[7.0] Legion Discipline Priest Guide and Discussion

[Deleted]

The problem is, you can't "cast less" when there's only 2 healers. What, am I supposed to just slack and let the other healer work harder?

Yes, since he can spend his mana more efficiently during low damage periods than you can. Then he can chill out a bit when you go ham and burst.

"mana problems? just use less mana!"

wow so helpful

What other advice is there to give? If you run out of mana you've used too much mana, period. If you want more mana then use less mana when you don't need too. Endlessly spamming smite will oom you, so sometimes you just wanna chill for a bit, there is plenty of times where there is time for one healer to chill and not heal.

[anon5123]

Yes, since he can spend his mana more efficiently during low damage periods than you can. Then he can chill out a bit when you go ham and burst.

And that's exactly what I've been doing: just Plea/PWS and Smite/PTW and yet I'm still burning through my mana incredibly fast.

there is plenty of times where there is time for one healer to chill and not heal.

And on Ursoc with 2 healers, there were none of those times. At any given time, either the whole raid was injured or one of the tanks was getting smacked. I can't just "not cast" because either the tank will die or the raid will.

And suggesting that one of the healers slack and make the other healer work harder is the correct and intended way to heal...really shows that Disc is flawed as fuck.

[Deleted]

And suggesting that one of the healers slack and make the other healer work harder is the correct and intended way to heal...really shows that Disc is flawed as fuck.

Why is it flawed? If one guy slacks while the other goes ham and vice versa? It just promotes good teamplay which i am a 100% fine with.

Also if you post logs i can assure you that there is some time where you could have chilled for a couple of seconds without anybody dying.

[anon5123]

Why is it flawed? If one guy slacks while the other goes ham and vice versa? It just promotes good teamplay which i am a 100% fine with.

No other healer has to do that. That's why it's flawed.

No other healer has to "slack" and not cast spells, just to avoid running out of mana halfway through the fight.

That's not "teamplay", that's "one player slacking and forcing the other to work harder".

You think it's perfectly okay class design, to have a spec that needs to do nothing for extended amounts of time, in order to play properly, when no other spec has to do that?

[Deleted]

No other healer has to "slack" and not cast spells, just to avoid running out of mana halfway through the fight.

Mistweavers do. Disc and mistweavers are bound by mana rather than cooldowns which other healers are (mostly). Thats why most of the time innervates go to them and not the resto shammy that never drops bellow 40% mana.

You also seem to think that we're talking about 30 seconds of afking, which is not the case. We're talking 1-2 seconds here and there which eventually adds up.

[Totaltotemic]

Yeah that's why I don't talk about it. People that complain about the spec itself and refuse to acknowledge that there's anything wrong with their own play typically refuse to ever provide any kind of logs. They don't want to accept that they need to improve their own play and would rather blame the spec.

I have run out of mana at 50% on bosses and I have also made the exact same amount of mana last for the entire boss and done more healing that way. It's just being efficient. I have never seen a log of someone that ran out of mana halfway through a fight that was playing well.

[anon5123]

You also seem to think that we're talking about 30 seconds of afking, which is not the case. We're talking 1-2 seconds here and there which eventually adds up.

I never said "30 seconds", thanks for assuming.

Even when I was doing exactly as you said, just "not casting" for a few GCDs at a time, I was still OOMing around 20-30%.

And this still doesn't change the fact that one healer has to "not cast" just to play properly, when other healers don't.

Yeah that's why I don't talk about it. People that complain about the spec itself and refuse to acknowledge that there's anything wrong with their own play typically refuse to ever provide any kind of logs. They don't want to accept that they need to improve their own play and would rather blame the spec.

Except I'm literally asking you how to improve and play the "right way". And you refuse to answer, repeatedly insisting that everyone else is wrong and you're not going to bother explaining yourself because elitism.

[Pearl1717]

I never said "30 seconds", thanks for assuming.

Even when I was doing exactly as you said, just "not casting" for a few GCDs at a time, I was still OOMing around 20-30%.

And this still doesn't change the fact that one healer has to "not cast" just to play properly, when other healers don't.

Well, until you actually provide logs, no one can actually help you and pinpoint what you're doing wrong. Because obviously something is going wrong otherwise you wouldn't be ooming so hard considering so many other players are not. Because all too often people *think* theyre doing something but in reality they aren't. Case in point, here. You may think youre holding on to gcd's, being efficient with your spell usage etc, but until you provide logs and evidence, that's all anyone is going to assume is going wrong because in 99% of cases that's what it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Except I'm literally asking you how to improve and play the "right way". And you refuse to answer, repeatedly insisting that everyone else is wrong and you're not going to bother explaining yourself because elitism.

Elitism - Says the person that thinks theyre doing everything right and can't possibly be playing wrong. People have made suggestions on how to improve your mana usage, which you brush off and say you've been doing the entire time (which I can almost guarantee you youre not). So please provide logs so someone can actually help you. We cant help unless you actually give evidence on what you're doing, not what you think youre doing.

[anon5123]

the person that thinks theyre doing everything right and can't possibly be playing wrong.

And you continue to put words in my mouth and strawman me.

I'm literally asking you how to play correctly, and you're claiming I'm saying that I'm not playing wrong.



Thanks for reminding me why you're on my ignore list.

[Totaltotemic]

And you continue to put words in my mouth and strawman me.

I'm literally asking you how to play correctly, and you're claiming I'm saying that I'm not playing wrong.



Thanks for reminding me why you're on my ignore list.

You were told how to play correctly. Spend less mana. If you want any further detailed analysis, people would have to actually have any clue what you do in a raid besides run out of mana at some point.

I'm not some kind of telepath that can magically know what you are doing wrong. All I know is what you have said, which is that you run out of mana. I have no details on how you spend your mana, whether you are spending it correctly, if you should even need to spend the mana that you are, if other people are screwing up mechanics, if your other healer is terrible, none of that. Put in no data and you will get no analysis.

[Djriff]

Anon, we can't help you without logs, you shouldn't have an issue providing them yeah?

As for holy paladins, unless something's changed a holy pally won't work any harder with you healing or taking a couple seconds to regen some mana. They literaly just spam their heals on different targets and do healing.

For ursoc in particular, Halo/Divine Star (W/e you use) the first Roar while having at least 6 atonements out. When the 2nd one is out the entire time before you should have been placing your atonements on the vast majority of the raid and time Light's Wrath to hit the boss right after the damage goes out. After that there isn't any big damage coming so you can afford to take a few seconds to recover. For the next roar, you'll be able to Halo it and penance/smite heal the rest. It's just clockwork and you need to just learn where your windows of atonements are. The fight is simple.

[laalipop]

Isn't disc more or less pure burst at this point? Then it makes sense to "put more weight on the other healers" at certain times no? You're making it so that they don't have to work as hard during high damage and in return you rest during low damage phases, or am I missing something in my logic?

[anon5123]

Anon, we can't help you without logs, you shouldn't have an issue providing them yeah?

I don't run any kind of logging outside of Skada. I'm asking for playstyle tips, not log analysis.

The thing is that I'm already doing most of these suggestions. I'm not just spamming PWR nonstop, I only use PWR for huge raidwide damage, and only 1 or 2. And yet I was still OOM'ing like halfway through encounters. Most of the time when there's no raidwide damage, I just toss out Plea/PWS and Smite away. Only "not casting" when there's nobody taking damage except the tank.

I got myself an 840 Promises deck and that seems to have...just about completely fixed my mana issues. Haven't really changed my playstyle, but now I'm finding that I'm miraculously not OOM'ing like crazy. But this could also have to do with the fact that this pug had 4 healers instead of 2.

[Pearl1717]

The thing is that I'm already doing most of these suggestions. I'm not just spamming PWR nonstop, I only use PWR for huge raidwide damage, and only 1 or 2. And yet I was still OOM'ing like halfway through encounters. Most of the time when there's no raidwide damage, I just toss out Plea/PWS and Smite away. Only "not casting" when there's nobody taking damage except the tank.

Again, this comes down to perception. You may think you're doing all these things (inb4 you say "but I am doing all these things, im the one playing, I know what I'm doing blah blah blah") but the reality is that your perception is skewed. The only way to tell for sure is to actually look at logs. And until you provide that, you wont get any concrete help because there is no way to tell what you're doing wrong without them.

So. If you want help, start logging. Its super easy to do.

Edit:

So here's your one log from someone else logging. Well you died at 3 minutes into a 9 minute fight, so I guess we'll just talk about everything up to then (mana related).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...22545&source=8

1) Way too many plea casts. There really is no reason for this many in this short of time.

2) 1 MB cast in 3 minutes.

3) Too many smite casts

Kinda hard to tell off 1 log, and a log where you died in the first 30%, but I'm sure this trend continues.

[Deleted]

Hell, i still can't raid because of work but...

I'm having a lot of fun in M+!

Me (Healer)
Warrior Tank, Warrior DPS with Key+3 NL medium DPS, DK Unholy medium DPS that used to stand on fire, Hunter good dps

Warrior DPS left after first boss blaming DK for 1 extra pull

We finished the M+3 (out of timer) killing last boss in 3 person since 95% & the worm from 35% to 0% me & the hunter.

It was crazy, but it was a hell of fun!

DPS & healing was key to finish everything

[Sxq]

Loving how some of the top guilds (Method and Midwinter in particular) are running disc priests! I think it's clear that they absolutely bring a lot to a raid group.

[Helelos]

Apparently the secret to healing heroic Iggy well as Disc is going Grace and Shadowmend spam. Are there other talent choices you've found effective on the various heroic fights?

[anon5123]

Apparently the secret to healing heroic Iggy well as Disc is going Grace and Shadowmend spam. Are there other talent choices you've found effective on the various heroic fights?

I'd say the secret to healing it as Disc is to respec Holy. That fight in general is just the antithesis of Disc, being that there's no big raidwide damage, just a constant stream of random and unpredictable damage.

Plus, as Holy, Smite costs no mana, so you can safely add tons of damage during the burn phases without worrying about wasting mana.

[xdmemes]

Loving how some of the top guilds (Method and Midwinter in particular) are running disc priests! I think it's clear that they absolutely bring a lot to a raid group.

Who cares, just stack shamans

[Jimjam38]

I'd say the secret to healing it as Disc is to respec Holy. That fight in general is just the antithesis of Disc, being that there's no big raidwide damage, just a constant stream of random and unpredictable damage.

Plus, as Holy, Smite costs no mana, so you can safely add tons of damage during the burn phases without worrying about wasting mana.

The Mendstyle way of playing disc works quite well on Ilgy - see Flintoid's youtube videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpD...3rUYMsg/videos

It's a much more reactive triage style of playing that utilizes shadowmend a lot more - the spot healing you can do is far stronger than the prepburst style (that is, the style that Total's guide focuses on) that disc priests default to.
Certainly there are benefits and downsides to both styles, and my personal opinion is that the 'correct' way to play disc is not one or the other, but fluidly transitioning between them depending on what is required - and certainly some fights will favour one style or the other. Ilgy, particularly, favours Mendstyle, while Nyth favours the Prepburst style.