[7.2 Guide] Protection - Back with Vengeance

[slashroar]

Can I ask for the source on these stat weights?

Combination of several different things.

1. Marok's work on trying to define stat weights - mmo-champion.com /threads/1892699-Protection-legion-Discussion/page71?p=42198650#post42198650
2. More from Marok - mmo-champion.com /threads/1892699-Protection-legion-Discussion?p=42304937#post42304937
3. The first two points were pre-IP nerf. The IP nerf, IMO, hit versatility harder than Mastery (Mastery not only increases IP, but increases block which wasn't affected)
4. Review of recent Warcraftlogs rankings for Prot warrior EHRPS. Most of the top ranking warriors over the past 2-3 weeks have been stacking mastery>vers=haste. That's my general observation but I don't really have the time or desire to try and extract the data to put together actual numbers. All of those are based on player skill as well (there are some high rankings by people with more haste, and even high crit) but the trend seems to be people stacking mastery in the high rankings

Had to break the links because I'm not old enough to post links yet

[Llarold]

Combination of several different things.

1. Marok's work on trying to define stat weights - mmo-champion.com /threads/1892699-Protection-legion-Discussion/page71?p=42198650#post42198650
2. More from Marok - mmo-champion.com /threads/1892699-Protection-legion-Discussion?p=42304937#post42304937
3. The first two points were pre-IP nerf. The IP nerf, IMO, hit versatility harder than Mastery (Mastery not only increases IP, but increases block which wasn't affected)
4. Review of recent Warcraftlogs rankings for Prot warrior EHRPS. Most of the top ranking warriors over the past 2-3 weeks have been stacking mastery>vers=haste. That's my general observation but I don't really have the time or desire to try and extract the data to put together actual numbers. All of those are based on player skill as well (there are some high rankings by people with more haste, and even high crit) but the trend seems to be people stacking mastery in the high rankings

Had to break the links because I'm not old enough to post links yet

That's a pretty valid point regarding the IP nerf's effects on Mastery and Vers. Although KRSI and EHRPS are pretty dubious metrics for comparing between classes, EHRPS is effective for comparing who requires more heals over time within a single class. Very cut and dry.

The only real issue with stacking Haste to 30% is that it does fall off in value when taunt swapping, which is a common occurrence in EN, but ultimately an encounter-specific situation. That difference of ~1625 secondary stats in going from 30% Haste down to 25% is a meaningful defensive increase if you can shift it into Mastery or Vers.

The problem comes when you *do* have to tank a primary target for 100% of an encounter while only wearing 25% Haste. You sacrifice a lot of defense by not being able to maintain Shield Block, and that disparity will only grow in The Nighthold with t19 set bonuses (20% Crit Block while SB is active, Crit Blocks give 5 Rage). The best way to approach gearing, then, is to have stat stick trinkets or other pieces (jewelry, ideally) that you can swap around to pick up or dump Haste depending on how much time will be spent actively tanking.

[booi]

Combination of several different things.

1. Marok's work on trying to define stat weights - mmo-champion.com /threads/1892699-Protection-legion-Discussion/page71?p=42198650#post42198650
2. More from Marok - mmo-champion.com /threads/1892699-Protection-legion-Discussion?p=42304937#post42304937
3. The first two points were pre-IP nerf. The IP nerf, IMO, hit versatility harder than Mastery (Mastery not only increases IP, but increases block which wasn't affected)
4. Review of recent Warcraftlogs rankings for Prot warrior EHRPS. Most of the top ranking warriors over the past 2-3 weeks have been stacking mastery>vers=haste. That's my general observation but I don't really have the time or desire to try and extract the data to put together actual numbers. All of those are based on player skill as well (there are some high rankings by people with more haste, and even high crit) but the trend seems to be people stacking mastery in the high rankings

Had to break the links because I'm not old enough to post links yet

The problem with Marok's posts is that he neither posts the apl of the warrior being used or that of the boss being fought. The limited apl's I've seen from other people's SIMs have the bosses meleeing for 264k (or wahtever the default is) when bosses like mythic Ursoc are hitting for 2.5 million.

I am not a mythic raider anymore, and am reluctant to post the results for my toon since i am undergeared (872). I tend to use a different talent setup than most warriors - since I'm largely plugging around in mythic plus. Consistently when I sim against a realistic scenerio for my toon (single target or multi target) versatility comes out - far and away - on top.

I had been hoping that a mythic raider would be posting their complete sims for comparison.

[slashroar]

The problem with Marok's posts is that he neither posts the apl of the warrior being used or that of the boss being fought. The limited apl's I've seen from other people's SIMs have the bosses meleeing for 264k (or wahtever the default is) when bosses like mythic Ursoc are hitting for 2.5 million.

I am not a mythic raider anymore, and am reluctant to post the results for my toon since i am undergeared (872). I tend to use a different talent setup than most warriors - since I'm largely plugging around in mythic plus. Consistently when I sim against a realistic scenerio for my toon (single target or multi target) versatility comes out - far and away - on top.

I had been hoping that a mythic raider would be posting their complete sims for comparison.

Are you using SimCraft? It's my understanding that SimCraft does not currently sim Protection Warriors accurately due to not accounting for Artifact traits.

I don't think that's "the problem" with Marok's posts. Marok's posts make it clear that there isn't really a direct 100% answer to stat weights for Prot right now. With that understanding, we've got a few options:

1. Go with his (or other theorycrafters') weights (which are outdated now anyways due to the nerfs)
2. Sim it yourself to get weights (I don't know what, if any, simulation tools are accurate ATM.)
3. "Best guess" it based on understanding of talents and artifact trait, and your current gear options.
4. Extrapolate from rankings on Warcraftlogs. You can find people successfully stacking all of the secondary stats, but primarily they are Mastery>Vers/Haste>Crit

Mix and match the above. I tend more toward 3 and 4, while keeping an eye on whatever theorycrafting/numbercrunching other people post.

Side note: your ilvl isn't low. I'm 5/7M at 874.

[Tyze]

So all this theory crafting.
Is Mastery and Versatility viable? Because my co tank is a Paladin and his main stat is haste, would be nice not to fight over same stats.

[Zortorai90]

So, can I get a consult?
I currently got the legendary Gloves and Wrists equipped, but today The Walls Fell in raid.
Which two do I use? The Gloves/Wrist combo for the excellent healing? Or the ring for reduced Shield Wall.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rperior/simple
Armoury link if needed.

[booi]

Are you using SimCraft? It's my understanding that SimCraft does not currently sim Protection Warriors accurately due to not accounting for Artifact traits.

I don't think that's "the problem" with Marok's posts. Marok's posts make it clear that there isn't really a direct 100% answer to stat weights for Prot right now. With that understanding, we've got a few options:

Yeah, using simC, wasn't aware of the artifact issue.

But I think that illustrates exactly why it is important to post sim results when advocating for specific stat weights. Not only to review the APLs to determine if they make sense, but it also provides an opportunity for someone to say "hey, it looks like you're not getting the 15% crit from your shield slam trait". There's simply no opportunity to do that when someone says "i ran a bunch of sims and here is what i found".

I suspect that some of the traits on some of the classes function correctly in simC. I assume the issue just rests with the prot warrior trait tree? I'll try to set aside some time this week to see what Collision needs help with to get prot where it needs to be.

- - - Updated - - -

So, can I get a consult?
I currently got the legendary Gloves and Wrists equipped, but today The Walls Fell in raid.
Which two do I use? The Gloves/Wrist combo for the excellent healing? Or the ring for reduced Shield Wall.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rperior/simple
Armoury link if needed.

I would say that unless you need another shield wall use for an encounter, or the cooldown reduction for a specific ability - stick with the wrists.

• they're better itemized
• have strength at an 895 budget
• both your other rings already have sockets (so you won't gain more value because of the socket)

If you find yourself short on CDs in m+, you could use the ring there. I will note that at face value i prefer the idea of the cooldown reduction over the 1% heal. That is likely because I'm a dungeon whore. In raids I doubt the CD reduction really buys you anything with the number of externals available.

[slashroar]

Yeah, using simC, wasn't aware of the artifact issue.

But I think that illustrates exactly why it is important to post sim results when advocating for specific stat weights. Not only to review the APLs to determine if they make sense, but it also provides an opportunity for someone to say "hey, it looks like you're not getting the 15% crit from your shield slam trait". There's simply no opportunity to do that when someone says "i ran a bunch of sims and here is what i found".

I suspect that some of the traits on some of the classes function correctly in simC. I assume the issue just rests with the prot warrior trait tree? I'll try to set aside some time this week to see what Collision needs help with to get prot where it needs to be.

Agreed. Transparency makes it a lot easier to accept someone's work as accurate. I imagine that his weights were close enough, based on the performance of prot with versatility stacked prior to the nerf, but it's impossible to really know without seeing the details. I was more accepting of his numbers as "probably close" because he was at least up front about the numbers possibly not being accurate due to various reasons.

The SimCraft prot artifact thing isn't something I've checked myself due to time constraints, so take even that with a grain of salt. I am interested to see if you guys are able to make any progress.

[Tyze]

So Mastery and versatility after 25% haste?
Food with haste if you dont have 25%?

[Llarold]

So Mastery and versatility after 25% haste?
Food with haste if you dont have 25%?

That's a pretty safe play, yeah.

- - - Updated - - -

So, can I get a consult?
I currently got the legendary Gloves and Wrists equipped, but today The Walls Fell in raid.

The gloves are your BiS Legendary, so keep them on at all times.
The Walls Fell is solid for any situation in which you're needing to Shield Wall often, or at least more often. I would at least set it up for, say, M-Ursoc and Mythic Keystone pushing. It's not as well-itemized as your bracers, and you have two really good rings already, so I wouldn't change your current setup for typical content unless you have a great pair of bracers in waiting.

[Tyze]

Best Mythic + talents?

[Llarold]

Best Mythic + talents?

Pretty much the standard set.

Crackling Thunder is also fine, and the Avatar/Booming Voice combo is really prevalent in higher level M+ where you absolutely need the tank dps.

[booi]

Best Mythic + talents?

If you're doing ten with tyrannical, or seven with skittering I'd recommend safeguard.

[Deleted]

I just got kokushan's (the hands) for single target so I still spam devastate for procs or I can just devastate and revenge for 7 rage?

[Tyze]

Why does the top two on warcraftlogs going with Avatar (acceptable) but also Booming Voice? :S

[Toybox]

Why does the top two on warcraftlogs going with Avatar (acceptable) but also Booming Voice? :S

Because the burst damage is crazy, especially when combined with an Old War potion.

[Llarold]

Why does the top two on warcraftlogs going with Avatar (acceptable) but also Booming Voice? :S

You combine the two by popping Avatar and Demo Shout at the same time. Layer Battle Cry, Old War, trinket procs, etc. onto it and you have the massive, massive burst damage required to crush packs of Mythic 15 trash.

- - - Updated - - -

I just got kokushan's (the hands) for single target so I still spam devastate for procs or I can just devastate and revenge for 7 rage?

The window for Revenge gets a little wider, but it's mostly still Devastate spam.
Basically, instead of the single target priority being "Revenge only if Shield Slam is 1 GCD from coming off CD," it's "Revenge only if Shield Slam is 2 GCD from coming off CD, then hit Devastate, then Shield Slam."

[Tyze]

Because the burst damage is crazy, especially when combined with an Old War potion.

Ah alright, I personally love Avatar but I want as much survivabily as possible. So I guess still Ultimatum and Vengeance?

[Deleted]

I have a +9 ilevel relic but it'd replace my dragon skin (+2% ip), it's still not worth it even with +9ilevel (it's a revenge of the fallen relic).

Ah alright, I personally love Avatar but I want as much survivabily as possible. So I guess still Ultimatum and Vengeance?

Yeah, you use avatar for when you need burst since nuking is easier than tanking up like a man.

[Chrno]

i am so jalous of all you people with the legendary gloves ^^ ... i really hope the stars allign at some point so that i can get my hands on those as well ;p