[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[Yvaelle]

Which specs have an Initiate? I've been playing WoW since Jan 2016 and I have concentrated on priest specs. But I have never heard of any spec having an Initiate so far? (Or did I misunderstand and you were implying that it would be interesting to have an Initiate as a class mechanic?)

Lots of classes have something along the lines of an increased damage phase against high health targets. In addition to the ones Davesignal mentioned (Firestarter, Big Game Hunter, Careful Aim), I would also include the Shadowpriest (PvP) talent: Initiation.

Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, Priest, Druids, and Shamans have a variation of that same talent: increased crit chance on targets above 80% hp.

Another good example of an Initation though is the old Glyph of Freezing Trap for hunters, which would grant the Hunter 100% critical chance against targets in your traps.

That may not sound like an initiation, but often the way it worked in PvP (where it was typically used), was that you would run a CC chain on the enemy healer (arenas), and when you ran out of CC and your target was still up, you would swap to the healer (in your trap): Aimed Shot+Chimera shot would both hit at the same time and both benefit, so you could auto-crit two of your hardest hitting abilities off the swap. Functionally it was an initiation, though I guess technically it didn't require high HP to do.

What I'm saying is that it would be cool if, rather than giving everyone an Execute and watering it down - they took some away - but gave some classes an Initiate type ability (not just a % crit buff), something that only worked on high HP targets.

A good example I think, would be to give someone like Rets an ability that does double damage while a target is above 80% hp (ex. Templar's Verdict): so they have a big incentive to go hit the newest adds that spawned, but once they're below 80% they ideally would prefer to target swap to a newer add. The reverse would be Shadowpriests with SW: Death, where we would want to be seeking out the lowest hp mobs and persuading them to give up on life.

This adds more variety of priorities, and prevents the somewhat awkward situation we have right now where an add hits 35%, and then suddenly like 25 different people cast some kind of execute on it, and it explodes - classes for whom this was historically a niche (ex. Shadow< Warriors) feel less impactful as a result.

[Sinistrem]

Is it ok not to cast anything if mb/vb are going off cd in less than a single gcd? Or should i be always casting and just interrupt my mindflay as soon as gcd is over? Thanks.

[Sarkol]

You will refresh your dot before going into vf imo since you'll waste a buff otherwise.

the buff is refreshed whenever you enter VF, unless they added a cd on it.

So you could do : mind sear => VE => vf "rotation" => refresh everything whenever => repeat.

Tho I dunno if it's better than the shoulders or the belt (well the belt i think is designed with SI talented in mind to really profit from the added charges.)

Don't really understand what you mean here. What buff? And it refreshes dots to the maximum on it's own.

[justflayin]

Is it ok not to cast anything if mb/vb are going off cd in less than a single gcd? Or should i be always casting and just interrupt my mindflay as soon as gcd is over? Thanks.

ABC Always Be Casting.

[Yvaelle]

Is it ok not to cast anything if mb/vb are going off cd in less than a single gcd? Or should i be always casting and just interrupt my mindflay as soon as gcd is over? Thanks.

If you aren't likely to get more than one tick of mind flay in, or since doing so would likely delay MB/VB by a gcd, you can think of the value of waiting as the difference in damage between a tick of mind flay and MB/VB damage, divided by the remaining % of the GCD.

If it's basically a full GCD, it's okay to take that extra Mind Flay tick - but if you're going to be delaying MB/VB for almost a full GCD, it's definitely not worthwhile. A middle ground exists between those two where it's uncertain, but it favors waiting for MB/VB (because they hit so much harder than a tick of MF).

Bit of a side discussion, but I'm not super happy with the feel of both MB and VB competing in our priorities, I would actually prefer more Mind Flay in our priorities: but even with Flayer, the class trinket, and Void Ray, it still feels like shit.

[Ambereldus]

Bit of a side discussion, but I'm not super happy with the feel of both MB and VB competing in our priorities, I would actually prefer more Mind Flay in our priorities: but even with Flayer, the class trinket, and Void Ray, it still feels like shit.

I couldn't agree more. It feels off-balance and jarring for MB to always have a period where it won't be used immediately, almost as if the Dev's didn't plan our rotation properly.

COP was actually a really good example of a rotation done right, in my opinion. The entire rotation revolved around MB, and had a strict yet calming tempo for me. (3/4 beat, for the musically inclined.) It was smooth, deliberate, predictable.

Now, there's this weird dissonance between MB and VB where they come off cooldown simultaneously every second (third?) VB during VF. Balance issues aside, I think the rotation would feel so much better if MB kept its 9s CD inside VF. (Keeps a tempo of MB every other VB)

[Ilir]

Don't really understand what you mean here. What buff? And it refreshes dots to the maximum on it's own.

The legendary gives you (or it used to) a buff that makes your next mindsear spread the dots everytime you enter voidform (unless they changed it)

edit : http://www.wowhead.com/spell=207724/...see-also-other this one

[Yvaelle]

Now, there's this weird dissonance between MB and VB where they come off cooldown simultaneously every second (third?) VB during VF. Balance issues aside, I think the rotation would feel so much better if MB kept its 9s CD inside VF. (Keeps a tempo of MB every other VB)

Agreed, or if Void Blast wasn't thing, Mind Blast became instant, and flay felt meaningful

Maybe I'm just old now though, pining for the past.

[Djriff]

Agreed, or if Void Blast wasn't thing, Mind Blast became instant, and flay felt meaningful

Maybe I'm just old now though, pining for the past.

No, mind flay just feels weird now, like it doesn't belong in the rotation.

[Yvaelle]

No, mind flay just feels weird now, like it doesn't belong in the rotation.

Or that, but personally I like channeling my brain beam

I would rather they make it so mind flay feels at home, rather than this newcomer void bolt that ruined it.

[Sarkol]

The legendary gives you (or it used to) a buff that makes your next mindsear spread the dots everytime you enter voidform (unless they changed it)

edit : http://www.wowhead.com/spell=207724/...see-also-other this one

I think i see what you mean. Utilise the Mind Sear spread further into Void Form where it gets harder to multidot things, instead of as soon as you enter? Either way i like it a lot.

[Mursy]

How do you guys feel Shadow plays in Mythic+? Because i feel i do good in Mythic dungeons but part of why i get good dps is the HFC Mindbender Tier bonus.

[l33t]

How do you guys feel Shadow plays in Mythic+? Because i feel i do good in Mythic dungeons but part of why i get good dps is the HFC Mindbender Tier bonus.

Dunno, I am running Shadow crash for mythic dungeons and still do like 55%+ of my group's total damage on bosses. Trash packs? Good damage when I can shadow crash them, or when trash pack is three fat mobs, absolute shit when shadow crash is on cd and/or trash pack is a ton of mobs with little to no HP. Although I'm running dungeons with havoc and veng DHs, so maybe that's why I do so much dps. Like, in a group with fury war, ww monk or anyone else who does not require a minute to ramp up their damage and can just melt mobs 0,0001 second after they are pulled, I am quite sure I would lick the bottom of recount on trash.

[Deleted]

Maby a question that's been asked before,
Is there a point where Lingering Insanity stacks get so high that you would delay Void form?
Considering the stacks are lost and the build up time from entering void form
Cheers

[Gorsameth]

Maby a question that's been asked before,
Is there a point where Lingering Insanity stacks get so high that you would delay Void form?
Considering the stacks are lost and the build up time from entering void form
Cheers

Yes, asked before (which is fine, this is a thread for questions after all) and the answer is No, its not worth it.

[Biomega]

Like, in a group with fury war, ww monk or anyone else who does not require a minute to ramp up their damage and can just melt mobs 0,0001 second after they are pulled, I am quite sure I would lick the bottom of recount on trash.

Even Fire Mages, the supposed caster kings, lick the bottom of the meters in scenarios like that. Very small time frame burst AoE is not what casters do particularly well.

Luckily that scenario is also not common outside of trivial content. Prepatch Mythic dungeons may see every boss steamrolled in 15 seconds flat and trash snuffed out as soon as you as much as look at it, but that just won't be the case in M+ come Legion.

[BobAwesome]

Honestly if i was to design lvl 100 talents i'd go with
1) STM
2) Draenor-like COP
3) Legacy of the void providing "old" sp gameplay without voidform. Giving passive shadow form like damage boost, making void eruption and void bolt castable all the time but cost insanity as resource.

I think this would cover most ppl playstyles. STM for those who like new sp, cop for those who liked WOD and legacy for cata-like gameplay.

I suggested something like this as well, even on the feedback forums I got downvoted.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post41595271

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...ge=45#post-881

[Poopymonster]

Are we stuck with still doing Power Word: JAZZ HANDS! instead of channeling power through our dagger for Void Torrent?

[Sinistrem]

Are we stuck with still doing Power Word: JAZZ HANDS! instead of channeling power through our dagger for Void Torrent?

At least we are no longer locked into boxing stance while in combat.

[Fleckens]

I suggested something like this as well, even on the feedback forums I got downvoted.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post41595271

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...ge=45#post-881

Because it's a bad idea, one of the talents would turn out the best and everyone would play that, and I think the majority of shadowpriests much prefer the current version to going back to CoP.