Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Deleted]

I've uploaded the trinket sims here:
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Tried to add some more qapla combos (only had one in previous list). Also realized that I was still replacing BTI with KJ in the BM sims when it should have been convergence replaced after the nerf.

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wait you dont use convergence of fates with the wrists? what trinkets you use with the sims? Cause i assume that CoF with wrists is still almost obligatory to actually give decent numbers?

[Deleted]

No sim love for Qapla, I can't see how it isn't in top 3-4 combos unless simcraft just cannot use the boots effectively.

The current BM APL does not change at all when using the boots which makes them undervalued in simc.

[Effinhunter]

wait you dont use convergence of fates with the wrists? what trinkets you use with the sims? Cause i assume that CoF with wrists is still almost obligatory to actually give decent numbers?

I think you're getting some wires crossed here.

If you are talking about the individual trinket sims, then no, it is only testing one equipped trinket and no legendaries. It's showing the power of each one to give an idea of their solo contributions with no synergies. There are no legendaries in that sim.

The latter part you quoted was specifically about the BM legendary combinations. In combinations with KJ for BM, I had put KJ in trinket1, which is where BTI was. BTI is really powerful for BM. DPS increased significantly after exchanging the CoF that was in base profile with KJ rather than the BTI.

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I've seen quite a few hunters going Furious Swipes for trait 46 rather than Wilderness Expert. That's perfectly fine, and is worth exploring a bit. Here is the sim I'm doing for myself to show what the options result in with 1 target, 3 targets, and 6 targets. Wilderness Expert will depend on whether you have CoF and the wrists, which I do. So, here's what this looks like for me.

45->46 trait sim: Simcraft Source

BM Single Target (45->46 trait options)


BM Three Target (45->46 trait options)


BM Six Target (45->46 trait options)


If you would like to use this on your profile, just change the "armory=" string to your server and character information.

For what it's worth, I plan on going WE for 46 and Swipes for 47, then Spitting Cobras and following that with Focus of the Titans (the one that increases multi-shot damage)

[Deleted]

hm.. i can't get it to do anything. after some corrupt dlls now i get an 0xc000007b error.
Runtimes are ok. Got any other idea?

[Vindicit]

The current BM APL does not change at all when using the boots which makes them undervalued in simc.

Yea Id like to know if there was anything we could do to the actions list in simc to improve the issue with the boots utilization.

[Effinhunter]

Yea Id like to know if there was anything we could do to the actions list in simc to improve the issue with the boots utilization.

Belt/boots is just 9k dps off mantle/belt. What evidence do you guys have that the boots are underutilized in simcraft? Even a coherent argument would be appreciated at this point. If boots caused a complete kc reset, rather than just a partial, I might see an argument. Or if KC had charges, but you still have to work within maximizing kc usages and DB/DF.

Belt/boots make sense as the top boot combo because the boot cd reduction results in more focus usage and thus the focus cost reduction from the belt has good synergy. Why are guys expecting better sim performance out of the boots?

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hm.. i can't get it to do anything. after some corrupt dlls now i get an 0xc000007b error.
Runtimes are ok. Got any other idea?

Let me check dependencies when I get home.

[Effinhunter]

hm.. i can't get it to do anything. after some corrupt dlls now i get an 0xc000007b error.
Runtimes are ok. Got any other idea?

I've updated the latest Simcraft Explorer after realizing some dependencies were not being included in the installer. You should be able to download the updated version:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sim...es/installers/

Let me know if you have any problems

[Deleted]

I've updated the latest Simcraft Explorer after realizing some dependencies were not being included in the installer. You should be able to download the updated version:
Let me know if you have any problems

Well, i could execute the batch now. It generated some folders with many *.simc files.
But now i cant start any of the files with "T19M_X" (e.g. T19M_0 or T19M_22). In the textfile it says the syntax or filename isnt correct.
The files with race (e.g. T19M_MM_blood_elf_1101032_000000000000000000000001nn0000) can be run with simc without any problems.
I checked the path, name and syntax and could not find an error but im not nearly as firm as you are
Also it's the same thing with all other Trinkets as of MM, BM, SV.
Maybe i didn't put "Simcraft nightly" in the right place? i don't realy know what to do with it, except copy it in simc root :P

[Effinhunter]

If you run that .bat script that I mentioned, it generates those and runs them. If it's done, you should have an HTML file. If you sort the folder by Date Modified, it should be at the top. For SV, the file might be called "sv_3t_trinkets.html" or something like that. That's where the result is generated.

The system works by generating all of those .simc files with profiles in them and then feeding them into Simcraft to produce XML output (the .xml files). These are then analyzed by the SER tool that aggregates simcraft results and produces the HTML files. There is a .bat file that you can modify if you ever have to cancel a batch sim. The file is called "T19M_run.bat" and you can see how it is calling simcraft there. If I ever have to stop sims (these take several hours to run), I look at what the last XML file was (e.g. T19M_14.xml, meaning T19M_15.simc should be next), and I edit that .bat file to only run the T19M_15+.simc files. You can do that by deleting T19M_1-14.simc calls or by commenting them out.

In previous expansions, I populated all other gear possibilities and SEA (the armory tool) could allow people to try out different gear upgrades in Simcraft (e.g., with the --trinket1-check with a conditional such as "location=='Nighthold'" for generating all possible nighthold trinkets in the trinket1 slot). However, I have only populated the trinket lists and these are missing anything out of Cathedral because I just haven't gotten to that yet. Since AMR allows people to try out different combinations, I figured this wasn't a good usage of my time this expansion anyway.

[Spiralphoenix]

Is there any way to add a line in the simulation profile that sets the "Num Enemies" option that you change in the simcraft global options? Like for instance something like:

...
main_hand=...
num_targets=3

[Kirbypro]

Is the BM belt + leg simming #2 for real?

[Deleted]

yeah. i execute "T19M_all_aoe_trinkets" and within seconds i get 6 folders with the mentioned *.simc files and some textfiles.
The logfile tells me
"C:\se\scripts\windows\sv_trinkets_3>D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64/D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64\simc.exe ./T19M_0.simc xml=./T19M_0.xml threads=8 iterations=10000 enemy=enemy1 enemy=enemy2 enemy=enemy3"
Syntax error in filename, foldername or volum label is wrong

But only for the ones with T19M_X.

I checked the environment variables like 10 times...
I will reinstall everything and put it in the same folder. maybe that helps?

[Renley]

Is the BM belt + leg simming #2 for real?

I'd sim yourself.

[Effinhunter]

I'd sim yourself.

Oh, I would definitely sim things for yourself. That's why I include the source files.

Belt with high agility sims very high because of the interplay between reducing focus cost during damage increase buffs (the belt) paired with simultaneously doing more damage (high agility and mastery in legs or high agility in kj, for instance). Belt legs and belt kj also benefit from the CoS/Arcway set possibilities at shoulders/wrists which are included in the profiles whenever possible. That being said, be skeptical and sim yourself. That's what the files are for.

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yeah. i execute "T19M_all_aoe_trinkets" and within seconds i get 6 folders with the mentioned *.simc files and some textfiles.
The logfile tells me
"C:\se\scripts\windows\sv_trinkets_3>D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64/D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64\simc.exe ./T19M_0.simc xml=./T19M_0.xml threads=8 iterations=10000 enemy=enemy1 enemy=enemy2 enemy=enemy3"
Syntax error in filename, foldername or volum label is wrong

But only for the ones with T19M_X.

I checked the environment variables like 10 times...
I will reinstall everything and put it in the same folder. maybe that helps?

The environment variable you have wrong is SIMCRAFT_BIN. This should be simply set to "simc" nowadays. In previous expansions, the Simcraft tool had compiled a different executable name for each architecture type. Iirc, it was simc64 for 64 bit Windows and simc or simc32 for 32 bit Windows.

Anyway, from your printout above, it appears to me that you've set the following:

SIMCRAFT_ROOT=D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64
SIMCRAFT_BIN=D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64\simc.exe

What you actually want is:

SIMCRAFT_ROOT=D:\Programme\SimCraft\simc-720-02-win64
SIMCRAFT_BIN=simc.exe

Let me know if you still have problems with it. BTW, depending on what time you have available for simming, you may just want to pace yourself on what you are running. All AoE trinket sims will probably take more than 24 hours on your system. So, keep that in mind.

If you are interested in individual AoE trinket sims, and let's say you only want SV AoE trinket sims, you can find the scripts in that .bat file. These individual simulations scripts can be found in the following locations:

%SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_sv_3t_trinkets.bat
%SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_sv_6t_trinkets.bat

The only thing I really need from these runs would be the resulting HTML files. You can send those to me at effinhunter@gmail.com, if you want. The file should be less than 1MB (it's not the ridiculous simcraft HTML output of 40MB+)

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Is there any way to add a line in the simulation profile that sets the "Num Enemies" option that you change in the simcraft global options? Like for instance something like:

...
main_hand=...
num_targets=3

The way to add more targets in simcraft is really bizarre, but it is what it is. You basically override the enemy keyword and it adds a new target enemy to beat on. So, it looks sort of like this:

armory=us,area+52,Effinhunter

enemy=enemy1
enemy=enemy2
enemy=enemy3

To add 3 enemies to the fight named "enemy1", "enemy2", and "enemy3"

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This a thousand times.

Going from Shoulders+Wrists to Shoulders+Waist says 7k dps upgrade, but after I got the waist my personal simcraft went up by way more, was around 50k iirc.

And in actual combat its even more because fights are shorter and if you, for example, kill a boss with 15-30s cd left on Wildcall it doesnt effect you much with the waist, but man with the wrists its another 50k-100k dps less.

This is true, but with the caveat that these specific item combinations also change with Convergence of Fates equipped. Additionally, the profile currently includes the CoS/Arcway set bonus that procs 3000 crit if the slots are available. This is elevating the non-shoulder and non-wrist profiles. I could remove the shoulder/wrist combination so it doesn't bias the comparison (though the point is that not using shoulders does open you up to the set).

The sims are set to 5m. If you have a fight that you know is exactly 3m 30s, then set the max_time appropriately.

For instance, here's the same source file ran at different times.

1m fight length


2m fight length


2m 30s fight length


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Here is what the sim looks like if I remove the possibility of getting the Arcway/CoS set and just focus on 900/930 gear with tier and Convergence:

BM legendary combos, 5m, no set from Arc/CoS, 10k iterations, Simcraft Source

[Deleted]

Finished MM and BM 3T and sent it to you by mail.

[Effinhunter]

rilf ran the MM 3 target and BM 3 target sims. Updated.

BM, 44 traits, Talents (2202012|3103031), 895/925 gear: Single Target | Three Target
MM, 44 traits, Talents (1103013|1101032a), 895/925 gear: Single Target | Three Target
SV, 44 traits, Talents (3101032), 895/925 gear: Single Target

[Deleted]

I'm not sure which build we should be doing MM 3-6 targets with. High movement build? Single target equivalent?

I play the trickshot build (1313133) all the time cause i got the belt and meme-build gives me cancer.....
I Use it even in high movement fights like elisande hc. I needed some time to get used to it but now its fine.

The MM community seems so be split between trickshot and meme build. If you like, you can create scripts for both builds (3T and 6T) so i can run them (the mm 3t only took 2h, while bm took 5,5h...). After that we can check how much the trinket listing differs and decide if its nessecary to stick with both or just one.

[Khrux]

Some interesting results recently. Surprised to see the ring creeping back up towards the top, I got it the other day(still no belt RIP) and think i'll drop the boots to use Mantle/Ring now.

[Effinhunter]

I play the trickshot build (1313133) all the time cause i got the belt and meme-build gives me cancer.....
I Use it even in high movement fights like elisande hc. I needed some time to get used to it but now its fine.

The MM community seems so be split between trickshot and meme build. If you like, you can create scripts for both builds (3T and 6T) so i can run them (the mm 3t only took 2h, while bm took 5,5h...). After that we can check how much the trinket listing differs and decide if its nessecary to stick with both or just one.

I can certainly just make two sets of scripts for MM as well in 3t and 6t. One for the trickshot build and one for the high movement build. What talents would people like to see in these? I have not put volley in the AoE BM builds and have instead just put the stock build 2202012 across the BM trinket sims. I don't see any reason to focus an all aoe build into these sims as it rarely affects the ranking of trinkets, just the overall dps.

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So, I've modified and added the 3 target and 6 target sims in Simcraft Explorer to use either a AoE build or more of a stock build. The "all_aoe" trinket script now calls the following:

call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_bm_3t_trinkets.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_bm_3t_trinkets_aoe.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_bm_6t_trinkets.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_bm_6t_trinkets_aoe.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_mm_3t_trinkets.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_mm_3t_trinkets_trickshot.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_mm_6t_trinkets.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_mm_6t_trinkets_trickshot.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_sv_3t_trinkets.bat
call %SE_ROOT%\scripts\windows\T19M_sv_6t_trinkets.bat

The baseline 3 and 6 target build is the stock BM build. the baseline 3 and 6 target build is the high movement build.

The *_trickshot.bat and *_aoe.bat scripts are new. For BM, the *_aoe scripts use a Stampede build. For MM, the trickshot build is only slightly different in that it uses Trickshot.

These are in latest download in https://sourceforge.net/projects/sim...les/installers. We just need to run them (each script seems to take about 2-3 hours, depending on computer).

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BTW, I've created some Wiki pages for Simcraft Explorer that will hopefully help anyone trying to run trinket sims to validate what is posted here (or help us with keeping these up to date). You can find the wiki for installation and running the scripts (including how to stop/start sims without losing progress) here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/simcraftexplorer/wiki/Home/

[drohr]

Is any sims taking considiration of having Cornered up for the pet during the initial seconds? When I was using the ring earlier I always had the buff up on each boss pull and did some silly numbers (sadly gets removed fast from pet getting random heals, but would def have an impact in short fights like the 1min sim)

Not sure if there is a good way of siming this.