Will loot RNG shorten content life?

[Deleted]

Personally, I dislike that they increased the RNG so much on loot, especially Raid loot. It was already bad enough with the Warforged / Sockets in WoD. As an example: One of our raid members decided to take a break during progression after the 2nd Mythic HFC boss, and only came back after we had it on farm. Looking at the stats now, I have participated in around double or more kills for every single boss there vs. that guy but he already has 3 more WF items and 4 more sockets in his gear. We are at around same skill level but of course, he now performs better (output-wise) than me.

This is the frustrating part of the RNG, that with Raid lockouts, the individual number of loot for a given class in any given raid group is simply not high enough to average out the luck factor. Even more, new members or members that did a break of course then get the items that drop first because its the biggest push for them. Even when that happens to be titanforged.

I would be OK with the 3rd stats since they are mostly not that critical for performance, but the sockets (200 2nd stat now) and especially WF/TF make this system extremely frustrating for some.

[Roadblock]

What it will do is bring back a much worse version of loot envy.

Classic version: "Wow that guy is full purple, he must be a good player in a great guild"
Legion: "Wow, RNGesus loves that guy, I wish I could win the loot lottery too"

Blizzard is trying to bring back elements from the classic era, but they keep coming back as rotting festering corpses with a lot of patchouli to cover the stench instead.

[l33t]

I think that most sane people will still form BiS lists, any any warforged or sockets that appear on those pieces will be considered a bonus.

"Sane" people usually know that your "bis" item with no upgrades and socket usually is worse than a piece of garbage haste/versa warforged socketed crap.

[Maudib]

If anything, gear randomization will extend content life.

For a fraction of the playerbase perhaps... the majority will simply not care... "What's the point?"

Personally I think RNG loot is yet another fail idea for an MMO.

[Osmeric]

For a fraction of the playerbase perhaps... the majority will simply not care... "What's the point?"

Personally I think RNG loot is yet another fail idea for an MMO.

What it does is lift the chance of getting useful gear in many cases from "zero" to "slightly more than zero". If you have zero chance of getting reward from something, it's harder to get yourself interested in doing it than if you have a slight chance of getting a useful reward.

[hulkgor]

No. It will do the opposite, since you will find reasons to run earlier\easier content just for the odd chance of hitting jackpot on an item.

It will just be extremely boring.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

I kind of appreciate the loot RNG making it possible to get better pieces of the same gear. Yeah, it leaves some of us always wanting that perfect piece. But it also gives us a chance at an upgrade when repeating content. It also makes getting that perfect piece a lot more epic.

[Maudib]

What it does is lift the chance of getting useful gear in many cases from "zero" to "slightly more than zero". If you have zero chance of getting reward from something, it's harder to get yourself interested in doing it than if you have a slight chance of getting a useful reward.

Ha ha ha... Did you really say that? I, myself, am not interested in doing anything for a slight chance of anything. Once you see how very little difference there is in 5 iLevels in Legion...

But hey.. enjoy!

[Osmeric]

Ha ha ha... Did you really say that? I, myself, am not interested in doing anything for a slight chance of anything. Once you see how very little difference there is in 5 iLevels in Legion...

But hey.. enjoy!

Yes, I really said that. It's the difference between a lottery where you have a zero chance of winning, and one where you have an very small, but nonzero, chance of winning. Psychologically these are very different situations.

[Maudib]

Yes, I really said that. It's the difference between a lottery where you have a zero chance of winning, and one where you have an very small, but nonzero, chance of winning. Psychologically these are very different situations.

Since I am from the camp that the lottery is a tax for the stupid... if a very small chance will psychologically entice you run content beneath your iLevel... then you have lots of opportunity in Legion.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it will depend on whether player is casual or hardcore. Blizzard hope, that accidental upgrades will keep players interested for a long time, but it isn't the case. Casual players, like me, bother about guaranteed loot only. For example currently my goal is - to obtain full Baleful 695 gear (I don't upgrade it - takes too long and requires dungeons/LFR, not worth it). It's guaranteed, that I will obtain one item once in 2-3 days (I don't do all Appexis objectives every day - dailies only, i.e 3 zones + rares). RNG loot isn't guaranteed for me, so I don't know, how much time can it take to obtain it, and therefore can't set any goal to achieve - I wouldn't do it. For example if there wouldn't be 20k Appexis Baleful gear upgrades and there will be RNG upgrades from rares only - I would stop doing Tanaan after 3 days, when I would get full Blue Baleful set. And I can say, that RNG loot is even worse for me, cuz I like to have full sets of gear and hate to look like a clown - having different pieces of gear with different item levels. For example I like to be "full 695" and don't want to be "some items are green, some blue, some epic and that one item is Mythic one". You should know, that I usually vendor items, that are upgrades, but don't fit into my set. So no. Unfortunately for Blizzard, I won't play their World Of Diablocraft.

I'm kinda in the same boat. While I would not sell upgrades just because "they don't fit" - because I use transmog for consmetics and gear pieces for effectivity - at some point RNG is just too much for me. I am willing to invest some time into farming rare mounts or rare drop legendarys in legacy content, because I can do this totally on my own schedule and skip lockouts if I don't have time in a week to hunt these things.

But with progression, this is a bit different. It will probably be just like with artifacts - if I gain more artifact progression on my 2nd artifact than on my 1st, I will probably rather invest in the 2nd. If I can get more progression on an alt because my main reaches a ceiling where any upgrade is totally RNG dependant, while my alts can progress linearly, I will shift to playing alts before I waste time on my main and don't get anything.

I know that I would be a cyclical player if I would not be an altoholic. That's for sure.

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What it does is lift the chance of getting useful gear in many cases from "zero" to "slightly more than zero". If you have zero chance of getting reward from something, it's harder to get yourself interested in doing it than if you have a slight chance of getting a useful reward.

If social play would still be relevant in this game, there would be other reasons to run content where you don't gain anything from it. Like I am helping guild mates for example. The only thing I get in return is a thank you, and possibly a vanity item in rare cases.

[WowIsDead64]

I'm kinda in the same boat. While I would not sell upgrades just because "they don't fit" - because I use transmog for consmetics and gear pieces for effectivity - at some point RNG is just too much for me. I am willing to invest some time into farming rare mounts or rare drop legendarys in legacy content, because I can do this totally on my own schedule and skip lockouts if I don't have time in a week to hunt these things.

I don't care about visual appearance or item power, that's why I've never used transmog system and don't care about raiding. It's about setting goal and achieving it. I want full Baleful on all characters - any other item, even if it's piece of Mythic raid set, brakes this system -> should be put into bank or even vendored.

Spoiler: 

[BannedForViews]

I feel like all of you claiming this is more rng for gear didnt raid black temple for months on end and never get that bulwark of azzinoth, or t6 chest piece, etc. I remember some idiots who on their first illidan kill got gear i hadnt seen drop once in 20 runs. There has always been rng folks.

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I don't care about visual appearance or item power, that's why I've never used transmog system and don't care about raiding. It's about setting goal and achieving it. I want full Baleful on all characters - any other item, even if it's piece of Mythic raid set, brakes this system -> should be put into bank
[/collapse]

You are in a very small minority. There is nothing so great about "full baleful" that you shouldnt want a random piece that is better. I have baleful fear flowingnout my ass from satchels. Most is pure vendor trash.

[Tharkkun]

"Sane" people usually know that your "bis" item with no upgrades and socket usually is worse than a piece of garbage haste/versa warforged socketed crap.

In the Legion system where secondaries are far less valuable that will probably be true. But there are many cases where the warforged/socketed version of an item with vers/haste is worse than the same item with crit/multi on it. Some classes secondary stats just scaled better.

[Maudib]

I feel like all of you claiming this is more rng for gear didnt raid black temple for months on end and never get that bulwark of azzinoth, or t6 chest piece, etc. I remember some idiots who on their first illidan kill got gear i hadnt seen drop once in 20 runs. There has always been rng folks.

Not getting something is what drove us to go after it... and that is the only RNG needed. It was so damn rewarding when you did.

Treating loot like scratch off lottery tickets... very bad...

[WowIsDead64]

You are in a very small minority. There is nothing so great about "full baleful" that you shouldnt want a random piece that is better. I have baleful fear flowingnout my ass from satchels. Most is pure vendor trash.

No, I'm from majority of casual players, who don't care about gear power and happy about having full-LFR set for example. Yeah, majority of players wouldn't vandor upgrade item, but they don't actually need it, so they won't intentionally chase upgrades. Not caring about appearance and vendoring Mythic gear - are of course exaggerations. I'm partially "RPer" and prefer to look "naturally". I.e. transmog system isn't realistic and kills fantasy/immersion - I want to look the way, I've earned. I.e. if my gear is crap - I want to look crappy. That's why I don't use transmog.

And in case of "vendoring Mythic gear" - of course I wouldn't do it, but I try to avoid situations, where I would get gear, I wouldn't need - that's why I don't do Normal+ raids. Even one Normal+ item may tease me and involve me into doing Normal+. And I don't have time for this. But once you've got it - there is no way back. And in this case RNG loot upgrades - is also a bait, like basic achievements, that should tease players and involve them into chasing harder achievements. Blizzard think, that if I would get 1-2 powerful upgrades "for free", this would trigger my passion, I'd think, that I'm lucky, tease me and involve into chasing upgrades for all my items. And this is exact situation, I want to avoid, as I don't want to be involved into trying to chase goal, that is actually impossible to achieve for me.

[SirCowdog]

"Sane" people usually know that your "bis" item with no upgrades and socket usually is worse than a piece of garbage haste/versa warforged socketed crap.

If an item is BiS, it's there for a reason, usually because it's got perfect stats for a spec. I suppose it's possible for a random gen piece of equipment with poor itemization, but higher iLVL, that's titanforged with a socket to end up better. But that's the whole point I was making: It's a bonus. Not expected. You start with the baseline BiS, and if you happen to get a random item to drop that's better then you're lucky. You don't go in EXPECTING to get that.

But I can understand the complaints. How do you know if a random stat piece of equipment is better? Unless you're a math wizard than can do the calculations in your head, you have to guess. Or hope someone has a website or addon than can calculate it for you.

[Redroniksre]

I am in a mythic guild, as well as the fact that there are normal/heroic raid guilds that put just as much emphasis on their progression as a mythic raid guild does.
To correct your post if I may: raids are based around numbers and coordination. The biggest contribution to personal numbers is from gear. The more numbers you pump out, while still performing your role, is directly tied into getting/earning a raid spot as these kill the boss faster for hard/soft enrage mechanics. Very specific example: 2 hunters in a guild, both play at the same skill level, one has a 795 ring, other has a 775 (give or take), you're guild is working on Archimonde progression, which one do you take?

Rarely are two people on the same skill level. +5 ilvl will not make up for a difference in skill and like someone else said, apart from top 10 Mythic raid guilds the only other ones sitting a player for that small a difference are a guild i would not want to be in. If you cant be top 10, then all the gear in the world won't solve your lack of skill problem.

[Deleted]

The reason this works in Action RPGs such as D3, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn etc is that those are basically virtual slot machines with a paint of some fantasy game about swords and skeletons and zombies. You get that itch "if i just kill one more elite pack you never know what will drop!" that is the whole alure of those games.

WoW is not a slot machine, the game is gated around all kinds of timers to extend the end game long enough for them to insert a new set of items to grind.


That slot machine in those games? Takes 5-10 minutes to kill a horde of elite packs and get your fix, and you can do it whenever, whereever. In WoW? You cannot do this, you are asking people to commit to a rigid and dull raiding schedule only to possibly get screwed by a random system.