Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

[Edge-]

Not only did they kill off EverQuest Next, they lured people in with the premise to talk about it in more detail only to announce this game instead.

...what? EQN was being made by Daybreak, this is being made by McQuaid who hasn't been with the company since they were still SOE and Vanguard was still running. Not to mention this game was announced and made its first crowdfunding attempt long before EQN was canceled.

I am really emotional about this although in the interest of Objectivity they probably deserve a fourth chance if Peter Molyneux had like six.

To be fair, this would be McQuaid's second chance, with Vanguard being his first (and being a disaster). Things seem to be going pretty well for an indie affair so far, so hopefully he can keep on chugging.

[Venziir]

... That gameplay trailer sure isn't doing anything good for the game.

[Edge-]

... That gameplay trailer sure isn't doing anything good for the game.

From OP? Because that's not a trailer, it's a livestream of an early build of the game. I don't think they're even at alpha status yet, so the games obviously going to look super rough.

[Slaughty8]

I want a game that will give me a reason to keep playing for years, not weeks.

And I have too many great games (and life) to play for years, so I want mmo that won't again drain my lifetime in the amount of said years. On my list I have +100 games from this year that are interesting and worth a try, and 56 more that will be released in 2017, more will come. So there is no point in grinding in old-school upcoming mmos like Pantheon, better enjoy new products and life.
Why should I ever waste my time on grinding and timesinks while I can simply enjoy "the new (GW2, ESO, SWTOR, WoW: Legion)" mmos + the over 150 great games I mentioned which are on my list + life and everything in it. The list I have will surely take me years and still I wont play all of them and it's okay, I also got many places to visit and enjoy + books + whatever you can think of that normal person does.
So instead of being against casual-friendly mmos which are not timesinks, just accept that people grow up and don't have much time for games but still want to enjoy them. And the new generation of players is also not interested in the old-school timesink mmos, they simply don't have time for this, they prefer fast products and I 100% understand them. Life, work, hobbies, your body's health + more irl stuff are the only things you should grind And grinding in mmo can't be a hobby, sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

I think both approaches are wrong. Endless grind is wrong, and getting everything for free is wrong.

What I would like is a game with meaningful experience. I don't care how long or short it is, but I want it to be enjoyable. I don't want to "work" towards something; I have a job for that. I want to enjoy living in a virtual world - and sadly so far I've only seen one MMO offering that, Ultima Online, and that is extremely outdated. Ironically, games like TES series, single player games, give me a much better feeling of the open world with real people in it, than MMORPGs.

Maybe this game will deliver? Will see.

Hopefully No Man's Sky will fulfill these needs, at least for a while. I also want an mmo into which I can simply jump and live a little in the virtual world.

[Venziir]

From OP? Because that's not a trailer, it's a livestream of an early build of the game. I don't think they're even at alpha status yet, so the games obviously going to look super rough.

Yes from the OP, I suppose I worded it badly when I typed "gameplay trailer", if it seemed as if I meant cinematic trailer or something akin to that. That aside; I'm not sure even "super rough" is close enough to being precise; I mean, jeebus, it looks like something from '06.

[Enitzu]

It's an MMO. It'll never NOT be "easy", and "working hard" will just involve grinding and timesinks.

Seriously, all you "hardcore" types that keep harping on this stuff are just barking up the wrong tree. This isn't the genre for what you're looking for, you really should try one of the harder competitive games or something instead of constantly complaining about "casuals" and "LFR mentality" in a genre that's designed to be easy.

That's pretty much my point. Pantheon is based on NOT being one of the casual/LFR based gameplay. One of the only ones currently. It isn't being mass marketed and isn't planning to cater to the "I want it now" crowd. If that's not your cup of tea then so be it but there are a lot of people that want this gameplay again. It's why there are still over 100k people playing the original EQ right now.

Right. Wildstar went right into the fucking toilet, and this design seems even more niche than that game was.

Wildstar went into the toilet for a lot of reasons, pretty sure how hard the game was wasn't one of them. Maybe the fact that instead of focusing on content they preferred to give into the whinny masses and change everything to make the game easier. Wildstar raiding was great. Leveling was decent. End game grind wasn't really that bad at all. Even though we had all our raid flagged and raiding in under 2 weeks, most of the casual playerbase whinned for a month that it was too hard. So they nerfed it. Then nerfed it again. Then nerfed the entire game. Then made it into a wanna be wow except they havent really put out new end game content in 3 years. So yea Wildstar died, but not because it was hard or a niche game. Because the people running it are freaking idiots is why it died.

You guys don't want a hard game that requires a time investment, fine, stay with wow/lol/etc. But don't knock a game that many other people are looking forward too because they are tired of playing games that put them to sleep facerolling on a keyboard.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think Enitzu you are being too *hardcore*

Most MMos aren't really hard or challenging in it's overall design. It's also very telling you mentioned *casual/LFR* as if it's just synonymous with each other. I think you have a good amount of arrogance on your part.

[Enitzu]

Yes from the OP, I suppose I worded it badly when I typed "gameplay trailer", if it seemed as if I meant cinematic trailer or something akin to that. That aside; I'm not sure even "super rough" is close enough to being precise; I mean, jeebus, it looks like something from '06.

It's being made with possibly the smallest budget of any MMO in 15 years. It's not going to come out looking like legion. Hell it's not even industry vets making it aside from McQuaid. You won't come back even in a year and see Legion-esque graphics in this game. But you would see good principles and gameplay which is what makes the game.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Enitzu you are being too *hardcore*

Every MMO i've tried hasn't ever been *hard*. Time consuming yes but not hard.

Not trying to be 'hardcore'. I just prefer the group centric games. I don't want to solo my way to cap and raid gear. I want an MMO to actually be a multiplayer game. Not a solo game with a chat room attached to it.

What MMOs have you played? Judging by your youtube channel, I'd say SWTOR and WOW ... neither of which have ever be deamed hard. Vanilla wow was about the best wow had to offer before the swap over to mass market. Go play EQ or FFXI, preferably on an emulator so you get the original non-dumbed down versions. Then you can see the type of MMO this game is catering to.

[Justpassing]

Is it just me who thought this is about WoW Titans, "Pantheon" and all?

[Enitzu]

And I have too many great games (and life) to play for years, so I want mmo that won't again drain my lifetime in the amount of said years. On my list I have +100 games from this year that are interesting and worth a try, and 56 more that will be released in 2017, more will come. So there is no point in grinding in old-school upcoming mmos like Pantheon, better enjoy new products and life.
Why should I ever waste my time on grinding and timesinks while I can simply enjoy "the new (GW2, ESO, SWTOR, WoW: Legion)" mmos + the over 150 great games I mentioned which are on my list + life and everything in it. The list I have will surely take me years and still I wont play all of them and it's okay, I also got many places to visit and enjoy + books + whatever you can think of that normal person does.
So instead of being against casual-friendly mmos which are not timesinks, just accept that people grow up and don't have much time for games but still want to enjoy them. And the new generation of players is also not interested in the old-school timesink mmos, they simply don't have time for this, they prefer fast products and I 100% understand them. Life, work, hobbies, your body's health + more irl stuff are the only things you should grind And grinding in mmo can't be a hobby, sorry.

No reason to be sorry. Like I said this game isn't for everyone. But there are people who want that type of game. Just like there are those that want the more single player console type games. Nothing wrong with that. The OP was just getting word out for those that do want this type of game.

- - - Updated - - -

Except EQ isn't even the same game as "original EQ" anymore, so there's that. It's actually more "want it now" in a lot of ways than WoW.



1) It won't be "hard". MMOs are not designed to be "hard".

2) No, I don't want a game that disrespects my time, which is what MMOs generally do. It's not like the 100 hours you spend farming the Waddledoodle of Doom was actually 100 hours of quality content, it's just the same 5 minutes repeated 1,200 times because they want to keep you paying with a minimum of effort.

- - - Updated - - -



Are you really going to hold EQ up as an example of a hard game?

No game is 'hard' for a good player. They say Dark Souls is hard ... I don't think so. You don't want to play the game, cool. But no reason to try to talk others out of it. I'm just passing information for people who may want to try it out. For those that don't live and breath wow in all its utter casual glory. For those that want to log on and have things to do everyday other than raid logging because you can't deal with the boredom. But hey, there are always 52000 other casual Hello Kitty type games out there to spend your time on.

[Enitzu]

You just can't help yourself here with the attempts at condescending toward "casuals", can you?

You're acting like valuing your own time is something to be mocked, which is pretty funny.

You mean the same way you are condescending people for being interested in the opposite? I value my time the same as anyone else. That's why the time I do spend in a game I want it to be memorable and worth it.

[Enitzu]

Perhaps, but your language is off the mark. There was nothing "hard" about EQ. In fact, the actual content in progression raiding in WoW is probably a whole order of magnitude more challenging than anything in EQ. Still easy compared to other genres, but a hell of a lot more challenging than a CH rotation and auto-attacking for an hour.

So yeah, you're not talking about games that are actually challenging, you're talking about games that follow the, "Mediocrity masquerading as greatness by way of having more time to spend." model. Which is why I object to the verbiage that is typically used to describe those games.

Combat in general in EQ was not hard at all for any class. Maybe tanks, they had it a bit rough comparably. What made raiding difficult, or rather fun, back then was the fact that instancing did not exist and most mobs were on 3-7 day timers. So you either beat out the other guilds to them or you just didn't raid. It gave us a reason to be online and looking for things to do each day because you never knew when that scramble was coming to get to a boss before the others. But ultimately you are correct, the time sinks back in those days most people can't or won't handle anymore. It's a shame really when that is what made it a lot more fun for me. Accomplishment was a great feeling. Now a days I can lvl to max and be geared out to current in a week.

[ro9ue]

Is it just me who thought this is about WoW Titans, "Pantheon" and all?

Titans and Pantheon existed longggg before WoW. See Greek Mythology. Those concepts were just reused by a popular game so most people know them as that and not the actual origin. There are also a ton of other games that use Pantheons and Titans.


On the topic of hardcore games "going down the toilet" like Wildstar and such. Wildstar went into it thinking their return to hardcore stuff was going to be extremely popular, which is why they put millions into it. That was their mistake. Here I think the developers know they are building a game for a small audience.

[Justpassing]

Titans and Pantheon existed longggg before WoW. See Greek Mythology. Those concepts were just reused by a popular game so most people know them as that and not the actual origin. There are also a ton of other games that use Pantheons and Titans.

The shit you say? Wow!

[Venziir]

It's being made with possibly the smallest budget of any MMO in 15 years. It's not going to come out looking like legion. Hell it's not even industry vets making it aside from McQuaid. You won't come back even in a year and see Legion-esque graphics in this game. But you would see good principles and gameplay which is what makes the game.

- - - Updated - - -



Not trying to be 'hardcore'. I just prefer the group centric games. I don't want to solo my way to cap and raid gear. I want an MMO to actually be a multiplayer game. Not a solo game with a chat room attached to it.

What MMOs have you played? Judging by your youtube channel, I'd say SWTOR and WOW ... neither of which have ever be deamed hard. Vanilla wow was about the best wow had to offer before the swap over to mass market. Go play EQ or FFXI, preferably on an emulator so you get the original non-dumbed down versions. Then you can see the type of MMO this game is catering to.

Maybe. But what I saw in that video, was terrible. It didn't show anything worth ever talking about again. Is that subject to change? Of course. Does that change the fact that what I saw was something that looked like it was 10 years old, both grafically and gameplay wise? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -

Titans and Pantheon existed longggg before WoW. See Greek Mythology. Those concepts were just reused by a popular game so most people know them as that and not the actual origin. There are also a ton of other games that use Pantheons and Titans.


On the topic of hardcore games "going down the toilet" like Wildstar and such. Wildstar went into it thinking their return to hardcore stuff was going to be extremely popular, which is why they put millions into it. That was their mistake. Here I think the developers know they are building a game for a small audience.

A Pantheon has nothing to do with greek mythology, per se, it simply just means a cluster of gods/goddesses.

[Enitzu]

Maybe. But what I saw in that video, was terrible. It didn't show anything worth ever talking about again. Is that subject to change? Of course. Does that change the fact that what I saw was something that looked like it was 10 years old, both grafically and gameplay wise? Nope.

That's what happens when they release pre alpha footage. No game looks good in pre alpha lol. That's why I said check back in a year when it's into a beta. When it's more polished and somewhat complete rather than a bare bones basic skeleton structure

[ro9ue]

A Pantheon has nothing to do with greek mythology, per se, it simply just means a cluster of gods/goddesses.

Yep I know, that was just the best example I could think of.

[lawow74]

the Waddledoodle of Doom

Quoted for awesome. I think I'd be willing to spend 100 hours farming just so everyone could be in awe of my Waddledoodle of Doom, which I picture as being a glow-in-the-dark neon purple rubber chicken with bright red eyes.

[ro9ue]

Just an update:

https://twitter.com/Aradune/status/801842781387792385
Pantheon is streaming on Twitch Dec 9th.

Also:
http://www.mmorpg.com/pantheon-rise-...ams-1000011323

Not everyone dreams of being at the helm of an MMO cruise ship, but it’s fair to say that most video game developers want to have a hand in guiding the journey of their respective enterprises. A studio equipped with near-infinite resources may be able to support a large team on a trip to the stars, but a smaller group of schooners can do the job with a bit more agility and excitement.


Working on Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is an incredible team experience for a number of reasons. Chief among these is the ability to tap into a love for the source material, which is shared across all of the departments at Visionary Realms. As a group of seasoned MMO developers and fans, we’re able to share an enthusiasm that could otherwise get lost in the mix of a larger team that, by necessity, would be required to step outside of its respective genre to move a project along. Commensurately, every aspect of Pantheon that gets touched - from crafting new game regions to sharing the latest screens with our community - is met with the same excitement as playing the latest build.

As a comparatively small team, we’re able to navigate our fleet of schooners with more flexibility than what’s become the norm for MMO development. Extending the already-tenuous nautical analogy, a cruise ship can make a huge amount of progress in one direction, but is found wanting when the need arises to turn on a dime. When problems arise, as they inevitably do, the team here is able to triage them quickly, setting a new course that takes us closer to our target, with minimal amount of impact to our development process.




Part of what makes game development work with such a small team is a continual reinforcement of communication and collaboration. Our Skype channels are veritable beehives of conversation at all hours of the day, given the multitude of time zones represented by the group. We’re constantly talking about what we can do better, and how we can streamline our workflows to be even more efficient. We share a commitment to collaboration rather than competition, with the explicit knowledge that if we’re each not able to roll up our sleeves and get scrappy, no one else is going to pick up the slack for us.

Working on a game like Pantheon is as close to the metal as a fan of the MMO genre can get. From participating in focused playtests, to collaborating with members from various departments, to interfacing with our extremely dedicated and vibrant community, every step of the journey is filled with learning and reward. It’s an expedition to which all of us are committed for the long haul, and we can’t wait to share each milestone with you as we get closer to our destination.


Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/pantheon-rise-...puMdhfjv1Ef.99

[Kuntantee]

This game looks out of 2005 to be honest.