Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Keoke]

There is this guide on this website called icy-veins . com that answer your question, but for the simple answer barrage multi target and crows single. Just go with barrage man its going to be ok :P.

The problem is Icy-viens doesn't change the instant there is a buff or nerf. All these sims I am seeing is saying that Barrage isn't worth using compared to crows for ST and Volley is better for MT.

In last nights raid I tried Both Barrage and Volley, and Volley Did a million times better in AOE situations than barrage. I was actually breaking a million DPS on trash pulls with Volley and was around maybe 800k dps with Barrage.

Granted, my stats are not ideal, i can't seem to pass 19% mastery so my numbers will definitely be lower compared to others.

[Ashcatchum]

The problem is Icy-viens doesn't change the instant there is a buff or nerf. All these sims I am seeing is saying that Barrage isn't worth using compared to crows for ST and Volley is better for MT.

In last nights raid I tried Both Barrage and Volley, and Volley Did a million times better in AOE situations than barrage. I was actually breaking a million DPS on trash pulls with Volley and was around maybe 800k dps with Barrage.

Granted, my stats are not ideal, i can't seem to pass 19% mastery so my numbers will definitely be lower compared to others.

The guy updates it pretty often, if not instantly so I don't know.... I mean its updated right now, and was probably right when you ask your question, amoc = pure single target, barrage = multitarget, volley = 3+adds stack on top of each other, but by all means use volley for trash if you care so much about your damage there and not the bosses. You're probably using barrage wrong on most boss fights if volley is pulling ahead for you, granted there isn't much of a thought process with volley so that might be the key.

[Azortharion]

It's updated every day, genius.

Just another example of people drawing wrong conclusions from sims alone. Yawn.

[moonrakerx]

Yeah I'm having a hard time thinking of a spot where volley would outperform barrage besides the end of the xavius fight? Adds aren't up frequently enough ...unless you cheeses ichors. Could be wrong though.

[Azortharion]

Which is why you obviously cannot take the sims at face value. They don't mean anything without the right interpretation.

[Keoke]

It's updated every day, genius.

Just another example of people drawing wrong conclusions from sims alone. Yawn.

I'm 100% brand new to sims, looked at them for the first time the day before yesterday, and assumed all the sims were done on a fight like Patchwork because of the first page of simulationcraft.


Also, I had no idea icy-veins kept up like that, I didn't mean to upset you.


Even though the smart ass remarks were completely not needed, I appreciate the responses anyway, so thanks again!

[BendakWoW]

P.S. What PPM are you currently seeing in Bloodthirsty Instinct in your logs?

On single target, 2.2-2.4 ppm. On fights with adds, more in the 2.8 ppm range.

Unless I am misunderstanding the simulation craft results, I am getting 5.2 ppm in the sims. A whole lot of refreshes.

[Azortharion]

I'm 100% brand new to sims, looked at them for the first time the day before yesterday, and assumed all the sims were done on a fight like Patchwork because of the first page of simulationcraft.


Also, I had no idea icy-veins kept up like that, I didn't mean to upset you.


Even though the smart ass remarks were completely not needed, I appreciate the responses anyway, so thanks again!

They are done on Patchwerk fights, sometimes with multiple targets. Another reason why they cannot be taken at face value.

[Azortharion]

30-35% is definitely too low. If you look at some logs, 40-50% is more realistic.

[Deleted]

Here is the DPE I'm seeing while I'm doing spec comparisons. Unfortunately, I realized something about the sims I was running that I wanted to change after many of them were done. So, unfortunately, no more sim results until after raid. However, here is where Flanking Strike positions itself in DPE after the hotfix.

"IMAGE OF THE DPE CHART FOR SURVIVAL THAT I CAN'T POST DUE TO BEING NEW ON THE FORUM"

I'm not an expert in Simulation craft. But I am pretty sure that Simcraft is only taking into account the damage part of the hunter in that DPE chart, and not merging the pet. I went through my logs from yesterday, on which flanking strike ended up on an avarage around 360k per execute (avarage on all EN bosses on heroic).

It was a good amount above the DPE of Throwing axes, not taking into account the double mongoose proc chance that should still put it above Throwing axes on the priority atleast. Also on several bosses it wasn't too far behind the DPE of Lacerate either, so if you havn't been able to scrape all mastery off of your gear I'd guess it could end up on par/slightly above lacarate on priority aswell taking the double mongoose charge proc chance into account.

Also, quick question, as I'm kind of new to simcraft. Is the Fury of the eagles DPE calculated as the total amount of damage on the execute divided by the number of GCD that would have been fit into the channel time of it?

[Maxie]

Can anyone tell me how http://www.wowhead.com/item=137329/f...far&bonus=1826 is on fights where you can actually make use of the on use effect?

I just got a 670 one, obviously useless on single target fights but I guess it might have a use in multi target raid encounters as MM or as BM in mythic+?

[Effinhunter]

I'm not an expert in Simulation craft. But I am pretty sure that Simcraft is only taking into account the damage part of the hunter in that DPE chart, and not merging the pet. I went through my logs from yesterday, on which flanking strike ended up on an avarage around 360k per execute (avarage on all EN bosses on heroic).

It was a good amount above the DPE of Throwing axes, not taking into account the double mongoose proc chance that should still put it above Throwing axes on the priority atleast. Also on several bosses it wasn't too far behind the DPE of Lacerate either, so if you havn't been able to scrape all mastery off of your gear I'd guess it could end up on par/slightly above lacarate on priority aswell taking the double mongoose charge proc chance into account.

Also, quick question, as I'm kind of new to simcraft. Is the Fury of the eagles DPE calculated as the total amount of damage on the execute divided by the number of GCD that would have been fit into the channel time of it?

It looks to be aggregating pet damage (this is common in simcraft because of effects like Kill Command which are essentially all about pet damage for hunters). The profile is simply an 840/870 profile that we have been working with for a couple of months now.



As far as stats go, it is not running high mastery.



Averages are generally calculated as total amount of damage divided by the actual executions of the ability. GCD does not factor into it. DPE is literally "Damage Per Execute", not "Damage per GCD slot". DPE does not necessarily show the priority that abilities should be used as resource cost and channel time can be big factors. You would need to look at a different metric for that kind of information, and generally, while we're working on an APL, we're using more than just DPE to test priority changes in the APL.

- - - Updated - - -

Can anyone tell me how http://www.wowhead.com/item=137329/f...far&bonus=1826 is on fights where you can actually make use of the on use effect?

I just got a 670 one, obviously useless on single target fights but I guess it might have a use in multi target raid encounters as MM or as BM in mythic+?

I went over the math on this one here (look at paragraph at the end):

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42199151

It could have been a soul capacitor-type amazing, but the damage cap makes it utterly useless. If you see a trinket without a cap on it, then we'd be in business.

[Deleted]

It looks to be aggregating pet damage (this is common in simcraft because of effects like Kill Command which are essentially all about pet damage for hunters). The profile is simply an 840/870 profile that we have been working with for a couple of months now.

Averages are generally calculated as total amount of damage divided by the actual executions of the ability. GCD does not factor into it. DPE is literally "Damage Per Execute", not "Damage per GCD slot". DPE does not necessarily show the priority that abilities should be used as resource cost and channel time can be big factors. You would need to look at a different metric for that kind of information, and generally, while we're working on an APL, we're using more than just DPE to test priority changes in the APL.

Ok, The reason I was asking regarding the GCD part was because all other spells that are dots or partially dots seemed to count as the total damage for one push of the button. One execute of that ability that is. Fury of the Eagle was the only spell not following that logic so I guess I got confused by it.

Anyhow, I know the APL is not set by the DPE. But my experience since the patch after going through logs etc are that Flanking strike could be prioritized higher than atleast throwing axes. The Focus cost might be an issue as you stated, but I'm trying something out there that I can get back to

Thanks for the answer btw!

[Effinhunter]

If you find a better APL, please feel free to post it. I haven't been playing sv this expansion, so I can tweak things here and there in sims but we could really use a SV champion to check the module for correctness.

[BendakWoW]

Latest sim craft build has Bloodthirsty Instinct a bit more down to earth. Lost about 7k dps on my personal sim (as BM).

[satimy]

Do you have to reinstall simcraft everytime theres a new build?

[Kwaai]

Do you have to reinstall simcraft everytime theres a new build?

It's honestly easier to just clone the git repo and pull>make before you run it. If you're just downloading from the site, yes.

[Chickensoup23]

Question for you guys: 830 Devilsaur's Bite vs 850 Serpentrix. I feel like Serpentrix sucks, but is it worse than something 20 ilvls under it? Sims are giving me an trouble. Thanks.

[Thatos]

I was wondering if you're on US server? and If so do you have like, at max 15-20 minutes to help me out? I'm going over parses and logs and practicing my rotation for MM and I definitely don't think i'm performing as well as I should. (this could be because I hate the spec but I hope that's besides the point) Anyways if you're ever free would love to hear back from you have a good day

[Deleted]

Question for you guys: 830 Devilsaur's Bite vs 850 Serpentrix. I feel like Serpentrix sucks, but is it worse than something 20 ilvls under it? Sims are giving me an trouble. Thanks.

Serpentix is a solid stat stick, the proc itself has problems, doesn't seem to scale with ilvl (of the trinket itself) but it's still doing like ~1,5-2% dmg on my toon. I'd pick +20 ilvl here. The Serpent seems to have lower max range than you though, so it might not attack @ 40y+ (or 49y+ etc.) either that or it bugs out from time to time.