyway.
If that is what it takes to stop them long enough so I can drink in peace then so be it.

I was just pointing out that it is easy to run out of mana every pull in a random group when one does not know how to play the spec, and since most people try new specs in dungeons first before trying in a raid that might lead to misinformation on both sides.

Exactly, which doesn't change the fact you shouldn't run with a random group for difficult content. The problem is one you created yourself.

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It probably depends on who would replace the Disc if you went with only one, the composition of the other healers, the composition of the rest of the raid, the relative skill of the two discs vs the relative skill of 1 disc and a different healer, the particular mythic bosses you are progressing on, the time at which you're progressing mythic (are you world first?), the lag each healer is experiencing to the server and the current weather forecast in Irvine.

Without all the above information, it isn't really possible to say. Skill is most important, which composition being second (a first resto shaman is going to bring more than a second disc for example).

If you try and stack disc priests, you will find yourself behind on the ability to heal specific targets and unpredictable damage. Other healers have much better triage capabilities than disc, whereas the latter excels at predictable damage spikes.

[VigilantRose]

How insignificant are the tunes that we just received? The balance to 1.5 ratio for mastery and Penance cost?

Fairly insignificant. You'll have the mana to pay for an extra Penance every 2 1/2 minutes or so (which you need to use on something else due to cooldown). Instead of needing 70% of your healing from Atonement, you need about 66% to make Mastery pay off.

[Noradin]

Exactly, which doesn't change the fact you shouldn't run with a random group for difficult content. The problem is one you created yourself.

How is it a problem for me?
I know that disc is viable.

I can find great fun in doing silly stuff sometimes, it is a game after all.
Why do you keep trying to make this about my person? Do you have an obsession with me? Or is there some list of people you feel a need to attack at every turn?

[PosPosPos]

How is it a problem for me?
I know that disc is viable.

I can find great fun in doing silly stuff sometimes, it is a game after all.
Why do you keep trying to make this about my person? Do you have an obsession with me? Or is there some list of people you feel a need to attack at every turn?

Because you are the one who's complaining about pugging as disc in mythic+ dungeons? Do you have some persecutory delusions? Or is that part of some list of excuses/projections you have to blather on at every turn when you slip up and are too embarrassed to just admit it and get on with your life?

You don't see that, you chose to group up with randoms, nobody, not I or anyone else, forced you to do it. Don't make this about other people.

[Djriff]

Pos they were speaking generally not about themselves and about the perception other people will have that don't know how to play the spec in dungeons, some people we've seen post here.

[davesignal]

Because you are the one who's complaining about pugging as disc in mythic+ dungeons? Do you have some persecutory delusions? Or is that part of some list of excuses/projections you have to blather on at every turn when you slip up and are too embarrassed to just admit it and get on with your life?

You don't see that, you chose to group up with randoms, nobody, not I or anyone else, forced you to do it. Don't make this about other people.

This is such elitist bullshit, by the way. For all you know the dude works nights and is trying to make do with the system Blizzard saw fit to present him with.

[lcs]

If you try and stack disc priests, you will find yourself behind on the ability to heal specific targets and unpredictable damage. Other healers have much better triage capabilities than disc, whereas the latter excels at predictable damage spikes.

Sure, but he was asking about 2 Disc priests, not all disc priests. It really does depend on the composition of the rest of the healing team. If you're running 4 healers, it is probably going to make more of a difference than if you're running 5 for example.

In the end, player skill is probably going to trump anything else. If needed, Disc can triage with Shadow Mend. It's not the preferred option for Disc in raiding, but that doesn't remove it as an option.

For anything less than Mythic hardcore progression (like world ranking levels), two Discs probably won't put your team at any more disadvantage than any other composition choice you're making (melee heavy, ranged heavy, tank choices, etc). "Bring the player, not the class" has been true for non-ranking raiding since TBC really. Play with your friends, let your friends play what they enjoy.

[Jimjam38]

So guys, does anyone know if PWR chooses it's atonement targets at the start of the cast, or the end? Is it possible to get an indicator for it's targets as you're casting it on something like Grid2, so that we can see who's about to get Atonement and can target someone without it for the next cast of PWR, instead of either accidentally overwriting an Atonement, or wasting precious milliseconds waiting to see who it lands on before you choose a new target?

[Totaltotemic]

So guys, does anyone know if PWR chooses it's atonement targets at the start of the cast, or the end? Is it possible to get an indicator for it's targets as you're casting it on something like Grid2, so that we can see who's about to get Atonement and can target someone without it for the next cast of PWR, instead of either accidentally overwriting an Atonement, or wasting precious milliseconds waiting to see who it lands on before you choose a new target?

End of the cast. Right now there is an addon that works specifically with Grid made by someone in Jinze's guild https://wow.curseforge.com/addons/gridconsradiance/

It uses the UnitPosition function to see the closest 2 people to your target that do not have Atonement. Unfortunately, this is the same function that will be disabled in 7.1 so.. don't get used to it.

[Jimjam38]

As a side note, just read a comment on wowhead that pointed out PWR is the only 'word' spell with a cast time. I hadn't really noticed, but it makes sense flavour wise that they would be instant cast as a 'word' should be a quick, instantaneous spell. Obviously PWR can't be instant for balance reasons, but perhaps, flavour wise, the names for Plea and PWR should have been swapped.

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End of the cast. Right now there is an addon that works specifically with Grid made by someone in Jinze's guild https://wow.curseforge.com/addons/gridconsradiance/

It uses the UnitPosition function to see the closest 2 people to your target that do not have Atonement. Unfortunately, this is the same function that will be disabled in 7.1 so.. don't get used to it.

Oh wow, so I knew that the function they were disabling was for things like ExorsusRaidTools on Kormrok, but I didn't realise it was the same function used for things like DBM's range radar, although it obviously is in hindsight. That's the same one we appropriated from the DBM range radar when I spearheaded trying to make that Holy Nova Sonar addon at the start of WoD when it looked like HN spam was gonna be the name of the disc game.
I assume that this will also mean the end of all such AoE healing cluster finder addons and raidframe plugins and whatnot?

[Totaltotemic]

Oh wow, so I knew that the function they were disabling was for things like ExorsusRaidTools on Kormrok, but I didn't realise it was the same function used for things like DBM's range radar, although it obviously is in hindsight. That's the same one we appropriated from the DBM range radar when I spearheaded trying to make that Holy Nova Sonar addon at the start of WoD when it looked like HN spam was gonna be the name of the disc game.
I assume that this will also mean the end of all such AoE healing cluster finder addons and raidframe plugins and whatnot?

Yes, all of those types of addons or functions of addons/WeakAuras will be defunct and useless when 7.1 comes out unless they find some kind of workaround (a popular theory right now being constructing some kind of 2d plot based on UnitDistance triangulating among all members of a raid that have a specific addon).

The most popular one relevant to Disc is probably Vuhdo's cluster finder/AoE healing helper that will simply not work when that patch comes out in a couple of months. Personally I would just try to get used to doing it without addons. With enough practice it becomes a rarity to have uncertainty in who it will go on, and even then stuttering a cast isn't the end of the world.

[PosPosPos]

Sure, but he was asking about 2 Disc priests, not all disc priests. It really does depend on the composition of the rest of the healing team. If you're running 4 healers, it is probably going to make more of a difference than if you're running 5 for example.

In the end, player skill is probably going to trump anything else. If needed, Disc can triage with Shadow Mend. It's not the preferred option for Disc in raiding, but that doesn't remove it as an option.

For anything less than Mythic hardcore progression (like world ranking levels), two Discs probably won't put your team at any more disadvantage than any other composition choice you're making (melee heavy, ranged heavy, tank choices, etc). "Bring the player, not the class" has been true for non-ranking raiding since TBC really. Play with your friends, let your friends play what they enjoy.

I was implying a spectrum rather than fixed numbers - the more discs you run, the more you find yourself behind on the ability to triage and catchup on random damage.

So the bottom line is, just weigh what your raid needs/lacks and run the corresponding number of disc priests.

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This is such elitist bullshit, by the way. For all you know the dude works nights and is trying to make do with the system Blizzard saw fit to present him with.

So make friends who play in the morning? Or on the opposite end of the earth?

If you can pug at "dead" hours, you can jolly well make friends at said timings. It's not elitism when it's just common sense. Don't try to dress up your lacking areas as the fault of others.

[Totaltotemic]

The concept of pugging M+ dungeons is kind of silly if you want to do anything seriously. You're not going to find pugs doing level 5+ for a very, very long time.

[Deleted]

The concept of pugging M+ dungeons is kind of silly if you want to do anything seriously. You're not going to find pugs doing level 5+ for a very, very long time.

How so? +5 looks pretty puggable to me. Possibly not during the first week, but the weeks after I don't see any issue.


Anyway, for something completely different:


A while ago I fooled around with some of those legendaries and I noticed some issues I had one of them: the belt that makes smite sometimes reset penance. I found it pretty nice, but also awkward to use at the same time since the proc comes off at the end of cast of a spell and then makes you want to press an instant channel. So obviously there is a situation where latency or bad reactions or whatever is making a huge impact and I'm not sure how best to deal with it.

In many other cases procs come from periodic effects or from instant cast spells where you got the whole global cooldown (0.5-1.5 seconds) to react which is plenty of time but here you want to keep casting the next smite or whatever as soon as possible.

But here if you cast instantly before even seeing the proc (just on the chance that the smite did it), you delay the next smite or other spell a little bit... and even then casting the spell after you think penace did not work sometimes interrupted the penace I got after all setting it on cooldown.

Has anyone else had similiar problems or is this mostly connected to the non-ideal latency I got to the beta servers? Also does anyone know a good workaround for the problem of accidentally canceling your penance with a smite there? Is there any macro or whatever that can "protect" your spell from being interrupted by another while channeling?

I don't think there is any way to macro the spell to be automatically chosen anymore depending on what is still on cooldown, is there?

[Deleted]

Just realized that first 13 traits in legendary are going to be almost for free. It is 13 traits for the same amount as one 14th trait. And when we get into 20+ traits on main spec, the amount of AP I spend in offspec should be completely neglible, so it should not affect raiding at all.

My main spec will be Shadow but I am considering starting as Discipline. I did some build in calculator for 12 traits, which all off them are nice boosts to most used abilites in 5man healing. This is it http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...YYBIAAAAAAAAAA

Looking for some critique here. Also I have a question about Power of the Dark Side trait. How often it procs ? Is it much better than Confession trait ( flat 4% penance boost).

[lcs]

Just realized that first 13 traits in legendary are going to be almost for free. It is 13 traits for the same amount as one 14th trait. And when we get into 20+ traits on main spec, the amount of AP I spend in offspec should be completely neglible, so it should not affect raiding at all.

My main spec will be Shadow but I am considering starting as Discipline. I did some build in calculator for 12 traits, which all off them are nice boosts to most used abilites in 5man healing. This is it http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...YYBIAAAAAAAAAA

Looking for some critique here. Also I have a question about Power of the Dark Side trait. How often it procs ? Is it much better than Confession trait ( flat 4% penance boost).

Power of the Dark Side is 1RPPM.

Seeing as you can have 7 penance casts in 1 minute, you see the following.

1 Confession : 175 * 3 * 7 * 1.04                                              3675
3 Confession : 175 * 3 * 7 * 1.12                                              4068
6 Confession : 175 * 3 * 7 * 1.24                                              4557
1 POTDS (0H) : 175 * 3 * 6 + 175 * 3 * 1.5                                    ~3937.5
1 POTDS (33H): (175 * 3 * 5) + (175 * 3 * 1.5) + (175 * 3 * (1 + .5*.33)) =   ~4024.125

A note on the POTDS calculations, it is RPPM, so they're just "averages".

So on raw numbers (assume penance on cooldown and perfect SWP uptime), a POTDS beats a single point in Confession. 3 points in confession beats POTDS (with no haste and 33% haste).

Do with that what you will. I'm sure some could argue that confession is more consistent, but POTDS is probably more "fun". The change in rotation and occasional huge penance casts beat 4% more on each penance imo (in terms of gameplay).