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  1. #21
    Edited my post on P1 and made a lot of comments about the guide, I hope it helps
    Last edited by Kis; 2016-07-15 at 07:16 PM.
    My Priest and my Logs

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Isentropy View Post
    The analysis of the level 90 talent row is completely wrong. Saying that Mind Spike works well with Void Ray is looking for synergies where none exist.
    Is this correct? If you're going to use a filler that deals more % of total damage, does it not synergize with a talent that buffs it? To put it in extremes, assuming same amount of globals used for filler and dmg is per global: If mind flay does 1k damage, buffing it with 50% would do nothing for total dps, while if mind spike does 100k damage, buffing it with 50% would be significant increase.

    Agreeing on everything else.

  3. #23
    Thank you for the time to write and update this guide, it is the best guide in the world atm and it will get better.

    My main is not priest so I dont really have time to read all that 440+ pages and this forum need some easy guide for other class to quickly understand how it work.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jullyx View Post
    Is this correct? If you're going to use a filler that deals more % of total damage, does it not synergize with a talent that buffs it? To put it in extremes, assuming same amount of globals used for filler and dmg is per global: If mind flay does 1k damage, buffing it with 50% would do nothing for total dps, while if mind spike does 100k damage, buffing it with 50% would be significant increase.

    Agreeing on everything else.
    There is synergy there on paper, but in practice Void Lord is better or equal with Void Ray anyway, and Void Lord has none of the restrictions that Void Ray does. Void Ray is a trap, and so is Mind Spike - presenting the two as having synergy with each other would imply that they're actually good together, but this is just not the case.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jsutan View Post
    Anyway, don't want to be disrespectful or anything and i certainly don't want him to just give up and say "f it". Just clean it up and vet it a little better before prepatch and make sure it's good before Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isentropy View Post
    I'd like to be clear that this is how I feel as well.
    My thoughts exactly, could've just polished/updated it for a couple more days instead of posting a placeholder one that people will inevitably read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Iceheart View Post
    <3 Garbage. :P
    :3
    Last edited by KalebPrime; 2016-07-15 at 09:09 PM. Reason: dun goofed

  6. #26
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    To be clear, the only reason that i posted it in it's far from finalized state was to get some discussion going on it. The google doc is going to be the main thing that I update, especially right now. I should have been cleared in stating that it is nowhere near ready, however I will put a big fat disclaimer on it to deter that some more. I'm not going to get upset by comments or flaming, just keep it civil and don't break the forum rules. I gladly welcome any and all constructive feedback, and honestly i may have jumped the gun a bit, i've never done something like this before and frankly i'm excited.

    @Isentropy Can you explain what you mean by the level 90 talent row being completely off?

    Reading through quite a few pages of discussion i feel that it's right unless i missed something huge?

    Like we want to use mindbender all the time, and power infusion and shadow crash have niche uses. Did i miss something?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jsutan View Post
    Anyway, don't want to be disrespectful or anything and i certainly don't want him to just give up and say "f it". Just clean it up and vet it a little better before prepatch and make sure it's good before Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isentropy View Post
    I'd like to be clear that this is how I feel as well.
    I knew there would be some issues, not everyone would agree with what i wrote (which is fine and why i posted it early), honestly i didn't exactly expect this amount of hostility :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Kis View Post
    5. Stat priority:

    This isn't right. In this section there should be talk about what each stat does, how much of the stat at 110 it takes for 1% of each stat, how different talents influence our stats. This is of course down to sims mostly.
    Haste>Crit>Mastery as a general rule of thumb should be alright - Mastery does gain a lot of weight though with shorter fight, councilfights, adds you can dot and is basically StM-heaven. Thus you shouldn't give only the "one-true-king" answer in the stat priority section. Could even be made into an "advanced mechanics" section.
    Just to address this, the stat weight discussion started about a week ago, before that everyone knew haste was the best and crit and mastery were somehwere in regards to each other. I'm working down the guide from top to bottom and i'll get there.

    6. Gear & Legendarys:

    Links and stuff are not working, but you already mentioned fixing that. There could be a description for each legendary and cases where this specific legendary could be useful. Good legendaries are those that increase DPS. Bad legendarys are all other legendaries. (JK, but they are, in most cases, strictly worse, from a raid PoV)

    Without links, this section looks bare. Gemming & Enchanting could be explained like or do the links already show that? If so, nevermind this:

    Gem X (+250 Haste) - cheaper
    Gem Y (+350 Haste) - best

    Enchant X (increases X for Y amount for W secs) - best
    So when i researched all of that stuff, i don't know if it was wowhead or wowdb just not having it or if there was a huge shift in enchanting/tailoring but i couldn't actually find anything regarding weapon enchants or stuff that actually described what the enchant does in terms of numbers, i'll take another look since it's been awhile.

    I'll be adding links for MMO-C. Like i said above, the current link formatting is what wowhead uses and not what mmo-c recognizes. I'll be making the conversion and formatting changes when i finalize everything up (to a point).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabraham View Post
    I felt my critique was pretty constructive?
    I was not aiming it at you, sorry if you felt that way. There's a difference between "lol u suck" and what you wrote

    Some of those people just came here because they found an opportunity to bash MMO-C.

    The guide itself isn't perfect and I don't think anyone thought it was.

    But hey, we already have people justifying the uncalled flame, like I said, that what's wrong with the community

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    You could also make the case that it is exactly how a void worshiping insane priest would react to being told how to act by a different void worshiping insane priest. Of course I could just be looking at it with a glass half full POV... lol... /steps back into the shadows
    I like you.
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    Homophobia is so gay.

  8. #28
    The first version of my CoP guide was labeled a piece of trash and a waste of time, and I was told by a half a dozen people that no one would ever take it seriously, etc..

    All guides are a work in progress from the moment you start them. They are also organic, changing almost daily and throughout the expansion as players' mindsets change and meta changes. New raids and requirements will change what people think of the class. New gear will change the class. Sometimes new theorycrafting will change people's perception of what talents are good or bad.

    Writing a class guide in the WoW community is like trying to juggle bowling pins while balancing on a ball with a plate of fruit on your head, while having a crowd of onlookers constantly telling you how badly you're doing it.

    I wrote a shadowpriest guide for two expansions, and the one constant through all of that is that it felt like a full time job, and I never stopped updating it or working on it from the moment I posted it until the end of the expac. I put more hours into them than I did my real life job, and that meant working on it at work and at home. Waking up in the middle of the night and adding to it when I should be sleeping. Spending my weekends doing simulations and tests in game on some new trinket when I'd rather be doing just about anything else.

    I probably sunk a hundred hours or more over the course of about 5 months working on APLs for RoW, with absolutely no help or interest from outside sources. It is a lonely job, and there is no pay, except for this feeling of satisfaction that you hopefully helped a few people. And a few weeks after the expac is over, your guide gets unstickied and you are immediately forgotten.

    I'm not saying don't criticize. By all means, do. This is meant both for the people doing the criticizing, and for DJRiff too. To the people criticizing, be constructive and stick around to help make the guide and the community better. Don't just fly in and say "it sucks" then leave. To DJRiff, have a thick skin and keep at it, and don't let people get to you. Any time you put anything out there, people will criticize, try to see through what they are saying and see if anything useful can be gotten out of their words. Sometimes you can ignore people, but even the most tactless criticisms sometimes have a valid point to make that needs addressing.

    Finally, if anyone expecting a "near perfect" guide to appear before it gets published... that's ridiculous. The first 5 or 6 versions are never perfect. I probably rewrote my guide ten times before I was happy with it, but without people's feedback, it never would have gotten to that point. At some point you just have to put it out there and start working on it in an organic way. The state of the guide should be a reflection of the community here, so if you want to be a part of it, help add to it. A good guide writer's job is to listen to the community and mold the guide to reflect everyone's opinions and feedback.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    DPS Loss - my guild on Proudmoore
    The Old Guard - my guild on Earthen Ring
    Revenant - my guild on Echo Isles

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire
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    As a returning player I appreciate the effort and the fluidity you're committing to here DJRiff. I've been away for so long (guild dissolved during WoD) so anything to make my return easier is appreciated.

  10. #30
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Well I made a list of stuff to fix and do over the weekend, then life kind of caught up, funny how that happens. Right now my priority is getting something out today for the pre patch which hits tomorrow. Basically what gear you want to be using, talents, etc etc.

  11. #31
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    My apologies for not getting this up last night as was my intention, RL caught up yet again (has a nasty habit of doing that). I'll continue updating this as we get a lot more feedback and experience with other priests. Majority of this is from the discussions we've had here on MMO-C and what I've talked about with other priests. If you disagree with something in the guide, then please constructively leave some feedback and I will happily make changes.

  12. #32
    Field Marshal MissAnonymous's Avatar
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    Some questions I've come up with in the midst of testing out my dps on the target dummy:

    1. While in Voidform, if your SW:P falls off right before your first Voidbolt hits, is it worth reapplying it in place of one of your fillers or should it be done right away? (I guess I should ask the same question for Vampiric Touch though I have yet to have this happen to me.)

    2. Is there any dps loss in Insanity capping? This is only really possible immediately after entering Voidform, but sometimes I'll end up having Mind Blast followed immediately by Voidbolt as soon as I enter Voidform, and it seems like my Mind Blast caps my Insanity, leaving my Voidbolt to add nothing to my Insanity.

    3. Is there any benefit (or detriment) to going over 70 Insanity when using LotV? Such as if my Mind Blast comes off cd when I'm at 60-65 Insanity, and I know using Mind Blast will put me way over 70, is it better to hold onto my Mind Blast for Voidform or go ahead and use it?

    4. Is there a crit cutoff for when AS overtakes San'layn or is AS just always better?

    Thanks!

  13. #33
    Mind Sear generates 1 Insanity per target per tick and has 1 instant tick at start.
    Also it should be used as filler at 3+ targets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MissAnonymous View Post
    Some questions I've come up with in the midst of testing out my dps on the target dummy:

    1. While in Voidform, if your SW:P falls off right before your first Voidbolt hits, is it worth reapplying it in place of one of your fillers or should it be done right away? (I guess I should ask the same question for Vampiric Touch though I have yet to have this happen to me.)

    2. Is there any dps loss in Insanity capping? This is only really possible immediately after entering Voidform, but sometimes I'll end up having Mind Blast followed immediately by Voidbolt as soon as I enter Voidform, and it seems like my Mind Blast caps my Insanity, leaving my Voidbolt to add nothing to my Insanity.

    3. Is there any benefit (or detriment) to going over 70 Insanity when using LotV? Such as if my Mind Blast comes off cd when I'm at 60-65 Insanity, and I know using Mind Blast will put me way over 70, is it better to hold onto my Mind Blast for Voidform or go ahead and use it?

    4. Is there a crit cutoff for when AS overtakes San'layn or is AS just always better?

    Thanks!
    1. You have 2 gcd before your first VB. In this time you will want to cast MB or refresh your dots if they fell off and you didn't manage to reapply them in time (~1.5 sec left when you will hit VB). If you however missed it and notice at the impact of the first VB, you can reapply it, but i would suggest casting MB, if available, before reapplying since it has a higher insanity generation and DPS.
    Rule of thumb is: you need roughly 5-6 seconds from starting the Voideruption to your VB actually hitting.

    2. It should not be that bad in early stacks since you will most likely cap again with the following VB.

    3. Yeah because you will want to cap Insanity in the first few seconds so you gain the maximum number of stacks (important for legion min max, not so much in pre patch). If you won't , you can loose like 1 - 2 stacks and mb a VB in that VF.

    4. AS generates Insanity so it is worth in most scenarios. You should aim at 20%+ crit. When playing way below that you should consider using Shadowy Insight instead.
    Last edited by N1gh7h4wk; 2016-07-19 at 07:20 PM.

  14. #34
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N1gh7h4wk View Post
    Mind Sear generates 1 Insanity per target per tick and has 1 instant tick at start.
    Also it should be used as filler at 3+ targets.
    Thanks, i was trying to find the exact rate of gain and couldn't.

  15. #35
    Is there a haste breakpoint or should I just stack the most haste as possible?

    Also, should I keep using RoW or switch to another trinket?

  16. #36
    Fluffy Kitten Djriff's Avatar
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    Stack as much as possible, RoW for ST and i've been using Orb of Voidsight otherwise, even on non demon bosses it's nice.

  17. #37

  18. #38
    Did anyone see that Doom Lord Kazzak is now dropping Heroic pieces? 820?

    That means the Heroic Chipped Soul Prism is going to be super BiS

  19. #39
    High Overlord marathal's Avatar
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    thank you for updating. All I can determine for the short time I was on tonight is it will take me a long time to figure this all out and get comfortable playing.

    Plus side, I have two years to do it.


  20. #40
    What trinkets are people going to use atm?

    Also, is the phylactery a good choice? It has int and haste on it.

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