1. #3301
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilee25 View Post
    This has been my working theory since Legion hit. I truly believe that someone or someones is obsessed with shadow being this intense skill-gated class for the uber-raider. All of the changes and design point towards it, even in the non-StM areas like Mind Spike (i.e. Non-StM talents don't work well with other talents, and seem almost like afterthoughts).
    From talking with them, no. Their play testers struggle to get past 90 stacks of voidform with StM. Shadow is not exactly skill gated either, atm it's put up and maintain dots, then follow the priority list.

    I wonder when they'll start talking about the real issues like the massive time sink that AP grinding is and how punishing it is if you miss a day or two at the competitive level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, did some tests with MH capped at 50 and 75 just to see what it would look like. StM was still ahead by at least 20k.

  2. #3302
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    From talking with them, no. Their play testers struggle to get past 90 stacks of voidform with StM. Shadow is not exactly skill gated either, atm it's put up and maintain dots, then follow the priority list.

    I wonder when they'll start talking about the real issues like the massive time sink that AP grinding is and how punishing it is if you miss a day or two at the competitive level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, did some tests with MH capped at 50 and 75 just to see what it would look like. StM was still ahead by at least 20k.
    Ahead of what?
    Capping MH wont fix the level 100 talent line but it is a fix for our excessive raid damage.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #3303
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Ahead of what?
    Capping MH wont fix the level 100 talent line but it is a fix for our excessive raid damage.
    Ahead of the other 2 100 talents. While no it wouldn't fix our over powering damage in StM, the issue at that point, would you run StM if it was only 20k and required absolutely perfect play?

    If that's the case why even bother running it when you can get slapped with punishing mechanics and then do 0 DPS.

  4. #3304
    Quote Originally Posted by Djriff View Post
    Ahead of the other 2 100 talents. While no it wouldn't fix our over powering damage in StM, the issue at that point, would you run StM if it was only 20k and required absolutely perfect play?

    If that's the case why even bother running it when you can get slapped with punishing mechanics and then do 0 DPS.
    And we are back to the usual argument.

    Yes StM with a death penalty has to be OP to be worth it.
    No Blizzard will not allow any class to be that OP.
    Yes removing the death penalty is the way to go.
    No Blizzard is not removing the death penalty.
    Yes when they are done 'balancing' StM it will be shit because the death penalty will not be worth it.
    Reroll.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  5. #3305
    Deleted
    From Q&A today: Reduced Insanity drain in the first 18 seconds isn't helping lower skill Surrender players.

    Didnt Lore write the other day that they did it exactly for that purpose? And today they say it didnt work out? Really? They REALLY just figured our that the problem with s2m and low skill players isnt about the first 18 seconds at all?

    Its things like these that make me wonder what kind of monkeys they have working at Blizzard. No wonder they are so slow with expansions, content, balancing, when it takes them weeks to just figure out a very simple thing like this. This is not pathetic, we are way beyond that point now.
    Last edited by mmoca542e793be; 2016-12-07 at 08:02 PM.

  6. #3306
    Dreadlord RsinRC's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    788
    There is a way and with @Gorsameth bringing points about StM. With how the dots changes are working out I believe reworking StM to be even more niche that it is now and still be strong but only in these scenarios and buffing our other 2 100 talents.

    What I was thinking is making StM work exactly like Void Eruption. Whenever you're ready to enter the StM's VF, instead of it being an instant ability that works on the next VF, it'll be an active cast ability. When you press it you cast a spell with the same cast time as Void Eruption but with a different name and maybe a different color Void Eruption animation color. This ability works up to 3 targets. The eruption applies a debuff per dot. Something that helps you with damage increased on target and increased insanity generation on the target. That way our dots wont be melting everything it's on but more concentrated on up to 3 targets.

    Being that there are places this can potentially be strong in, it won't dominate in too many situations like on live and are able to give the other two talents in our tier a well deserved buff to have all our talents a similar range in different fights.

  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by RsinRC View Post
    There is a way and with @Gorsameth bringing points about StM. With how the dots changes are working out I believe reworking StM to be even more niche that it is now and still be strong but only in these scenarios and buffing our other 2 100 talents.

    What I was thinking is making StM work exactly like Void Eruption. Whenever you're ready to enter the StM's VF, instead of it being an instant ability that works on the next VF, it'll be an active cast ability. When you press it you cast a spell with the same cast time as Void Eruption but with a different name and maybe a different color Void Eruption animation color. This ability works up to 3 targets. The eruption applies a debuff per dot. Something that helps you with damage increased on target and increased insanity generation on the target. That way our dots wont be melting everything it's on but more concentrated on up to 3 targets.

    Being that there are places this can potentially be strong in, it won't dominate in too many situations like on live and are able to give the other two talents in our tier a well deserved buff to have all our talents a similar range in different fights.
    Yes if you change StM into something that in no way resembles StM any more it might be balanced...
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #3308
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Reroll.
    Why reroll? Ask RsinRC to teach you how to play instead, the dude's doing 1 million dps on ptr:

    Quote Originally Posted by RsinRC View Post
    I tested it a few times and was still doing well over 1m dps.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  9. #3309
    So apparently Lore said
    The goal is robust alternatives to Surrender to Madness, but they aren't quite there yet.
    You what mate?
    LotV hasnt even been touched and Mind Spike got turned into a bad talent that active works against our playstyle...

    sigh
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #3310
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    LotV hasnt even been touched and Mind Spike got turned into a bad talent that active works against our playstyle...

    sigh
    Yeah but remember, they could still leave Mind Spike as it is now on live as a solution to that problem. BOOM!

  11. #3311
    Lore's only comment about shadow in the Q&A:

    "They really liked it, by the way. They really liked it when I said '18 seconds'. That was their favorite part. *smug grin*"

    What is wrong with this guy? Isn't this his job?

  12. #3312
    You know, it's funny-- if they just reverted Mind Spike to the live version, got rid of the AOE portion, and buffed it by a ton it could theoretically be a decent single target talent positioned as an alternate to Legacy of the Void, on fights where you don't want or need Mind Flay's passive cleave. Then, stick "Your Voidform damage bonus is increased by 10%" on LOTV, and that would be good but probably never beat S2M.

    But that would be too simple, I guess!

  13. #3313
    I mean, they could just switch positions of Twist of Fate and Legacy of the Void. This would balance out StM by not having Twist of Fate anymore and it would be a viable option for everybody who just dislikes StM. This would be a fairly easy fix for the StM issues. Nevertheless Legacy of the Void would still be pretty awful.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2016-12-07 at 09:57 PM.

  14. #3314
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I mean, they could just switch positions of Twist of Fate and Legacy of the Void. This would balance out StM by not having Twist of Fate anymore and it would be a viable option for everybody who just dislikes StM. This would be a fairly easy fix for the StM issues. Nevertheless Legacy of the Void would still be pretty awful.
    They need to buff lvl100 talents, not nerf us even more by stealing our good talents and placing them against StM.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  15. #3315
    No, actually, I think Nyel's on to something. Twist of Fate makes an absolute fool out of every other talent on that row, but Legacy of the Void is about the same level of pointless as Fortress and Shadow Word: Void.

    Twist of Fate is almost certainly worse than Surrender to Madness, but it's at least in the same league. S2M and ToF being mutually exclusive reigns in S2M without having to dick around with Mass Hysteria or nerf the insanity rate on S2M. Mind Spike is still useless, but.. well, it's Mind Spike.

  16. #3316
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    They need to buff lvl100 talents, not nerf us even more by stealing our good talents and placing them against StM.
    The thing is, instead of nerfing StM more and more they just could take away 20% execute damage by forcing us to choose between ToF and StM. Would solve two problems at once, the issue we have with ToF as a level 15 talent and the issue with StM in general. Sure, Mind Spike, Legacy of the Void and the level 15 talents are still pretty bad but it's a step into the right direction. Nerfing StM more and more isn't helping anyone.

  17. #3317
    eyes the nerf to voidform

    Good! That will do much more for getting StM balanced with the rest of the talents, especially when you add in that our base damage is getting buffed. The peaks and valleys of the VF dance was much too high.

  18. #3318
    Deleted
    its funny. Lore says "We're also increasing Shadow's damage across the board in the next build."
    and the patch notes read "Voidform (Shadow) Twists your Shadowform with the powers of the Void, increasing Shadow damage you deal by 30% -> 20%, reducing the cooldown on Mind Blast by 3 sec, and granting an additional 1% Haste every 1 sec."

    funny how that worked out huh

  19. #3319
    Deleted
    Is this a joke? REALLY?

  20. #3320
    new PTR build and apparently now we can add time to our dots with no limit???:



    it's not even a UI bug either, i legit watched it tick down the entire duration

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •